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Indirect Effects of the Sun on Earth's Climate[W:376]

Lord of Planar said:
Why? You are a denier of science anyway. I watched a video of one of her lectures. She is worth listening too. I'm not taking the time to find this for you. I found it from her university site, an a page that had her works and lectures. I know I should have copied a link or two. Here is the link I found good information from.

Imperial College London - Search Results: Solar Influences on Climate
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Yes, that's where I got the citation from that I just quoted! I'm surprised you didn't recognise it. You have read the paper, haven't you?

However, I don't see anything there that supports your claim that "Her material also claims it is not possible to claim the levels of antropogenic cause because we don'y fully understand the natural causes to take their sums out of the final result for greenhouse gasses." Please cite the relevant passage(s).
 
Lord of Planar said:
Why? You are a denier of science anyway. I watched a video of one of her lectures. She is worth listening too. I'm not taking the time to find this for you. I found it from her university site, an a page that had her works and lectures. I know I should have copied a link or two. Here is the link I found good information from.

Imperial College London - Search Results: Solar Influences on Climate
Click to expand...

She is worth listening to.


Wonder why you cant hear what she’s saying?

Heatwaves, 'Hothouse Earth' and putting the heat on governments | Imperial News | Imperial College London
 
[FONT=&quot]Solar[/FONT]
[h=1]NASA: The chill of solar minimum is being felt in our atmosphere – cooling trend seen[/h][FONT=&quot]By Dr. Tony Phillips (Reprinted with permission of Spaceweather.com) Sept. 27, 2018: The sun is entering one of the deepest Solar Minima of the Space Age. Sunspots have been absent for most of 2018, and the sun’s ultraviolet output has sharply dropped. New research shows that Earth’s upper atmosphere is responding. “We see a cooling trend,”…
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[FONT=&quot]Solar[/FONT]
[h=1]Essay: Solar cycle wave frequency linked to jet stream changes[/h][FONT=&quot]It’s not the heat It’s the humidity By Francis Tucker Manns, PhD Abstract: The sun controls climate change. Not industry. Not you. Not me. It is the sun. Solar cycle 24, the weakest in 100 years, is stumbling to an end. The sunspot cycle averages about 11 (± 1.5) years. There may not be any sunspots…
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Jack Hays said:
[FONT="][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/09/28/essay-solar-cycle-wave-frequency-linked-to-jet-stream-changes/"]
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[/URL]Solar[/FONT]
[h=1]Essay: Solar cycle wave frequency linked to jet stream changes[/h][FONT="]It’s not the heat It’s the humidity By Francis Tucker Manns, PhD Abstract: The sun controls climate change. Not industry. Not you. Not me. It is the sun. Solar cycle 24, the weakest in 100 years, is stumbling to an end. The sunspot cycle averages about 11 (± 1.5) years. There may not be any sunspots…
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This may be a new study, but not a new realization.
 
[FONT=&quot]Climate News[/FONT]
[h=1]Hunger Stones and Tree Ring evidence suggests solar cycle influence on climate[/h][FONT=&quot]The Solar Cycle is responsible for extreme weather and Climate change According to Tree ring and Hunger Stone events by Francis Tucker Manns Ph.D., P.Geo (Ontario) Artesian Geological Research Abstract Recent discovery of the relationship between the location of the North American Jet Stream and extreme weather is a breakthrough in the understanding of solar forced climate change. Five…
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[FONT=&quot]Solar[/FONT]
[h=1]Weak sun and El Nino events may create a colder and snowier than normal winter season in much of the eastern half of the USA[/h][FONT=&quot]The fast approaching solar minimum and its potential impact on the upcoming winter season By Meteorologist Paul Dorian Overview In the long term, the sun is the main driver of all weather and climate and multi-decadal trends in solar activity can have major impacts on oceanic and atmospheric temperatures. In addition, empirical observations have shown…
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Jack Hays said:
[FONT="][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/09/30/hunger-stones-and-tree-ring-evidence-suggests-solar-cycle-influence-on-climate/"]
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[/URL]Climate News[/FONT]
[h=1]Hunger Stones and Tree Ring evidence suggests solar cycle influence on climate[/h][FONT="]The Solar Cycle is responsible for extreme weather and Climate change According to Tree ring and Hunger Stone events by Francis Tucker Manns Ph.D., P.Geo (Ontario) Artesian Geological Research Abstract Recent discovery of the relationship between the location of the North American Jet Stream and extreme weather is a breakthrough in the understanding of solar forced climate change. Five…
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Greetings, Jack. :2wave:

I was very surprised, and pleased, to actually read about the Hunger Stones, since my Paternal Grandfather often talked about them, having emigrated to America as a young child with his parents from the Czech Republic. I always thought it was just another story he made up for us kids, because he was known as a "jokester!" :mrgreen: It's odd that the stones and their histories are letting us know now, though, so thanks are due to those who took the time to carve, on boulders, what they were experiencing back then.

If the stones could talk, would they tell us about getting ready for difficult times that might be ahead for our planet - widespread famine as an example - since there seems to be a lot more talk lately that it could be getting colder in the future, not warmer, but that's not really news either since I had read several years ago that climate scientists in Europe were predicting that. Time will tell.....
 
[h=2]Evil Nature caused Swiss Glaciers to melt faster in 1870 (See solar and volcanic effects)[/h]
A study on Swiss Glaciers shows that the fastest melting was in the 1860s and 1870s, long before the first coal fired power. (See that steep decline from 1850-70 in Part a in the graph below.) In Part b see the glaciers have been going back and forward in cycles that somehow have no correlation with human emissions.
Climate models can’t predict any of these turning points, don’t understand any of these cycles, but “doom is coming”.
Pay up your money to make glaciers grow again.
From the Paul Scherrer Institut (PSI)
Figure 8. (a) Cumulative glacier length changes for the four glaciers Bossons, Mer de Glace, Oberer (O-) Grindelwald and Unterer (U-) Grindelwald …); (b) glacier length change rate …(c )glacier length changes compared to surface air temperature anomalies for the summer … Panel (d) air temps and stratospheric aerosol optical depth (SAOD) (Click to enlarge and read the proper full caption).
​
In Part c (above) — glacier lengths correlate with temperatures. In part d the brown spikes are the Stratospheric Aerosol Optical Depth [SAOD] — meaning volcanic dust, black carbon, soot. These were bad years to head to the beach.
In terms of speed, note the lack of any spooky “unprecedented” retreat. The glaciers are shorter now, but the rate they are shortening is slower than in 1870.
[h=3]Unlike CO2, volcanoes and solar activity do correlate with glacier length[/h]See this longer graph — the red line estimate of summer temperature bottoms twice in 1600 and 1810 which also coincides with volcanic activity and solar minima.
It could get pretty expensive to control glacier length since we have to reduce the suns activity and probably set off some nukes in lieu of a handy volcano.
Click to enlarge. Figure 9. (a) black dots are glacier measurements. Grey columns are times of high volcanic aerosols. The red line is an estimate of European summer temperatures from tree rings. [BB means Biomass Burning if you click and read the proper caption.]
​
Long glaciers coincide with the solar minima and with volcanic forcing:http://joannenova.com.au/2018/10/ev...70-see-solar-and-volcanic-effects/#more-61283Keep reading →




 
[FONT=&quot]Solar[/FONT]
[h=1]Svalgaard paper: Reconstruction of 9000 years of Solar Activity[/h][FONT=&quot]Dr. Leif Svalgaard sent this to me via email saying “Anthony, here is a short note I just submitted to arXiv. You are welcome to make of it what you want, if anything”. I choose to publish it without comment for our readers to consider. Up to Nine Millennia of Multimessenger Solar Activity Leif Svalgaard, Stanford…
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[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[h=1]Data: Global Temperatures Rose As Cloud Cover Fell In the 1980s and 90s[/h][FONT=&quot]Climatologist Dr. Roy Spencer has pointed out in his book, “The most obvious way for warming to be caused naturally is for small, natural fluctuations in the circulation patterns of the atmosphere and ocean to result in a 1% or 2% decrease in global cloud cover. Clouds are the Earth’s sunshade, and if cloud cover changes…
Continue reading →
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[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[h=1]The Millennial Turning Point – Solar Activity and the Coming Cooling[/h][FONT=&quot]Guest opinion by Dr. Norman Page When analyzing complex systems with multiple interacting variables it is useful to note the advice of Enrico Fermi who reportedly said “never make something more accurate than absolutely necessary”. My recent paper presented a simple heuristic approach to climate science which plausibly proposed that a Millennial Turning Point (MTP)…
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[FONT=&quot]Solar[/FONT]
[h=1]Solar Cycle Update for November 2018 – warmth sticking around, or cooling ahead?[/h][FONT=&quot]Guest essay by David Archibald In reading the solar data, what we are after in the near term is the likely month of minimum for the Solar Cycle 24/25 minimum and likely amplitude of Solar Cycle 25. Of course that quest for truth gets easier as we approach the minimum, at least apparently. Solar Cycle…
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Jack Hays said:
[FONT="][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/24/solar-cycle-update-for-november-2018-warmth-sticking-around-or-cooling-ahead/"]
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[/URL]Solar[/FONT]
[h=1]Solar Cycle Update for November 2018 – warmth sticking around, or cooling ahead?[/h][FONT="]Guest essay by David Archibald In reading the solar data, what we are after in the near term is the likely month of minimum for the Solar Cycle 24/25 minimum and likely amplitude of Solar Cycle 25. Of course that quest for truth gets easier as we approach the minimum, at least apparently. Solar Cycle…
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https://www.xyz.net.au/victorian-grain-production-down-42-as-grand-solar-minimum-intensifies/
 
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[h=1]It’s the gradient, stupid![/h][FONT=&quot]How does the Sun drive climate change? Guest Post by Javier The dispute between scholars that favor a periodical interpretation of climate changes, mostly based on astronomical causes, and those that prefer non-periodical Earth-based explanations has a long tradition that can be traced to the catastrophism-uniformitarianism dispute and how the theory of ice ages (now termed glaciations)…
Continue reading →
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Jack Hays said:
[FONT="][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/12/12/its-the-gradient-stupid/"]
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[h=1]It’s the gradient, stupid![/h][FONT="][FONT=inherit]How does the Sun drive climate change? Guest Post by Javier The dispute between scholars that favor a periodical interpretation of climate changes, mostly based on astronomical causes, and those that prefer non-periodical Earth-based explanations has a long tradition that can be traced to the catastrophism-uniformitarianism dispute and how the theory of ice ages (now termed glaciations)…[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/12/12/its-the-gradient-stupid/"]Continue reading →[/URL][/FONT]
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Oh God, not that idiot Javier again :doh Someone should tell him that the Milankovtich cycles and greenhouse warming are not opposing theories. Indeed, Milankovitch cycles rely on amplification by greenhouse gases in order to produce the large climate shifts resulting in the ice age and interglacials.
 
Surface Detail said:
Oh God, not that idiot Javier again :doh Someone should tell him that the Milankovtich cycles and greenhouse warming are not opposing theories. Indeed, Milankovitch cycles rely on amplification by greenhouse gases in order to produce the large climate shifts resulting in the ice age and interglacials.
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Javier is ahead of you.

[FONT=&quot]. . . In the 1960’s and early 70’s Milankovitch theory was discredited with only a handful of followers left. The anti-cyclical, GHG explanation enjoyed wide consensus, but due to the cooling at the time, scholars believed other factors must be at play. Then disaster struck for the anti-cyclical camp. In 1976, Hays, Imbrie, and Shackleton, analyzing Indian Ocean benthic cores for the past 450,000 years and showed that glaciations followed some of Milankovitch frequencies within 5% error. A 140-year quest had ended, and the cyclical orbital supporters had won.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Of course, GHG supporters are bad players and did not accept the defeat graciously. Since it was soon discovered in ice cores that GHGs followed orbital changes (as they should), it was soon proposed (and accepted without evidence) that they were required to amplify the orbital changes and to maintain inter-hemispheric synchroneity. Trying to turn the defeat into a victory, they claim that the frequency is set by Milankovitch but a great deal of glacial-interglacial climate changes are due to GHG changes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You would think that after showing that climate was cyclical and astronomically based, propositions that other astronomical phenomena (like lunar periodicities or solar variability periodicities), might affect climate would at least be given the benefit of doubt. But no. The anti-cyclical camp enjoys centennial beatings by the cyclical mavericks, so they are building up for the next one by flatly rejecting any significant climatic effect from periodical solar changes. Apparently, they are undeterred by the evidence showing most periods of low solar activity during the Holocene are associated with cooling and atmospheric circulation and precipitation changes, like the LIA. There are about 10 abrupt climate events (ACEs) associated with low solar activity during the Holocene. Some have names like the pre-boreal and boreal oscillations, or the 9.3 or 2.7 kyr events, showing that the most frequent cause for ACEs is prolonged low solar activity. . . .[/FONT]
 
Jack Hays said:
Javier is ahead of you.

[FONT="][I]. . . In the 1960’s and early 70’s Milankovitch theory was discredited with only a handful of followers left. The anti-cyclical, GHG explanation enjoyed wide consensus, but due to the cooling at the time, scholars believed other factors must be at play. Then disaster struck for the anti-cyclical camp. In 1976, [URL="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/J_Hays/publication/301325552_Variations_in_the_Earth_pacemaker_of_the_ice_ages/links/573cca0c08ae9ace840fe240/Variations-in-the-Earth-pacemaker-of-the-ice-ages.pdf"]Hays, Imbrie, and Shackleton[/URL], analyzing Indian Ocean benthic cores for the past 450,000 years and showed that glaciations followed some of Milankovitch frequencies within 5% error. A 140-year quest had ended, and the cyclical orbital supporters had won.[/I][/FONT]
[FONT="][I]Of course, GHG supporters are bad players and did not accept the defeat graciously. Since it was soon discovered in ice cores that GHGs followed orbital changes (as they should), it was soon proposed (and accepted without evidence) that they were required to amplify the orbital changes and to maintain inter-hemispheric synchroneity. [B]Trying to turn the defeat into a victory, they claim that the frequency is set by Milankovitch but a great deal of glacial-interglacial climate changes are due to GHG changes.[/B][/I][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#404040][FONT="]You would think that after showing that climate was cyclical and astronomically based, propositions that other astronomical phenomena (like lunar periodicities or solar variability periodicities), might affect climate would at least be given the benefit of doubt. But no. The anti-cyclical camp enjoys centennial beatings by the cyclical mavericks, so they are building up for the next one by flatly rejecting any significant climatic effect from periodical solar changes. Apparently, they are undeterred by the evidence showing most periods of low solar activity during the Holocene are associated with cooling and atmospheric circulation and precipitation changes, like the LIA. There are about 10 abrupt climate events (ACEs) associated with low solar activity during the Holocene. Some have names like the pre-boreal and boreal oscillations, or the 9.3 or 2.7 kyr events, showing that the most frequent cause for ACEs is prolonged low solar activity. . . .[/FONT]
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No, he isn't. He is well behind me and almost everyone with any scientific nous. The only thing he is good at is rewriting history, as demonstrated here.
 
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