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The Dutch Plan to Build a Huge Multi-National Offshore Wind Farm

Tim the plumber said:
If they were able to produce it at that cost it would already be the primary method.
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As I said that was pro wind article, I am sure their numbers were the best they could hope for.
I have heard that some combined cycle natural gas plants
can produce electricity at about $0.02 per Kwh.
I am not convinced that wind does not have a place, but I think large projects like this
tend to be plans the extract taxpayer funds.
 
Interesting to see if it works. If they pull it off it could be a really great step forward.
 
Tim the plumber said:

30GW.

1.5 Billion Euros. £1.31 Billion.

At 4.85p/kWh (the price you get for supplying to the grid) that's 145.5 billion pence per hour. That's £1.455 billion per hour when the wind is blowing. Repaying in less than an hour.

I certainly hope so.

I can't see it. Just too good.
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But its worth the investment to see if it works. Renewable energy is an arena where cost should be relative. If it is proven reliable, and clean, and sustainable...even at a massive cost...there should be a way to absorb that. But first we have to see if it works.
 
longview said:
As I said that was pro wind article, I am sure their numbers were the best they could hope for.
I have heard that some combined cycle natural gas plants
can produce electricity at about $0.02 per Kwh.
I am not convinced that wind does not have a place, but I think large projects like this
tend to be plans the extract taxpayer funds.
Click to expand...

That's presumably when they are selling or using the heat and the electricity is a byproduct??
 
VanceMack said:
But its worth the investment to see if it works. Renewable energy is an arena where cost should be relative. If it is proven reliable, and clean, and sustainable...even at a massive cost...there should be a way to absorb that. But first we have to see if it works.
Click to expand...

You don't need billions to test it.
 
VanceMack said:
But its worth the investment to see if it works. Renewable energy is an arena where cost should be relative. If it is proven reliable, and clean, and sustainable...even at a massive cost...there should be a way to absorb that. But first we have to see if it works.
Click to expand...

As it happens I have an idea for a different type of wind turbine that I am floundering around at trying to get going.

I need some finance and lots of other things.

Such as somebody to do crowd funding.... a test site... loads of other things...

Do you have any of those???
 
Tim the plumber said:
You don't need billions to test it.
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Large scale...I think you do. It wont be the worst thing people have wasted money on if it fails and if it succeeds, it can provide a real and viable model for clean energy production worldwide.
 
Tim the plumber said:
As it happens I have an idea for a different type of wind turbine that I am floundering around at trying to get going.

I need some finance and lots of other things.

Such as somebody to do crowd funding.... a test site... loads of other things...

Do you have any of those???
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I think that would be an appropriate thing for energy companies to fund...independent research experimentation.
 
Tim the plumber said:
As it happens I have an idea for a different type of wind turbine that I am floundering around at trying to get going.

I need some finance and lots of other things.

Such as somebody to do crowd funding.... a test site... loads of other things...

Do you have any of those???
Click to expand...

Tim, since the last time we talked about your idea, I remembered the US Department of Energy, has such a program.
https://www.netl.doe.gov/File Library/Business/USPGuide.pdf
UNSOLICITED PROPOSALS are a way for independent inventors to get funding.
I think the basic fundamental research grant was in the $200K range, but it has been a few years.
 
Tim the plumber said:

30GW.

1.5 Billion Euros. £1.31 Billion.

At 4.85p/kWh (the price you get for supplying to the grid) that's 145.5 billion pence per hour. That's £1.455 billion per hour when the wind is blowing. Repaying in less than an hour.

I certainly hope so.

I can't see it. Just too good.
Click to expand...

In Germany, they are now sometimes having to PAY customers to use electricity.

Their wind turbines and solar panels sometimes generate so much electricity that some months they have a large surplus. Battery technology is not good enough yet to store all that extra electricity. So the surplus causes the price to go NEGATIVE, meaning they actually pay their customers to take all that energy off their hands. Nice problem to have.

Germany Made So Much Energy It Paid People to Use Electricity | Fortune

But we are going to Make America Great Again by going back to coal, right?
 
ataraxia said:
In Germany, they are now sometimes having to PAY customers to use electricity.

Their wind turbines and solar panels sometimes generate so much electricity that some months they have a large surplus. Battery technology is not good enough yet to store all that extra electricity. So the surplus causes the price to go NEGATIVE, meaning they actually pay their customers to take all that energy off their hands. Nice problem to have.

Germany Made So Much Energy It Paid People to Use Electricity | Fortune

But we are going to Make America Great Again by going back to coal, right?
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Should this situation happen as a general rule, there being too much electricity, then there are ways of using it to make fuel, gasoline. This I expect will result in very cheap power of every sort.
 
Tim the plumber said:
Should this situation happen as a general rule, there being too much electricity, then there are ways of using it to make fuel, gasoline. This I expect will result in very cheap power of every sort.
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Why would we need gasoline anymore?

If you have that much extra electricity, you just sell more electric cars. You don't need gasoline. Again, the Europeans are way ahead of us on this. Here are some charts on per capita electric vehicle use. As always, the US is dead last among developed nations. And that's just the US average. California is shown separately, which has a much higher amount than the US average, but gets averaged into it. If you take California out, that total US average number is even lower than what's on the graph:

electric.jpg

We just need to go back to coal and steam powered automobile vehicles to Make America Great Again. It's all this clean energy nonsense and investment that's made us not that great, right?
 
Tim the plumber said:
As in you are not going to be involved in it. You have no wish to push such a thing using your time effort and money.
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:lamo

Relax.

Someone in Holland think its a good enough idea to give it a whack. I think it will be interesting to see how it works out. As for the private entrepeneural investment...again...I think thats a great idea.
 
ataraxia said:
Why would we need gasoline anymore?

If you have that much extra electricity, you just sell more electric cars. You don't need gasoline. Again, the Europeans are way ahead of us on this. Here are some charts on per capita electric vehicle use. As always, the US is dead last among developed nations. And that's just the US average. California is shown separately, which has a much higher amount than the US average, but gets averaged into it. If you take California out, that total US average number is even lower than what's on the graph:

View attachment 67226771

We just need to go back to coal and steam powered automobile vehicles to Make America Great Again. It's all this clean energy nonsense and investment that's made us not that great, right?
Click to expand...

The reason we use gasoline and diesel is because they are the best energy storage mechanism we have. Just a few minutes to fill up the tank for 500 miles of travel in a cheap light vehicle. At least compared to electric.

If we can take the carbon out of the air rather than the ground and do it for less money than taking it out of the ground then why bother with anything else?
 
ataraxia said:
Why would we need gasoline anymore?

If you have that much extra electricity, you just sell more electric cars. You don't need gasoline. Again, the Europeans are way ahead of us on this. Here are some charts on per capita electric vehicle use. As always, the US is dead last among developed nations. And that's just the US average. California is shown separately, which has a much higher amount than the US average, but gets averaged into it. If you take California out, that total US average number is even lower than what's on the graph:



We just need to go back to coal and steam powered automobile vehicles to Make America Great Again. It's all this clean energy nonsense and investment that's made us not that great, right?
Click to expand...
Batteries are still a long way from replacing liquid hydrocarbon fuels for all applications.
Think, Aircraft, ships, and tractors, the usable energy density in liquid hydrocarbon fuels
is still like 5 times greater than the best batteries.
If we make the fuels from surplus electricity and atmospheric CO2, then when burned the fuel produces
no net CO2. It is like a better battery, one that is compatible with all our existing needs and infrastructure.
 
ataraxia said:
Why would we need gasoline anymore?

If you have that much extra electricity, you just sell more electric cars. You don't need gasoline. Again, the Europeans are way ahead of us on this. Here are some charts on per capita electric vehicle use. As always, the US is dead last among developed nations. And that's just the US average. California is shown separately, which has a much higher amount than the US average, but gets averaged into it. If you take California out, that total US average number is even lower than what's on the graph:

View attachment 67226771

We just need to go back to coal and steam powered automobile vehicles to Make America Great Again. It's all this clean energy nonsense and investment that's made us not that great, right?
Click to expand...

They have been subsidizing and/or giving tax breaks for electric cars. They are still too expensive for the common family, even there. Regardless, at the world level, the more electric cars you put on the road, the more coal you burn, which is dirtier than gasoline.
 
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