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Most of The World Could Be 100% Powered With Renewables by 2050

danielpalos said:
Current metrics regarding supply?

So what. Only right-wingers are literally incredible in believing we should not upgrade for modern times.
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I'm pointing out, there isn't a push to upgrade. The left is at fault for pushing for more renewable energy, but not the infrastructure to move it from where it is generated to where it can be used.
 
danielpalos said:
We could insist on better planning. Optimizing for scale economy should provide returns on that investment under any form of Captialism.
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I think you missed my point. We would need to overhaul most of our nations power grid to handle the amount of electricity proposed. We would need vast expensive storage to reduce our on-demand fossil fuel generation. Even with better planning, the short timelines spoke of are the fantasies of the ignorant.
 
danielpalos said:
Pilum and bows and arrows are less expensive. Why upgrade for modern times?
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Non sequitur.

That isn't something that all first world citizens rely on. To switch to just renewable energy, would make electricity cost so much more money, and really hurt the lower class population. I think we would pay at least do8uble what we do not for electricity.

Are you ready for that?
 
Lord of Planar said:
I'm pointing out, there isn't a push to upgrade. The left is at fault for pushing for more renewable energy, but not the infrastructure to move it from where it is generated to where it can be used.
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There is only no push to upgrade infrastructure from the right-wing. Did you know there is no general warfare or common offense clause in our federal Constitution to push for upgrading that
 
Lord of Planar said:
I think you missed my point. We would need to overhaul most of our nations power grid to handle the amount of electricity proposed. We would need vast expensive storage to reduce our on-demand fossil fuel generation. Even with better planning, the short timelines spoke of are the fantasies of the ignorant.
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New Cities in more optimum locations can help make that more feasible and potentially help with weather related issues. Going back to the Articles of Confederation is not an option.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Non sequitur.

That isn't something that all first world citizens rely on. To switch to just renewable energy, would make electricity cost so much more money, and really hurt the lower class population. I think we would pay at least do8uble what we do not for electricity.

Are you ready for that?
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Upgrading mass transit could include supply-side considerations.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I think you missed my point. We would need to overhaul most of our nations power grid to handle the amount of electricity proposed. We would need vast expensive storage to reduce our on-demand fossil fuel generation. Even with better planning, the short timelines spoke of are the fantasies of the ignorant.
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In right-wing fantasy, You are Always Right.
 
danielpalos said:
There is only no push to upgrade infrastructure from the right-wing. Did you know there is no general warfare or common offense clause in our federal Constitution to push for upgrading that
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The right wing isn't pushing the change to electric. It's the responsibility of those pushing renewable energy to push the means to move it from generation to use.
 
danielpalos said:
New Cities in more optimum locations can help make that more feasible and potentially help with weather related issues. Going back to the Articles of Confederation is not an option.
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Non sequitur.
 
danielpalos said:
Upgrading mass transit could include supply-side considerations.
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Do you not understand that a wire can only move so much current? As we increase power demands, the size of our transmission lines need to be increased too. When we increase the demand on electricity, we need to increase the capacity of our electrical grid, and the transmission lines that get the power to it.
 
danielpalos said:
Why do you have any problem with upgrading infrastructure for scale economy and mass transit, along with mass storage?
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On the contrary. We need to start now and dump lots of money into it or we wont be able to have renewable energy on the scale you guys want.

I want to see a national HVDC transmission path between all major electricity suppliers and metropolitan areas.
 
Lord of Planar said:
On the contrary. We need to start now and dump lots of money into it or we wont be able to have renewable energy on the scale you guys want.

I want to see a national HVDC transmission path between all major electricity suppliers and metropolitan areas.
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We can also use seawalls for the general welfare instead of useless landwalls for the general malfare.
 
Lord of Planar said:
That's not my strategy. I'm only pointing out the extra necessary costs to make such a thing happen. We aren't ready for it. The technology isn't cheap enough yet.
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We are past ready for it considering the costs. You are looking at the cost of solar, I'm looking at the cost to everything and everyone by using fossil fuels. How much is it going to cost to clean up our planet and our lungs?
 
bongsaway said:
We are past ready for it considering the costs. You are looking at the cost of solar, I'm looking at the cost to everything and everyone by using fossil fuels. How much is it going to cost to clean up our planet and our lungs?
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That's the key. RIght now fossil fuels are MASSIVELY subsidized by the population and the government. We don't pay the full cost for using these things (as you note cleaning our lungs etc.)

When someone says solar isn't as cheap as fossil fuels is right because fossil fuels are artificially kept cheaper. Our entire energy infrastructure has been built around fossil fuels and as such it will ALWAYS have an economic advantage over any other player.

The other problem with renewables is that it will require changes to our system. It will be unlikely that entire swaths of the country get electricity generated by the exact same system (ie one coal fired power plant) but we will have to work with a "basket of different energy sources".

It WILL cost something. But right now fossil fuels are being used regardless of the downstream costs and we WILL pay that bill one day one way or another.

Better to start NOW than wait.
 
bongsaway said:
We are past ready for it considering the costs. You are looking at the cost of solar, I'm looking at the cost to everything and everyone by using fossil fuels. How much is it going to cost to clean up our planet and our lungs?
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Tell Asia that. Until they play ball, what we do doesn't matter.
 
longview said:
What would you have the US do, beyond what we are already doing?
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In sunny states, every new home built should include solar. In windy states, more windmills, wave power from the oceans just for openers.
 
bongsaway said:
In sunny states, every new home built should include solar. In windy states, more windmills, wave power from the oceans just for openers.
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None of that will matter unless that power can be connected to the grid in a useful way!
How about address the deficiencies in the grid connection laws first?
 
longview said:
None of that will matter unless that power can be connected to the grid in a useful way!
How about address the deficiencies in the grid connection laws first?
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How frigging negative can one be? Sounds like another let's do nothing answer because of A, B and C. That won't happen until the republicans get out of the way and stop pushing fossil fuels. The folks on the right find excuses to do nothing, as a matter of fact the gop has become masters of saying no.
 
bongsaway said:
How frigging negative can one be? Sounds like another let's do nothing answer because of A, B and C. That won't happen until the republicans get out of the way and stop pushing fossil fuels. The folks on the right find excuses to do nothing, as a matter of fact the gop has become masters of saying no.
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You have to build a foundation before you can erect the structure the foundation will support!
Solar and wind will only see limited growth unless we address the grid connection laws first!
 
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