NYT: Harrowing Storms May Move Climate Debate, if Not G.O.P. Leaders

Visbek · Sep 14, 2017

Article today about how recent extreme weather events are starting to move the conversation about climate change. The issue is still deeply polarizing, and some "Red State" politicians still have certain linguistic problems actually using the correct terms, but still have to deal with constituents who are feeling the effects of climate change. And we've only just begun.

“The conversation is shifting,” said Senator Brian Schatz, Democrat of Hawaii. “Because even if you don’t believe liberals, even if you don’t believe scientists, you can believe your own eyes.”...

“We can get a fair amount of bipartisanship if we talk about severe weather and resiliency,” Mr. Schatz said. “For some people, it’s just about the phrase ‘climate change’ being too politically loaded.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/14/us/irma-harvey-climate-politics.html

cuban smokes · Sep 14, 2017

when governors Abbott & Scott are looking at the events of Harvey & Irma that have caused an estimated combined property damage of $500 billion aka half a TRILLION $$$$$$ then they may start to have some deeply polarizing feelings in their behinds ............. and since Abbott & Scott have previously gone on record as being in the climate change 'denier' camp I believe that both Abbott & Scott should REFUSE every offer of federal assistance ............... put your money where your mouths have been, gentlemen ................

LowDown · Sep 14, 2017

Visbek said:
Article today about how recent extreme weather events are starting to move the conversation about climate change. The issue is still deeply polarizing, and some "Red State" politicians still have certain linguistic problems actually using the correct terms, but still have to deal with constituents who are feeling the effects of climate change. And we've only just begun.

“The conversation is shifting,” said Senator Brian Schatz, Democrat of Hawaii. “Because even if you don’t believe liberals, even if you don’t believe scientists, you can believe your own eyes.”...

“We can get a fair amount of bipartisanship if we talk about severe weather and resiliency,” Mr. Schatz said. “For some people, it’s just about the phrase ‘climate change’ being too politically loaded.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/14/us/irma-harvey-climate-politics.html

They want to stop the hurricanes? How are they going to do that?

LowDown · Sep 14, 2017

cuban smokes said:
when governors Abbott & Scott are looking at the events of Harvey & Irma that have caused an estimated combined property damage of $500 billion aka half a TRILLION $$$$$$ then they may start to have some deeply polarizing feelings in their behinds ............. and since Abbott & Scott have previously gone on record as being in the climate change 'denier' camp I believe that both Abbott & Scott should REFUSE every offer of federal assistance ............... put your money where your mouths have been, gentlemen ................

That's a pretty stupid thing to say. As a democracy the USA has elected to put a lot of the responsibility for emergency management into the hands of the federal government. It might not be the way I'd do it, but it's the law of the land, and everyone by law is forced to pay for that system with their taxes.

trouble13 · Sep 15, 2017

cuban smokes said:
when governors Abbott & Scott are looking at the events of Harvey & Irma that have caused an estimated combined property damage of $500 billion aka half a TRILLION $$$$$$ then they may start to have some deeply polarizing feelings in their behinds ............. and since Abbott & Scott have previously gone on record as being in the climate change 'denier' camp I believe that both Abbott & Scott should REFUSE every offer of federal assistance ............... put your money where your mouths have been, gentlemen ................

Are you saying that unless you agree that mankind is causing climate.change you should not be elliagable for federal disaster relief?

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Deuce · Sep 16, 2017

LowDown said:
They want to stop the hurricanes? How are they going to do that?

Standard right-wing absolutist nonsense. :roll

You want to end all crime?

Deuce · Sep 16, 2017

cuban smokes said:
when governors Abbott & Scott are looking at the events of Harvey & Irma that have caused an estimated combined property damage of $500 billion aka half a TRILLION $$$$$$ then they may start to have some deeply polarizing feelings in their behinds ............. and since Abbott & Scott have previously gone on record as being in the climate change 'denier' camp I believe that both Abbott & Scott should REFUSE every offer of federal assistance ............... put your money where your mouths have been, gentlemen ................

Abbot & Scott aren't the people suffering from the damage caused. Why would you punish millions of citizens because of two idiots with dumb beliefs?

LowDown · Sep 17, 2017

Deuce said:
Standard right-wing absolutist nonsense. :roll

You want to end all crime?

Saying that proposed solutions should be effective, that the cost should be justified, is "absolutist", eh? How absurd. You would, I suppose, be content with spending $trillions in other people's money to have no detectable effect on the climate as long as you could claim that something was being done.

Again, how do you propose to modify hurricane intensity and fequency? I know of no economically or politically feasible solutions that have been proposed, so I'm asking.

LowDown · Sep 17, 2017

Deuce said:
Standard right-wing absolutist nonsense. :roll

You want to end all crime?

Saying that proposed solutions should be effective, that the cost should be justified, is "absolutist", eh? How absurd. You would, I suppose, be content with spending $trillions in other people's money to have no detectable effect on the climate as long as you could claim that something was being done.

Again, how do you propose to modify hurricane intensity and frequency? I know of no economically or politically feasible solutions that have been proposed, so I'm asking.

Jack Hays · Sep 19, 2017

Climate News
New book: ‘Why Hurricanes Can’t Be Blamed On Global Warming ‘

By Dr. Roy Spencer. Partly in response to the crazy claims of the usual global warming experts (Stevie Wonder, Beyoncé, Jennifer Lawrence, Mark Ruffalo, Bill Nye the Science Guy, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Pope Francis), I decided to write another Kindle e-book. This one is entitled, Inevitable Disaster: Why Hurricanes Can’t Be Blamed On Global Warming. …

. . . For example, two major hurricane strikes endured by the Massachusetts Bay Colony, in 1635 and in 1675, have yet to be rivaled in more modern times. Major hurricane Maria, now approaching Dominica and Guadeloupe, is probably no match for the Great Hurricane of 1780 in the Caribbean, which had estimated winds of 200 mph and killed 20,000 people.
I also address the reasons why Hurricane Harvey and its flooding cannot be blamed on climate change. Regarding Hurricane Irma which recently terrorized Florida, you might be surprised to learn that it is consistent with a downward trend in both the number and intensity of landfalling major Florida hurricanes:

But what has changed is the number of people and amount of infrastructure at risk along the Altantic and Gulf of Mexico coastlines. Before 1900, there were virtually no people residing in Florida. Now its population exceeds 20 million. Miami was incorporated in 1896…with only 300 people. Even if there is no long term change in hurricane activity, hurricane damage will increase as coastal development increases.
I review the science of why major hurricanes in the tropical Atlantic, Caribbean, and Gulf of Mexcico are not limited by sea surface temperatures, which are warm enough every hurricane season to support catastrophic hurricanes. . . .

Deuce · Sep 19, 2017

LowDown said:
Again, how do you propose to modify hurricane intensity and fequency? I know of no economically or politically feasible solutions that have been proposed, so I'm asking.

No, no, no. I'm not letting you get away with that bull****.

"Stop the hurricanes" and "modify hurricane intensity and frequency" is not remotely the same discussion.

flogger · Sep 20, 2017

Deuce said:
No, no, no. I'm not letting you get away with that bull****.

"Stop the hurricanes" and "modify hurricane intensity and frequency" is not remotely the same discussion.

I have no problems whatsoever with you paying a green guilt tax when natural disasters strike

Its when you volunteer the rest of us for it too is when I get a bit tetchy

Deuce · Sep 20, 2017

flogger said:
I have no problems whatsoever with you paying a green guilt tax when natural disasters strike

Its when you volunteer the rest of us for it too is when I get a bit tetchy

When you condemn people to death in the name of corporate profits I get a bit tetchy

flogger · Sep 20, 2017

Deuce said:
When you condemn people to death in the name of corporate profits I get a bit tetchy

And where have I ever done that ?

Media_Truth · Sep 21, 2017

LowDown said:
They want to stop the hurricanes? How are they going to do that?

I didn't see a statement that "they want to stop the hurricanes?". Oh, that's because it wasn't said.

FACT: Warmer air and warmer water increase the probability of a developing hurricane. It also increases the probability of hurricane being more severe than it might have been.

Lord of Planar · Sep 21, 2017

Media_Truth said:
I didn't see a statement that "they want to stop the hurricanes?". Oh, that's because it wasn't said.

FACT: Warmer air and warmer water increase the probability of a developing hurricane. It also increases the probability of hurricane being more severe than it might have been.

Yet he biggest we had on record is 1935...

Media_Truth · Sep 21, 2017

Lord of Planar said:
Yet he biggest we had on record is 1935...

The 1935 Labor Day hurricane was the biggest to make landfall in the US. It was actually relatively small compared to some of the big offshore hurricanes - Sandy, Gilbert. The record is Tip - a Pacific hurricane from 1979.

There's a lot of luck and chance when it comes to hurricanes, with whether or not they reach land, and where. I stand by my statement, as does the scientific community - "Warmer air and warmer water increase the probability of a developing hurricane. It also increases the probability of hurricane being more severe than it might have been."

Lord of Planar · Sep 21, 2017

Media_Truth said:
The 1935 Labor Day hurricane was the biggest to make landfall in the US. It was actually relatively small compared to some of the big offshore hurricanes - Sandy, Gilbert. The record is Tip - a Pacific hurricane from 1979.

There's a lot of luck and chance when it comes to hurricanes, with whether or not they reach land, and where. I stand by my statement, as does the scientific community - "Warmer air and warmer water increase the probability of a developing hurricane. It also increases the probability of hurricane being more severe than it might have been."

Wow...

Even what you said flew over your own head.

If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody was there to see it, did it really fall?

If the largest storm ever is in the Atlantic in 1935, and there was no satellite to see it, it was never there, right?

The fact that we had storms as strong and stronger in the 30's implies we also had storms as strong and stronger that never made land fall.

Media_Truth · Sep 21, 2017

Lord of Planar said:
Wow...

Even what you said flew over your own head.

If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody was there to see it, did it really fall?

If the largest storm ever is in the Atlantic in 1935, and there was no satellite to see it, it was never there, right?

The fact that we had storms as strong and stronger in the 30's implies we also had storms as strong and stronger that never made land fall.

Are you disagreeing with my statement, or do you want to continue to argue ghosts? Thank you for agreeing with the statement - in advance.

countryboy · Sep 21, 2017

Media_Truth said:
I didn't see a statement that "they want to stop the hurricanes?". Oh, that's because it wasn't said.

FACT: Warmer air and warmer water increase the probability of a developing hurricane. It also increases the probability of hurricane being more severe than it might have been.

Then why has hurricane season been virtually dead for many years. Has the air and water just started warming in the last few weeks? :roll:

FederalRepublic · Sep 21, 2017

cuban smokes said:
when governors Abbott & Scott are looking at the events of Harvey & Irma that have caused an estimated combined property damage of $500 billion aka half a TRILLION $$$$$$ then they may start to have some deeply polarizing feelings in their behinds ............. and since Abbott & Scott have previously gone on record as being in the climate change 'denier' camp I believe that both Abbott & Scott should REFUSE every offer of federal assistance ............... put your money where your mouths have been, gentlemen ................

You are aware that hurricanes are not a new phenomenon, right?

cuban smokes · Sep 21, 2017

FederalRepublic said:
You are aware that hurricanes are not a new phenomenon, right?

I was under the impression that they just started a year, or two ago ..........

but Abbott & Scott should still refuse any Federal assistance since they are both on record as deniers

eace

why deny & then put your hand out?

longview · Sep 21, 2017

cuban smokes said:
I was under the impression that they just started a year, or two ago ..........

but Abbott & Scott should still refuse any Federal assistance since they are both on record as deniers eace

why deny & then put your hand out?

Do they deny the Hurricanes occur?

FederalRepublic · Sep 21, 2017

cuban smokes said:
I was under the impression that they just started a year, or two ago ..........

but Abbott & Scott should still refuse any Federal assistance since they are both on record as deniers eace

why deny & then put your hand out?

Deny what? That hurricanes cause damage?

Media_Truth · Sep 21, 2017

countryboy said:
Then why has hurricane season been virtually dead for many years. Has the air and water just started warming in the last few weeks? :roll:

Hurricane season hasn't been dead. Sandy (2012) was a 900-mile wide hurricane. Contrast that with Katrina, which was only 300 miles wide. Hurricanes have been commonplace, and named in alphabetical order every year. It's by chance that hurricanes hit land.

I'm a little confused, what we are arguing here. Do you disagree that warmer air and warmer water fuel hurricanes?

NYT: Harrowing Storms May Move Climate Debate, if Not G.O.P. Leaders

Visbek

Stuck In The Circle

cuban smokes

LowDown

Curmudgeon

LowDown

Curmudgeon

trouble13

Deuce

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Deuce

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LowDown

Curmudgeon

LowDown

Curmudgeon

Jack Hays

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Deuce

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flogger

Deuce

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flogger

Media_Truth

Lord of Planar

Media_Truth

Lord of Planar

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FederalRepublic

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longview

FederalRepublic

Media_Truth