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China already seeing grid surplus issues!

Media_Truth said:
China has "Coal" politics, whereby Coal Power gets precedence over renewables.
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I don't actually care about China's politics, I was using the article to demonstrate that
wind and solar produce power at times when it may net be needed, and the surplus needs to be considered.
 
longview said:
I don't actually care about China's politics, I was using the article to demonstrate that
wind and solar produce power at times when it may net be needed, and the surplus needs to be considered.
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With China's "Coal" politics, even if the renewable power is needed, sometimes they don't use it.
 
Media_Truth said:
With China's "Coal" politics, even if the renewable power is needed, sometimes they don't use it.
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We have little control over what China does.
The best we can do is work on how to solve the US's energy problems.
If we find a good sustainable solution, we can sell it to the Chinese.
We can even give them a good price!
 
Ikari said:
Battery technology is one of the most archaic and ass-backwards things we have right now.
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What??? Just because we are basically using the same battery technology for over a hundred years, you are suggesting we should improve on it? Of course we should.

Right now things like coal, gas, and nuclear offer the best way to store energy until we need it. Build a better way to store energy (aka, a better battery), then coal and gas will go away as a source of energy. I think some of the billions being spent on solar and wind should be diverted to something more productive like finding a better battery.
 
Ikari said:
Battery technology is one of the most archaic and ass-backwards things we have right now.
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Yes, but until we find some method of storing power economically, this rush to make green power is more expensive than it is worth.
 
longview said:
Wasted green power tests China's energy leadership - ABC News
The nature of most of the alternative energy sources is that they produces power in a time cycle that
can be very different than the demand.
Power generated when there is no demand, is simply lost as heat.

43% just turned to heat. If only China had the ability, to store that energy for later use!
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Maybe they'll be the ones to crack it. It most likely won't be the United States at this point.
 
MrPeanut said:
Maybe they'll be the ones to crack it. It most likely won't be the United States at this point.
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It would be nice, but don't count on it as them being any faster resolving the problem as anyone else. The problem at this point is the available service distance. In 1972, the Pacific DC Intertie was on-line. The US had a problem where the Columbia dam system could produce more power than the cities in proximity to use them could use. Sending power to Los Angeles was the solution, but it required non tradition methods for the time. China could do the same thing to make use of their excess power to other regions.
 
natsb said:
What??? Just because we are basically using the same battery technology for over a hundred years, you are suggesting we should improve on it? Of course we should.

Right now things like coal, gas, and nuclear offer the best way to store energy until we need it. Build a better way to store energy (aka, a better battery), then coal and gas will go away as a source of energy. I think some of the billions being spent on solar and wind should be diverted to something more productive like finding a better battery.
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Interesting that you talk of batteries for storage for power plants. The energy conversion efficiency of batteries is often very low, and the expense is very high, at that scale of energy. Maintenance costs and longevity of operation are also factors adding to expense. Pumped water storage, is about 85% efficient. Also this technology is already used all over the world. In addition, the end result is hydroelectric power, which is the best electrical power source for responding to immediate demand.

I can understand looking at battery technology for automobiles, but not electrical generation.
 
MrPeanut said:
Maybe they'll be the ones to crack it. It most likely won't be the United States at this point.
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I think it has already been solved, The Naval Research labs as well as Audi/Sunfire, have working prototypes.
We do not know what research the oil companies have been doing, but they have a history of leading technology.
The only remaining piece, is for market forces to move the price of oil up to it's new natural ceiling.
 
Media_Truth said:
Interesting that you talk of batteries for storage for power plants. The energy conversion efficiency of batteries is often very low, and the expense is very high, at that scale of energy. Maintenance costs and longevity of operation are also factors adding to expense. Pumped water storage, is about 85% efficient. Also this technology is already used all over the world. In addition, the end result is hydroelectric power, which is the best electrical power source for responding to immediate demand.

I can understand looking at battery technology for automobiles, but not electrical generation.
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I think you may have missed my point. A battery is any method of storing energy until it is needed. Currently we don't have any really good replacements for coal, gas, and nuclear. Yes, pumped water works okay, but as you noted, it is not very efficient and not the slightest bit portable. Norway is doing a stellar job in the area of pumped water storage, and I have no doubt that the technology will improve with experience.
 
longview said:
I think it has already been solved, The Naval Research labs as well as Audi/Sunfire, have working prototypes.
We do not know what research the oil companies have been doing, but they have a history of leading technology.
The only remaining piece, is for market forces to move the price of oil up to it's new natural ceiling.
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It's not any more efficient than using batteries, except the energy can be stored indefinitely.
 
Lord of Planar said:
It's not any more efficient than using batteries, except the energy can be stored indefinitely.
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Right, and stored in a package that we already have a demand for, and a distribution infrastructure.
 
longview said:
Right, and stored in a package that we already have a demand for, and a distribution infrastructure.
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Yep. Easily transported with the existing infrastructure.
 
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