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NYT: China Unveils an Ambitious Plan to Curb Climate Change Emissions

Visbek

Visbek

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Yep, big shock to, uhm... no one. ;) China is now pushing for cap-and-trade. They are starting with a market for carbon production, applied to China's energy sector, which is responsible for about half the CO2 going into the atmosphere from China. The Chinese government recognize the various threats, ranging from poor air quality in big cities like Beijing, to rising sea levels that will impact its coastal cities.

There will be lots of challenges to implementing the system, but this will certainly continue to push Chinese companies to develop more renewable and sustainable energy sources.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/19/climate/china-carbon-market-climate-change-emissions.html
 
Visbek said:
Yep, big shock to, uhm... no one. ;) China is now pushing for cap-and-trade. They are starting with a market for carbon production, applied to China's energy sector, which is responsible for about half the CO2 going into the atmosphere from China. The Chinese government recognize the various threats, ranging from poor air quality in big cities like Beijing, to rising sea levels that will impact its coastal cities.

There will be lots of challenges to implementing the system, but this will certainly continue to push Chinese companies to develop more renewable and sustainable energy sources.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/19/climate/china-carbon-market-climate-change-emissions.html
Click to expand...

I'm glad to see China take a pragmatic and cautious approach rather than relenting to fossil fuel based corruption like our pathetic administration.
 
lol

One WUWT article, along with a completely irrelevant WaPo article. Impressive.
 
How can we ween Washington DC from its wild consumption of fossil fuel; this is the central question. Lets outlaw all travel except by wind and solar for all government employees. One thing we could do if fine these people for using fossil fuels for up to 100% of their salary and pension benefits.

Lets get serious about climate change by changing the way the elite live. Confiscate their limos their yachts and their executive jets.

Lets limit theme to 1000 square foot of living space with no heat and no hot water.
 
Jack Hays said:
A China that is the object of fear and suspicion will find it difficult to promote cap and trade.
Click to expand...
Again... lol

1) China is facing international pressure to reduce its CO2 emissions. They are doing what other nations want, and expect, them to do.

2) China is facing internal pressures and consequences to reduce its CO2 emissions. E.g. most of its major cities are on coasts, meaning they will face serious effects from rising sea levels.

3) This is a national trading scheme, not an international one. The changes will affect China's national energy industry, which (as the article points out, and I guess you missed it or didn't read it at all) is dominated by six state-owned companies, one of which only does nuclear power. I.e. it is utterly irrelevant to this program whether or not France is nervous about China's rising international stature.

4) Despite this very thin claim that China is somehow suddenly an "object of fear and suspicion," nations and international corporations are not slowing down one iota in their dealings with China.

In other words, it seems like your impulse is just to reach for some random link attacking China. Impressive.
 
Visbek said:
Again... lol

1) China is facing international pressure to reduce its CO2 emissions. They are doing what other nations want, and expect, them to do.

2) China is facing internal pressures and consequences to reduce its CO2 emissions. E.g. most of its major cities are on coasts, meaning they will face serious effects from rising sea levels.

3) This is a national trading scheme, not an international one. The changes will affect China's national energy industry, which (as the article points out, and I guess you missed it or didn't read it at all) is dominated by six state-owned companies, one of which only does nuclear power. I.e. it is utterly irrelevant to this program whether or not France is nervous about China's rising international stature.

4) Despite this very thin claim that China is somehow suddenly an "object of fear and suspicion," nations and international corporations are not slowing down one iota in their dealings with China.

In other words, it seems like your impulse is just to reach for some random link attacking China. Impressive.
Click to expand...

Cap and trade restricted to just one country is inconsequential, and would risk undermining competitiveness if other countries did not join.
 
Jack Hays said:
Cap and trade restricted to just one country is inconsequential, and would risk undermining competitiveness if other countries did not join.
Click to expand...
Wow. Not even remotely correct.

Cap-and-trade does not need to have any international component. The government sets a cap on total emissions, and sets up a market to allocate how the companies will generate those emissions. If Company #1 only uses up half its credits, then it can sell those credits to Companies #2, #4 and #6. The policy can be used to reduce emissions by the levels set by the caps.

China is the biggest emitter of CO2 in the world. Thus, there is no question that a plan to curb emissions is a big deal.

In terms of international competition: China is already working hard to develop renewable and sustainable energy supplies, as well as generation equipment that can be sold internationally. Forcing China's energy generation companies to meet emissions standards will push those companies and others to develop more efficient and less expensive low- or zero-emissions generation technologies, which they can sell abroad. Thus, this actually makes China more competitive internationally.
 
Visbek said:
Again... lol

1) China is facing international pressure to reduce its CO2 emissions. They are doing what other nations want, and expect, them to do.

2) China is facing internal pressures and consequences to reduce its CO2 emissions. E.g. most of its major cities are on coasts, meaning they will face serious effects from rising sea levels.

3) This is a national trading scheme, not an international one. The changes will affect China's national energy industry, which (as the article points out, and I guess you missed it or didn't read it at all) is dominated by six state-owned companies, one of which only does nuclear power. I.e. it is utterly irrelevant to this program whether or not France is nervous about China's rising international stature.

4) Despite this very thin claim that China is somehow suddenly an "object of fear and suspicion," nations and international corporations are not slowing down one iota in their dealings with China.

In other words, it seems like your impulse is just to reach for some random link attacking China. Impressive.
Click to expand...

Plus seeing them walking around the cities with air masks on is bad publicity.
 
Visbek said:
Wow. Not even remotely correct.

Cap-and-trade does not need to have any international component. The government sets a cap on total emissions, and sets up a market to allocate how the companies will generate those emissions. If Company #1 only uses up half its credits, then it can sell those credits to Companies #2, #4 and #6. The policy can be used to reduce emissions by the levels set by the caps.

China is the biggest emitter of CO2 in the world. Thus, there is no question that a plan to curb emissions is a big deal.

In terms of international competition: China is already working hard to develop renewable and sustainable energy supplies, as well as generation equipment that can be sold internationally. Forcing China's energy generation companies to meet emissions standards will push those companies and others to develop more efficient and less expensive low- or zero-emissions generation technologies, which they can sell abroad. Thus, this actually makes China more competitive internationally.
Click to expand...

Cap and trade in China alone would be even more of a feckless waste of time than the Paris Accord.
 
Visbek said:
Yep, big shock to, uhm... no one. ;) China is now pushing for cap-and-trade. They are starting with a market for carbon production, applied to China's energy sector, which is responsible for about half the CO2 going into the atmosphere from China. The Chinese government recognize the various threats, ranging from poor air quality in big cities like Beijing, to rising sea levels that will impact its coastal cities.

There will be lots of challenges to implementing the system, but this will certainly continue to push Chinese companies to develop more renewable and sustainable energy sources.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/19/climate/china-carbon-market-climate-change-emissions.html
Click to expand...

While India plans nearly 60% of electricity capacity from non-fossil fuels by 2027. Far exceeding their promise from the Paris Agreement.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/21/india-renewable-energy-paris-climate-summit-target

Developing countries also invested more in renewable energy than developed countries for the first time last year. That they see the advantage of renewable energy and new green technology.

Developing world invests more in renewable energy than rich countries for first time, new study says | The Independent
 

[h=1]#FakeNews L A Times hyping the start of China’s new carbon market – which actually isn’t starting and nobody knows when it will[/h]Guest essay by Larry Hamlin On December 19, 2017 the L A Times published a front page article hyping that “China launches the world’s biggest carbon trading market” with great praise for China providing climate leadership. The Times article offered the following highly politicalized climate alarmist characterization of this stupendous event. “Experts say that China…
Continue reading →
 

[h=1]China’s Great Climate Joke: Switching to Gas, Made from Coal[/h]Greens who celebrated China’s switch to gas are now worried the plans seem to be in disarray, as rushed conversions trigger a gas supply crisis. But behind the scenes, China is pursuing a gas production plan so carbon intensive, even Chinese greens are openly criticising central government policy. Chinese officials point fingers as gasification crisis…
Continue reading →
 
Visbek said:
Yep, big shock to, uhm... no one. ;) China is now pushing for cap-and-trade. They are starting with a market for carbon production, applied to China's energy sector, which is responsible for about half the CO2 going into the atmosphere from China. The Chinese government recognize the various threats, ranging from poor air quality in big cities like Beijing, to rising sea levels that will impact its coastal cities.

There will be lots of challenges to implementing the system, but this will certainly continue to push Chinese companies to develop more renewable and sustainable energy sources.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/19/climate/china-carbon-market-climate-change-emissions.html
Click to expand...

China's problem is pollution ... not CO2.
Only an EPA for an Administration like the previous one could declare something is a pollutant when it's both the consequence of life and required for life.
And it should be noted that China is notorious for under-reporting their emissions while talking a good game.
 
Visbek said:
Yep, big shock to, uhm... no one. ;) China is now pushing for cap-and-trade. They are starting with a market for carbon production, applied to China's energy sector, which is responsible for about half the CO2 going into the atmosphere from China. The Chinese government recognize the various threats, ranging from poor air quality in big cities like Beijing, to rising sea levels that will impact its coastal cities.

There will be lots of challenges to implementing the system, but this will certainly continue to push Chinese companies to develop more renewable and sustainable energy sources.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/19/climate/china-carbon-market-climate-change-emissions.html
Click to expand...

How are you going to verify it? Or verify anything China does for that matter? They are a closed society so they can tell you they have completely ended all carbon emissions, and you have no choice but to take their word for it. IMO, anything China is doing is being done so it's technology can be sold to the drooling idiots in the west who seek to de-industrialize their .05% of the worlds real estate to save the planet.

The Chinese know a sucker when they see one.
 
When a paper praises China for efforts that that should have never been needed to begin with...

What does that say about the NY Slimes?
 
[h=2]All it takes is a few kids with frostbite to foil a great government plan (and coal saves the day)[/h]
To cut smog and PM 2.5 pollution the Chinese government banned coal fired heating in 28 cities in Northern China and ordered them to convert to gas. But things aren’t going too well:
Public anger boiled over after China Youth Daily published video images of children at a primary school in Hebei province’s Quyang county who were forced to sit outside in the winter sun because their classrooms were too cold.
The Ministry of Education demanded “immediate” action to provide heating after students at another primary school showed signs of frostbite, the official English-language China Daily said.
It seemed like such a good idea at the time:
A joint government and municipal action plan for the 28 cities was released as far back as last March, calling for Beijing, Tianjin, Langfang and Baoding to ban small coal- fired furnaces by the end of October, among a host of other measures for the region.
“Areas in these cities will be declared completely ‘coal free,’” the official Xinhua news agency reported on March 31.
Communism fails for the 300th time:
Despite efforts to shift the blame, responsibility for the poor policy coordination seemed to fall squarely on the NDRC and the central government.
Coal futures at record highs:
The impact on gas supplies has already driven coal prices to new highs. On Dec. 11, coal futures hit a record of 689.8 yuan (U.S. $104.86) per metric ton, Reuters said.
Small coal burners are inefficient, so a gas transition could be a good thing, but sometimes when bureaucrats click fingers, kids lose them.
 
Jack Hays said:
A China that is the object of fear and suspicion will find it difficult to promote cap and trade.
Click to expand...

The problem with China is you can't believe their numbers. There are few audited figures you can really count on. The head honcho says "we reduced emissions by 5%. Take my word for it or else".

Their claims are specious, their promises are suspect, and their actually progress is mostly for show.
 
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chuckiechan said:
The problem with China is you can't believe their numbers. There are few audited figures you can really count on. The head honcho says "we reduced emissions by 5%. Take my word for it or else".

Their claims are specious, their promises are suspect, and their actually progress is mostly for show.
Click to expand...

Yep.

Just like any other government in the world, including ours.
 
chuckiechan said:
When you get an audited income statement from a US company, you can count on the figures to be accurate. With China, you can't.
Click to expand...

I can agree with that, but in general, our politicians lie with the best of them when they can get away with it.
 
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