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Thread: Svensmark Closes the Loop -- The Missing Link Between GCR's, Clouds and Climate

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    Re: Svensmark Closes the Loop -- The Missing Link Between GCR's, Clouds and Climate

    There seems to be quite a bit of dependency on the roll that clouds play in Earth's energy balance.
    The CERES satellite was launched to measure some of these things directly.
    https://ceres.larc.nasa.gov/document...TOA_Update.pdf
    The Global Mean TOA Flux (Wm-2) Ed2.8
    March 2000 – June 2015
    All sky NET 0.60 Wm-2
    Clear Sky NET 21.7 Wm-2
    The all sky included clouds, the clear sky, is sort of self explanatory.
    It sure looks like the clear sky TOA net FLUX is 36 times greater than the all sky,
    I.E. Clouds drop the amount of net FLUX by a large number.

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    Re: Svensmark Closes the Loop -- The Missing Link Between GCR's, Clouds and Climate

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the plumber View Post
    So you are saying that those professors at CERN are clueless as to knowing if their idea is of no merrit what so ever?

    That other scientists who's jobs depend upon the fuss about global warming are able to absolutely show that they know that it is a no goer.

    This despite you not actually presenting the evidence to show that just other people's word.
    You have to remember Tim...

    Any heretic that disbelieves the dogma from the IPCC Assessment Reports is wrong. Period!

    The gospel will not be questioned!

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    Re: Svensmark Closes the Loop -- The Missing Link Between GCR's, Clouds and Climate

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    Words have meaning, A writer may choose to tighten or loosen the meaning with the syntax.
    The statement, "A significant part of this uncertainty range arises from our limited knowledge
    of clouds and their interactions with radiation." does not exclude Svensmark's theories.
    We can argue weather the lack of a confined statement was intentional, but not that the statement
    leaves open a much broader range of cloud and radiation interaction.
    As your statements detail that you do not understand the basics of Svensmark's theories,
    I have to wonder why you are arguing so vigorously that it cannot be a factor?
    Most papers are written rather loosely. I gave up on trying to get people to actually read the papers and see the truth. They only believe those who read the same bible.

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    Re: Svensmark Closes the Loop -- The Missing Link Between GCR's, Clouds and Climate

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    I'm stating that the CLOUD lab at CERN has been operating for years, performing a variety of experiments. A handful of papers from CLOUD studies lend some support to the CR theory; most do not. The study I linked is one of the most extensive surveys of 10 years of data, and its conclusion is that CR variability has a negligible effect on the climate overall.



    Please, spare us the conspiracy theory nonsense. We could just as easily say that the researchers who are funded by fossil fuel companies and conservative think tanks (e.g. Shaviv <--> Heartland) are equally compromised.



    The evidence is in the linked article, which apparently you didn't read. Impressive.
    I think the important thing is that they show the science is not settled. I think you fail to realize that assumed feedback of CO2 forcing is also not proven.

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    Re: Svensmark Closes the Loop -- The Missing Link Between GCR's, Clouds and Climate

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Most papers are written rather loosely. I gave up on trying to get people to actually read the papers and see the truth. They only believe those who read the same bible.
    The funny thing is that if you actually hear what the scientists about their research in their own words, it’s pretty clear that their position is...opposite of yours.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Svensmark Closes the Loop -- The Missing Link Between GCR's, Clouds and Climate

    Jack Hays, did you see this?

    Science Daily

    The missing link between exploding stars, clouds, and climate on Earth

    Excerpt:

    Breakthrough in understanding of how cosmic rays from supernovae can influence Earth's cloud cover and thereby climate

    December 19, 2017

    Technical University of Denmark

    Summary:

    The study reveals how atmospheric ions, produced by the energetic cosmic rays raining down through the atmosphere, helps the growth and formation of cloud condensation nuclei -- the seeds necessary for forming clouds in the atmosphere.

    LINK

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    Re: Svensmark Closes the Loop -- The Missing Link Between GCR's, Clouds and Climate

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    Words have meaning, A writer may choose to tighten or loosen the meaning with the syntax.
    The statement, "A significant part of this uncertainty range arises from our limited knowledge
    of clouds and their interactions with radiation." does not exclude Svensmark's theories.
    Words have meaning. I've already cited the passages where the IPCC flatly rejected Svensmark's theories. Yet again, if you do not understand that very simple fact, it's not my problem.


    As your statements detail that you do not understand the basics of Svensmark's theories,
    I have to wonder why you are arguing so vigorously that it cannot be a factor?
    Oh, really?

    Tell us all then, what exactly are Svensmark's theories? And how am I mischaracterizing them?
    "Everyone should listen to me all the time about everything."
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    Re: Svensmark Closes the Loop -- The Missing Link Between GCR's, Clouds and Climate

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Most papers are written rather loosely.
    Oh, really? I presume that includes Svensmark's papers?

    What is written "loosely" in this paper? Provide details, kthx.
    Global atmospheric particle formation from CERN CLOUD measurements | Science
    "Everyone should listen to me all the time about everything."
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    Re: Svensmark Closes the Loop -- The Missing Link Between GCR's, Clouds and Climate

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    There seems to be quite a bit of dependency on the roll that clouds play in Earth's energy balance.
    Really? How fascinating. Because I have it on good authority that a great deal of the uncertainty in the temperature variations we've observed is a result of not fully understanding the interplay of heat and.... clouds.

    Who said that? Oh, it was the IPCC. Which you quoted, over and over and over again. "In reality, due to feedbacks, the response of the climate system is much more complex. It is believed that the overall effect of the feedbacks amplifies the temperature increase to 1.5 to 4.5°C. A significant part of this uncertainty range arises from our limited knowledge of clouds and their interactions with radiation."

    I really love the fact that you've been hammering on about this for days, and then just drop it without a second thought. Based on a PowerPoint. In Comic Sans. Which explains the updates and corrections in v4 of the CERES data product. (I mean, really, do you even bother to look at what you're linking?)

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    Re: Svensmark Closes the Loop -- The Missing Link Between GCR's, Clouds and Climate

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Really? How fascinating. Because I have it on good authority that a great deal of the uncertainty in the temperature variations we've observed is a result of not fully understanding the interplay of heat and.... clouds.

    Who said that? Oh, it was the IPCC. Which you quoted, over and over and over again. "In reality, due to feedbacks, the response of the climate system is much more complex. It is believed that the overall effect of the feedbacks amplifies the temperature increase to 1.5 to 4.5°C. A significant part of this uncertainty range arises from our limited knowledge of clouds and their interactions with radiation."

    I really love the fact that you've been hammering on about this for days, and then just drop it without a second thought. Based on a PowerPoint. In Comic Sans. Which explains the updates and corrections in v4 of the CERES data product. (I mean, really, do you even bother to look at what you're linking?)

    LOL.

    The comic sans line killed me.

    It’s like a metaphor for his whole posting history...
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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