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Australian tourism head attacks scientists for publishing science on coral bleaching.

Here is #6 repeated. Maybe he just knows more than you do.

I have published numerous scientific papers showing that much of the “science” claiming damage to the reef is either plain wrong or greatly exaggerated. As just one example, coral growth rates that have supposedly collapsed along the reef have, if anything, increased slightly.
Reefs that are supposedly smothered by dredging sediment actually contain great coral. And mass bleaching events along the reef that supposedly serve as evidence of permanent human-caused devastation are almost certainly completely natural and even cyclical.
These allegedly major catastrophic effects that recent science says were almost unknown before the 1980s are mainly the result of a simple fact: large-scale marine science did not get started on the reef until the 1970s.
By a decade later, studies of the reef had exploded, along with the number of marine biologists doing them. What all these scientists lacked, however, was historical perspective. There are almost no records of earlier eras to compare with current conditions. Thus, for many scientists studying reef problems, the results are unprecedented, and almost always seen as catastrophic and even world-threatening.
The only problem is that it isn’t so. The Great Barrier Reef is in fact in excellent condition. It certainly goes through periods of destruction where huge areas of coral are killed from hurricanes, starfish plagues and coral bleaching. However, it largely regrows within a decade to its former glory. Some parts of the southern reef, for example, have seen a tripling of coral in six years after they were devastated by a particularly severe cyclone.
Reefs have similarities to Australian forests, which require periodic bushfires. It looks terrible after the bushfire, but the forests always regrow. The ecosystem has evolved with these cycles of death and regrowth.

He is either a liar or an idiot. He is certainly no scientist. Where is his proof that massive beaching events have happened before 1988? Just saying that science was not paying attention before that is not proof. His entire "theory" is based on ZERO evidence. That is not science and coral is not a tree either. There is conclusive proof that bleaching and reef death is caused by high water temperatures. To say it is not related to AGW is just plain lying.
 
He is either a liar or an idiot. He is certainly no scientist. Where is his proof that massive beaching events have happened before 1988? Just saying that science was not paying attention before that is not proof. His entire "theory" is based on ZERO evidence. That is not science and coral is not a tree either. There is conclusive proof that bleaching and reef death is caused by high water temperatures. To say it is not related to AGW is just plain lying.
The exact same argument could be applied to the scientist who say the bleaching is an unusual event.
Where is his proof that massive beaching events have NOT happened before 1988?
"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
There are some who have suggested that the unusually low tides, stressed the coral buy exposure to air.
Falling Sea Level: The Critical Factor in 2016 Great Barrier Reef Bleaching!
In contrast in Coral Mortality Induced by the 2015–2016 El-Nin?o in Indonesia: The Effect Of Rapid Sea Level Fall by Ampou 2017, Indonesian biologists had reported that a drop in sea level had bleached the upper 15 cm of the reefs before temperatures had reached NOAA’s Coral Reef Watch bleaching thresholds.
 
The exact same argument could be applied to the scientist who say the bleaching is an unusual event.
Where is his proof that massive beaching events have NOT happened before 1988?
"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
There are some who have suggested that the unusually low tides, stressed the coral buy exposure to air.
Falling Sea Level: The Critical Factor in 2016 Great Barrier Reef Bleaching!

LOL Sea levels are rising not falling and bleaching events are getting larger and more prevalent with every passing year. Temporary drops due to WEATHER patterns have not changed the trajectory or the fact that seas are higher than they have ever been in 1000's of years. The fact that coral organisms cannot survive above a critical temperature is also not in doubt so any previous bleaching events would have to have been caused by high water temperatures that did not exist 50 years ago.

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https://www.snopes.com/nasa-data-global-warming/

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He is either a liar or an idiot. He is certainly no scientist. Where is his proof that massive beaching events have happened before 1988? Just saying that science was not paying attention before that is not proof. His entire "theory" is based on ZERO evidence. That is not science and coral is not a tree either. There is conclusive proof that bleaching and reef death is caused by high water temperatures. To say it is not related to AGW is just plain lying.

Ah. The certainty of ignorance.

Boer, M., Marchant, R., and Ridd, P. (2014) Should the pre-1986 coral cover record be used to determine system-wide long-term trends for the Great barrier Reef? Indian Journal of Geo-Marine Sciences, 43 (9). pp. 1626-1649.
Ridd, Peter V., da Silva, Eduardo Teixeira, and Stieglitz, Thomas (2013) Have coral calcification rates slowed in the last twenty years? Marine Geology, 346. pp. 392-399
 
Yes — Coral calcification rates have decreased in the last twenty-five years!

"Outermost bands of corals were under-estimated in De'ath et al. (2009), and we have identified the cause of this problem as incomplete formation of some of the outermost bands. Correcting for this problem reduces our previous estimate of the decline in calcification over the period 1990–2005 from 14.2% to 11.4%. The claim that ontogenic effects account for part of the observed decline in calcification is false since (1) the hypothesised ontogenic effect was not present in colonies pre-1985, and (2) the decline in calcification is observable in the short cores that largely determine the decline, and are not subject to ontogenic effects. The adjusted decline of 11.4% (0.76% yr− 1) remains high and suggests a bleak future for corals of the GBR due to climate change."

FYI:

Boer, M., Marchant, R., and Ridd, P. (2014) Should the pre-1986 coral cover record be used to determine system-wide long-term trends for the Great barrier Reef? Indian Journal of Geo-Marine Sciences, 43 (9). pp. 1626-1649.

 
He is either a liar or an idiot. He is certainly no scientist. Where is his proof that massive beaching events have happened before 1988? Just saying that science was not paying attention before that is not proof. His entire "theory" is based on ZERO evidence. That is not science and coral is not a tree either. There is conclusive proof that bleaching and reef death is caused by high water temperatures. To say it is not related to AGW is just plain lying.

To say that it is related to AGW is plain lying.

To say that we don't know (as the scientist in question does) is correct.
 
LOL Sea levels are rising not falling and bleaching events are getting larger and more prevalent with every passing year. Temporary drops due to WEATHER patterns have not changed the trajectory or the fact that seas are higher than they have ever been in 1000's of years. The fact that coral organisms cannot survive above a critical temperature is also not in doubt so any previous bleaching events would have to have been caused by high water temperatures that did not exist 50 years ago.


https://www.snopes.com/nasa-data-global-warming/
The El Nino cause a massive bulge of water in the central Pacific, which left other areas lower than normal.
Which is why there are peer reviewed articles about the bleaching from low tide levels.
https://www.biogeosciences.net/14/817/2017/
 
Ah. The certainty of ignorance.

Boer, M., Marchant, R., and Ridd, P. (2014) Should the pre-1986 coral cover record be used to determine system-wide long-term trends for the Great barrier Reef? Indian Journal of Geo-Marine Sciences, 43 (9). pp. 1626-1649.
Ridd, Peter V., da Silva, Eduardo Teixeira, and Stieglitz, Thomas (2013) Have coral calcification rates slowed in the last twenty years? Marine Geology, 346. pp. 392-399

There is no disputing that rising sea temperatures are the cause of increased bleaching and death of corals. Your ignorance of that fact is noted.

In 2005, the U.S. lost half of its coral reefs in the Caribbean in one year due to a massive bleaching event. The warm waters centered around the northern Antilles near the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico expanded southward. Comparison of satellite data from the previous 20 years confirmed that thermal stress from the 2005 event was greater than the previous 20 years combined.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/coral_bleach.html
 
The El Nino cause a massive bulge of water in the central Pacific, which left other areas lower than normal.
Which is why there are peer reviewed articles about the bleaching from low tide levels.
https://www.biogeosciences.net/14/817/2017/

Yet the bleaching of the reef corresponds exactly with the highest water temperatures in those areas.
 
Yet the bleaching of the reef corresponds exactly with the highest water temperatures in those areas.
If you have the water temperatures, perhaps you also have the water levels,
Corals do not do well out of water, and the air gets a lot hotter than the water.
 
To say that it is related to AGW is plain lying.

To say that we don't know (as the scientist in question does) is correct.

Sea temperature rise is caused by AGW, high water temperatures cause coral bleaching. What are you disputing?
 
If you have the water temperatures, perhaps you also have the water levels,
Corals do not do well out of water, and the air gets a lot hotter than the water.

You are talking about weather not climate and the fact that sea temperatures are rising globally is not in question. Could low tides have made the bleaching event even worse? Of course but the mechanism was water temperature and that does not bode well for the future of these reefs.
 
Sea temperature rise is caused by AGW, high water temperatures cause coral bleaching. What are you disputing?

1, That you know why corals bleach.

2, That this has never happened before.

3, That it is significant problem given that the corals get better quickly.
 
You are talking about weather not climate and the fact that sea temperatures are rising globally is not in question. Could low tides have made the bleaching event even worse? Of course but the mechanism was water temperature and that does not bode well for the future of these reefs.
And you are trying to link what could well be a weather event (El Nino) as some sort of climate event.

The paper was not discussing a simple low tide, but a sustained low sea level event.
The Corals could have been out of the water for months.
You have to ask yourself, what is more stressful, being in a room that is too warm, or a room without
oxygen? The Corals in the air, are like you or I being in a room without oxygen.
 
There is no disputing that rising sea temperatures are the cause of increased bleaching and death of corals.

There's actually quite a bit of disputing it. The premise of this thread was that the debate was between scientists and the Australian Tourism Board. That has been decisively refuted.
 
Coral being out of the water will also cause bleaching, what are you disputing?
and the PSMSL shows the sea level in the area has been falling.
http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/rlr.monthly.data/953.rlrdata

That link is useless and it is about weather not climate. Locally falling sea levels do not change the fact the rising sea temperatures are the cause of bleaching in reefs around the world. Do you admit that rising sea temperature are the result of AGW?
 
There's actually quite a bit of disputing it. The premise of this thread was that the debate was between scientists and the Australian Tourism Board. That has been decisively refuted.

LOL No there is not. It is proven scientific fact that high water temperature cause bleaching. Disputes over weather patterns are nothing but a diversion.
 
That link is useless and it is about weather not climate. Locally falling sea levels do not change the fact the rising sea temperatures are the cause of bleaching in reefs around the world. Do you admit that rising sea temperature are the result of AGW?
Actually there is only a marginal link between the raising air temperature and and CO2 from Human activity.
Consider the Science, doubling the CO2 level should force the troposphere system to increase by
about 1.1 C, so the current 406 ppm of CO2 means the increase should have caused 1.58 X ln(406/280)=.587C,
That is the limit of the science, the rest of the predicted amplified feedback is speculation.
The atmosphere would have to warm first, for the warming to be a result of AGW.

lower sea levels, on the other hand could cause the shallows to warm very quickly,
but it still would not do the damage that no water would cause.
 
Actually there is only a marginal link between the raising air temperature and and CO2 from Human activity.
Consider the Science, doubling the CO2 level should force the troposphere system to increase by
about 1.1 C, so the current 406 ppm of CO2 means the increase should have caused 1.58 X ln(406/280)=.587C,
That is the limit of the science, the rest of the predicted amplified feedback is speculation.
The atmosphere would have to warm first, for the warming to be a result of AGW.

lower sea levels, on the other hand could cause the shallows to warm very quickly,
but it still would not do the damage that no water would cause.

LOL 93% of the heat from AGW is going into the oceans. That bolded comment is profoundly untrue.

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oceanheatadjustedocean2logo.png
 
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Correlation is not causation.
It could just as easily be the results of our successful particulate pollution program,
clearing the skies and allowing in more short wavelength light.
People want to blame water temperatures, but Coral can take warmer water much better
than it can take no water.
 
Correlation is not causation.
It could just as easily be the results of our successful particulate pollution program,
clearing the skies and allowing in more short wavelength light.
People want to blame water temperatures, but Coral can take warmer water much better
than it can take no water.

Bla bla bla. It is all just a coincidence and we don't know anything. Is there no shame in you people? Are you really all that clueless that you think we can release millions of years of sequestered carbon in a few hundred years and not dramatically affect climate?
They blame water temperatures because they correlate with bleaching and have been proven to cause bleaching. Weather patterns that cause lower water levels are not the problem. Higher and higher water temps certainly are. We cannot change weather patterns like we can change carbon emissions. I'm so tired of the deflection from deniers.
 
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LOL No there is not. It is proven scientific fact that high water temperature cause bleaching. Disputes over weather patterns are nothing but a diversion.

I will cease disturbing your blissful ignorance.
 
Bla bla bla. It is all just a coincidence and we don't know anything. Is there no shame in you people? Are you really all that clueless that you think we can release millions of years of sequestered carbon in a few hundred years and not dramatically affect climate?
They blame water temperatures because they correlate with bleaching and have been proven to cause bleaching. Weather patterns that cause lower water levels are not the problem. Higher and higher water temps certainly are. We cannot change weather patterns like we can change carbon emissions. I'm so tired of the deflection from deniers.
You causally say that lower water levels are not the problem,
how do you know, can you cite a peer reviewed source
saying lower water levels are not the problem?
I cited one saying lower water level caused by the El Nino were one of the causes.
That coral will die from prolonged removal from water, is a scientific fact.
 
You causally say that lower water levels are not the problem,
how do you know, can you cite a peer reviewed source
saying lower water levels are not the problem?
I cited one saying lower water level caused by the El Nino were one of the causes.
That coral will die from prolonged removal from water, is a scientific fact.

OK then explain what we can do about low water levels and why it is important. Meanwhile in 2005 half the coral reefs in the Caribbean bleached from high water temps due to AGW.

Thermal stress during the 2005 event exceeded any observed from the Caribbean in the prior 20 years, and regionally-averaged temperatures were the warmest in over 150 years. Comparison of satellite data against field surveys demonstrated a significant predictive relationship between accumulated heat stress (measured using NOAA Coral Reef Watch's Degree Heating Weeks) and bleaching intensity. This severe, widespread bleaching and mortality will undoubtedly have long-term consequences for reef ecosystems and suggests a troubled future for tropical marine ecosystems under a warming climate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2981599/
 
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