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BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat[W:25]

Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

The armed forces will ignore this one, too. Just like they ignored the ‘transgender ban’.

Because anyone with half a brain knows that climate change is a long term threat to US National Security.

US Defense Dept Has a Severe New Climate Change Warning

Under your logic know what else is a national security threat? Shifting continental plates. We're moving about an inch a year away from Europe. Widening the Atlantic Ocean and closing the Pacific Ocean. That's going to have a major impact on weather, transportation costs, volcanic activity, and many many other things. So...what do you propose to do to stop the tectonic plates from shifting?
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

Under your logic know what else is a national security threat? Shifting continental plates. We're moving about an inch a year away from Europe. Widening the Atlantic Ocean and closing the Pacific Ocean. That's going to have a major impact on weather, transportation costs, volcanic activity, and many many other things. So...what do you propose to do to stop the tectonic plates from shifting?

There are countless things that could be considered national security threats - i.e. may require a military response or affect the costs and/or resources required to do so. I suspect that the answer to all of them is to increase DoD (or other federal) funding just in case.

Obesity - ruled taboo for use in setting higher medical care insurance premiums under PPACA.

Obesity epidemic at new high, costs $150B a year, hurts military recruiting

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/too-fat-fight-obesity-crisis-national-security-risk-n582331
 
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Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

There are countless things that could be considered national security threats - i.e. may require a military response or affect the costs and or/resources required to do so. I suspect that the answer to all of them is to increase DoD (or other federal) funding just in case.

Obesity - ruled taboo for use in setting higher medical care insurance premiums under PPACA.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/too-fat-fight-obesity-crisis-national-security-risk-n582331

Yeah, I don't mind our government working towards cleaner air, cleaner forms of getting materials that we need etc etc etc. Such is common sense and might slow down making the weather worse faster. But to base policy on something immutable is nothing more than a money and power grab pyramid scheme. Our weather is GOING to change. For the negative (in regards to humans) no matter what we do about it. The only thing that is going to change that is if we can control the weather like in Star Trek:TNG. GL on that.
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

Climate changes have always had a massive impact on humans. Massive migrations, the fall of empires, plagues, famine etc.

Here's an example of the last mini-ice age
Little Ice Age, Big Consequences - History in the Headlines

Some speculate that the Fall of Rome coincided with North American volcanic activity which led to a change in climate resulting in large migrations of populations.

Places that currently grow our crops and feed the world become less arable. A large percentage of the population in the world lives on lower lying coastal regions.

Oh, I am well aware that a cooling would be very bad indeed.

But a warming to somewhere like the Holocene optimal? More food. More wild life. Sahara being a land of woods and grassland. Where is the bad bit?
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

Yeah, I don't mind our government working towards cleaner air, cleaner forms of getting materials that we need etc etc etc. Such is common sense and might slow down making the weather worse faster. But to base policy on something immutable is nothing more than a money and power grab pyramid scheme. Our weather is GOING to change. For the negative (in regards to humans) no matter what we do about it. The only thing that is going to change that is if we can control the weather like in Star Trek:TNG. GL on that.

My point was that we often make government policy that makes things worse and rather than change that policy simply use that as reason to increase the power/cost of government.
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

Under your logic know what else is a national security threat? Shifting continental plates. We're moving about an inch a year away from Europe. Widening the Atlantic Ocean and closing the Pacific Ocean. That's going to have a major impact on weather, transportation costs, volcanic activity, and many many other things. So...what do you propose to do to stop the tectonic plates from shifting?

This is somewhat true- but the time frame is more geologic. Therefore it’s a threat the military probably doesn’t have to prepare for, although they may have contingency plans on, say the California plate messing up naval bases in SF bay.

You realize the military isn’t trying to stop climate change...but just to be prepared for the consequences over the coming decades, right?
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

I think if a reasonable person looked at the three tide stations around Norfolk,
Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel 5.94 mm/yr
Kiptopeke, VA 3.61 mm/yr
and Portsmouth, VA 3.76 mm/yr
The higher number is on a man made island in the middle of the pass.
The tidal currents that rip in and out of that pass twice daily, could be having an effect on the man made island.

Yup.
A person would have to have an unyielding mindset to look at such numbers and not recognize the incongruity inherent in their position.
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

Yup.
A person would have to have an unyielding mindset to look at such numbers and not recognize the incongruity inherent in their position.

Amazing that you guys know so much more than the experts on this.

I guess the Navy just doesn’t have people of your caliber working for them.

Norfolk Prepares For Battle With Rising Sea Level | WUNC
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

Climate changes have always had a massive impact on humans. Massive migrations, the fall of empires, plagues, famine etc.

Here's an example of the last mini-ice age
Little Ice Age, Big Consequences - History in the Headlines

Some speculate that the Fall of Rome coincided with North American volcanic activity which led to a change in climate resulting in large migrations of populations.

Places that currently grow our crops and feed the world become less arable. A large percentage of the population in the world lives on lower lying coastal regions.

Climate change will always exist there is little you can do about it.
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

Amazing that you guys know so much more than the experts on this.

I guess the Navy just doesn’t have people of your caliber working for them.

Norfolk Prepares For Battle With Rising Sea Level | WUNC

One of the jobs of the militarily, is to prepare contingency plans, what if scenarios.
The sea level is, and has been raising, and some point perhaps centuries ahead, Norfolk could be at risk.
It is only prudent for the Navy to look at what possibilities exist.
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

One of the jobs of the militarily, is to prepare contingency plans, what if scenarios.
The sea level is, and has been raising, and some point perhaps centuries ahead, Norfolk could be at risk.
It is only prudent for the Navy to look at what possibilities exist.

If you read the article, they are experiencing consequences now, and expect worse in the coming decades.

But they aren’t real engineers like you. Just naval engineers, I guess.
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

If you read the article, they are experiencing consequences now, and expect worse in the coming decades.

But they aren’t real engineers like you. Just naval engineers, I guess.

As I said, they know that sea level are raising and the ground is subsiding, plans need to be made whatever the cause.
That they are planning is not reflective of the cause. The actual report indicated some of the plans were based on If the IPCC predictions were correct.
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

One of the jobs of the militarily, is to prepare contingency plans, what if scenarios.
The sea level is, and has been raising, and some point perhaps centuries ahead, Norfolk could be at risk.
It is only prudent for the Navy to look at what possibilities exist.

The Military doesn't train for things that may not happen. In Korea, we got more nuclear warfare training than units geared for deployments to the sandbox. At least in the Army, they're not going to pay for training on how to battle asymmetric warfare if we weren't expecting guerilla warfare tactics from the OPFOR
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

The Military doesn't train for things that may not happen. In Korea, we got more nuclear warfare training than units geared for deployments to the sandbox. At least in the Army, they're not going to pay for training on how to battle asymmetric warfare if we weren't expecting guerilla warfare tactics from the OPFOR
Did I mentioning anything about training? No, I am speaking of preparing for what if scenarios.
Likely several low level officers, looking at low level possibilities.
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

Did I mentioning anything about training? No, I am speaking of preparing for what if scenarios.
Likely several low level officers, looking at low level possibilities.

And how does one group prepare for "what if" scenarios? Come say it with me now. Training. If you don't train the troops at the unit level for scenarios you're setting yourself up for failure.
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

Is the climate breaching our borders or attacking our military?

Not a national security threat then...
 
The Trump administration will reverse course from previous Obama administration policy, eliminating climate change from a list of national security threats. The National Security Strategy to be released on Monday will emphasize the importance of balancing energy security with economic development and environmental protection, according to a source who has seen the document and shared excerpts of a late draft.​

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/12...climate-change-as-a-national-security-threat/

That's good news, because it isn't, unless we have some giant volcano eruptions or giant asteroid strike or something.
 
That's good news, because it isn't, unless we have some giant volcano eruptions or giant asteroid strike or something.

Hell, if humans can control Nature, I'm sure Bruce Willis can deal with volcanoes or asteroids.
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

As I said, they know that sea level are raising and the ground is subsiding, plans need to be made whatever the cause.
That they are planning is not reflective of the cause. The actual report indicated some of the plans were based on If the IPCC predictions were correct.

And this, of course is one small thing - one naval base in Virginia.

The military has also been extensively planning on what happens when the Arctic is ice free, when the impact of climate refugees and disruption will occur, etc.etc.

This is a real thing.... look at this video clip from a Congressional hearing, where a general, the Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, describes what the military is alert to regarding climate change. His testimony starts at the 1:30 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NlanagAyfc&feature=youtu.be
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

And how does one group prepare for "what if" scenarios? Come say it with me now. Training. If you don't train the troops at the unit level for scenarios you're setting yourself up for failure.
Not at all if the what if is something that might require a change in infrastructure.
In that case the preparation may be a change in future funding or planning.
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

And this, of course is one small thing - one naval base in Virginia.

The military has also been extensively planning on what happens when the Arctic is ice free, when the impact of climate refugees and disruption will occur, etc.etc.

This is a real thing.... look at this video clip from a Congressional hearing, where a general, the Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, describes what the military is alert to regarding climate change. His testimony starts at the 1:30 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NlanagAyfc&feature=youtu.be

It would be a plan, If the arctic becomes ice free.
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

It would be a plan, If the arctic becomes ice free.

Right. But they dont have contingency plans for the arctic to become even MORE ice locked, because the best data we have says the arctic will become ice free due to AGW.

Get it?
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

Right. But they dont have contingency plans for the arctic to become even MORE ice locked, because the best data we have says the arctic will become ice free due to AGW.

Get it?
Actually, I don't think you get it. I would not be at all surprised if the military does not have plans for both.
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat


Oh, I am well aware that a cooling would be very bad indeed.

But a warming to somewhere like the Holocene optimal? More food. More wild life. Sahara being a land of woods and grassland. Where is the bad bit?

It's the change that is the issue when discussing Climate change. Places that people live now become flooded. Places that grow food no longer can grow that food while other places become arable.

During the Holocene period, the American Midwest was a desert. A lot of crops are grown in that area now. Even if another part of the world benefits, it doesn't have the infrastructure and set up of the American Midwest. That infrastructure has been built up over decades. That's just one example of change.

We have billions of people on this planet so massive disruptions in our food sources would cause a famine.
 
Re: BREAKING: Trump to remove ‘climate change’ as a national security threat

Climate change will always exist there is little you can do about it.

You can plan for it. You can have things in place to lessen the impact. That's the whole point of calling it a threat.
 
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