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The Dutch Plan to Build a Huge Multi-National Offshore Wind Farm

Visbek

Visbek

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TenneT, a major Dutch utility, plans to build a huge offshore wind farm in the North Sea. Offshore winds are more powerful and consistent than most land-based turbines.

The plan is to build a small man-made island in the center of the wind farm. The turbines will generate AC power, which is converted to DC at the island, and then distributed to nations around the North Sea -- UK, Belgium, Germany, Denmark and Norway. It could generate up to 30gwh, which is enough power for 21 million homes.

There are obviously lots of challenges, mostly legal and economic. But it could be a big step for renewables in Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-dutch-plan-vast-windfarm-island-in-north-sea
 
Visbek said:
TenneT, a major Dutch utility, plans to build a huge offshore wind farm in the North Sea. Offshore winds are more powerful and consistent than most land-based turbines.

The plan is to build a small man-made island in the center of the wind farm. The turbines will generate AC power, which is converted to DC at the island, and then distributed to nations around the North Sea -- UK, Belgium, Germany, Denmark and Norway. It could generate up to 30gwh, which is enough power for 21 million homes.

There are obviously lots of challenges, mostly legal and economic. But it could be a big step for renewables in Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-dutch-plan-vast-windfarm-island-in-north-sea
Click to expand...

I have to wonder when they say thing like,
“It’s going to be expensive compared to what they produce locally [from windfarms nearer the coast],”
up front, how much the power produced will cost?
 
longview said:
I have to wonder when they say thing like,
“It’s going to be expensive compared to what they produce locally [from windfarms nearer the coast],”
up front, how much the power produced will cost?
Click to expand...
As the article points out: Offshore farms near the coast are already nearly maxed out. The plan is to hold down costs via economies of scale. However, almost all of the costs should be up-front, as the turbines don't use any sort of fuel, and don't produce waste.

It could certainly turn out to be expensive. Presumably they will figure out more of the economic details as the plan develops.
 
Visbek said:
TenneT, a major Dutch utility, plans to build a huge offshore wind farm in the North Sea. Offshore winds are more powerful and consistent than most land-based turbines.

The plan is to build a small man-made island in the center of the wind farm. The turbines will generate AC power, which is converted to DC at the island, and then distributed to nations around the North Sea -- UK, Belgium, Germany, Denmark and Norway. It could generate up to 30gwh, which is enough power for 21 million homes.

There are obviously lots of challenges, mostly legal and economic. But it could be a big step for renewables in Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-dutch-plan-vast-windfarm-island-in-north-sea
Click to expand...

Interesting. Sounds cool. I couldn’t find anything on the economics of it. If it can get by without subsidies, it would be a good idea.
 
joG said:
Interesting. Sounds cool. I couldn’t find anything on the economics of it. If it can get by without subsidies, it would be a good idea.
Click to expand...

No chance in hell it gets done without subsidies.
 
Visbek said:
TenneT, a major Dutch utility, plans to build a huge offshore wind farm in the North Sea. Offshore winds are more powerful and consistent than most land-based turbines.

The plan is to build a small man-made island in the center of the wind farm. The turbines will generate AC power, which is converted to DC at the island, and then distributed to nations around the North Sea -- UK, Belgium, Germany, Denmark and Norway. It could generate up to 30gwh, which is enough power for 21 million homes.

There are obviously lots of challenges, mostly legal and economic. But it could be a big step for renewables in Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-dutch-plan-vast-windfarm-island-in-north-sea
Click to expand...

Environmental issues? Please! If there is enough money to be made and pocketed the project will get done. Build an island and disrupt the natural ocean floor, current flow and breeding grounds, phift! Silly human, none of that matters.
 
I love the deniers. Wonder when the horseless carriage was coming into being if there Grandfathers said....what about the stables and the jobs of picking up horse crap. :bs:bs:bs:bs
 
longview said:
I have to wonder when they say thing like,
“It’s going to be expensive compared to what they produce locally [from windfarms nearer the coast],”
up front, how much the power produced will cost?
Click to expand...

The biggest cost is transportation.
They are going to have to have some kind of capataors or batteries to pass the energy generated along.
Even that though you are going to lose a % of energy just in that.

Next is maintainablility. Being out in the North Sea salt water is going to wreak havoc on those turbines.
Not to mention boating out to fix them etc ...
 
Like any energy plan it's going to start expensive and then become more cost effective over time. The input cost is the main reason why fossil fuel economies don't want to make the conversion, so they are waiting for someone else to take the fall and sort out the bugs. Then based on the results they may acquire the tech and implement it more cheaply. Glad to see that the Dutch have the guts to make this attempt. They are at least partly securing their long-term energy economy by reducing the cost of domestic power and reducing reliance on dwindling fossil fuels.
 
Visbek said:
As the article points out: Offshore farms near the coast are already nearly maxed out. The plan is to hold down costs via economies of scale. However, almost all of the costs should be up-front, as the turbines don't use any sort of fuel, and don't produce waste.

It could certainly turn out to be expensive. Presumably they will figure out more of the economic details as the plan develops.
Click to expand...
The power is still not free, the up front and maintenance cost will be applied to each Kwh generated.
 
longview said:
The power is still not free, the up front and maintenance cost will be applied to each Kwh generated.
Click to expand...
I did not say free. However, the costs to maintain a wind farm are very small compared to a generation that needs a constant stream of fuel, and produces a constant stream of waste.
 
RetiredUSN said:
They are already paying dearly a gallon for fuel, so what's another 20-50 cents a gallon for fuel tax. :)
Click to expand...

Yep.

At 0.766 euros per liter tax, and the current exchange rate, they currently pay $3.48 per gallon tax on gasoline.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Yep.

At 0.766 euros per liter tax, and the current exchange rate, they currently pay $3.48 per gallon tax on gasoline.
Click to expand...

And yet we spend roughly the same on gasoline per capita as Americans because our commutes are shorter and our cars are more economical.
 
Visbek said:
TenneT, a major Dutch utility, plans to build a huge offshore wind farm in the North Sea. Offshore winds are more powerful and consistent than most land-based turbines.

The plan is to build a small man-made island in the center of the wind farm. The turbines will generate AC power, which is converted to DC at the island, and then distributed to nations around the North Sea -- UK, Belgium, Germany, Denmark and Norway. It could generate up to 30gwh, which is enough power for 21 million homes.

There are obviously lots of challenges, mostly legal and economic. But it could be a big step for renewables in Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-dutch-plan-vast-windfarm-island-in-north-sea
Click to expand...

Keeping in mind that 4 transformers to supply 3 million homes worth of electricity across only the English Channel currently costs $1.5 Billion dollars:

Pardon Our Interruption

http://utilitiesnetwork.energy-busi...r-2gw-england-france-hvdc-link-081217-5997484


SPENDY
 
Surface Detail said:
And yet we spend roughly the same on gasoline per capita as Americans because our commutes are shorter and our cars are more economical.
Click to expand...

So with 0.766 euros of tax per liter, what do you generally pay per liter? As for your commute, I agree. I know people who commute over 100 km, 200 km daily to work and back.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Yes, and it's also a HVDC network.

Should be a sweet setup when done, though I disagree with using wind power.
Click to expand...

Someone will need to bring a thick wallet.

I am reading some interesting things on the USA flubbing on HVDC, mostly because our government is a wreck.
 
Visbek said:
TenneT, a major Dutch utility, plans to build a huge offshore wind farm in the North Sea. Offshore winds are more powerful and consistent than most land-based turbines.

The plan is to build a small man-made island in the center of the wind farm. The turbines will generate AC power, which is converted to DC at the island, and then distributed to nations around the North Sea -- UK, Belgium, Germany, Denmark and Norway. It could generate up to 30gwh, which is enough power for 21 million homes.

There are obviously lots of challenges, mostly legal and economic. But it could be a big step for renewables in Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-dutch-plan-vast-windfarm-island-in-north-sea
Click to expand...

30GW.

1.5 Billion Euros. £1.31 Billion.

At 4.85p/kWh (the price you get for supplying to the grid) that's 145.5 billion pence per hour. That's £1.455 billion per hour when the wind is blowing. Repaying in less than an hour.

I certainly hope so.

I can't see it. Just too good.
 
Tim the plumber said:

30GW.

1.5 Billion Euros. £1.31 Billion.

At 4.85p/kWh (the price you get for supplying to the grid) that's 145.5 billion pence per hour. That's £1.455 billion per hour when the wind is blowing. Repaying in less than an hour.

I certainly hope so.

I can't see it. Just too good.
Click to expand...
I think the 1.5 Billion Euros, was only for building the island, and included no wind turbines or transport infrastructure.
 
Visbek said:
I did not say free. However, the costs to maintain a wind farm are very small compared to a generation that needs a constant stream of fuel, and produces a constant stream of waste.
Click to expand...
Wind energy has some hidden costs, like the need for a backup plant, and the maintenance costs have been higher than expected
and turbine life shorter.
Even the proponents claim a higher cost.
https://theconversation.com/how-much-does-wind-energy-cost-debunking-the-myths-43710
Recent experience shows that new wind farms require A$80-90 per MWh.
Click to expand...
that is about $.062 per Kwh, most utilities need a markup of at least $.05 to cover their costs,
so that would place the pre tax rate at $.112 per Kwh.
This does not count the maintenance costs of the backup power plants that must be kept ready to fill in the wind shortfalls.
 
longview said:
Wind energy has some hidden costs, like the need for a backup plant, and the maintenance costs have been higher than expected
and turbine life shorter.
Even the proponents claim a higher cost.
https://theconversation.com/how-much-does-wind-energy-cost-debunking-the-myths-43710

that is about $.062 per Kwh, most utilities need a markup of at least $.05 to cover their costs,
so that would place the pre tax rate at $.112 per Kwh.
This does not count the maintenance costs of the backup power plants that must be kept ready to fill in the wind shortfalls.
Click to expand...

If they were able to produce it at that cost it would already be the primary method.
 
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