• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Less ice core samples now.

Lord of Planar

Lord of Planar

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
66,476
Reaction score
22,153
Location
Portlandia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Seems a coolant system failed, and Canada lost 180 ice cores.

First paragraph:


A precious collection of ice cores from the Canadian Arctic has suffered a catastrophic meltdown. A freezer failure at a cold storage facility in Edmonton run by the University of Alberta (UA) caused 180 of the meter-long ice cylinders to melt, depriving scientists of some of the oldest records of climate change in Canada’s far north.
​

Unique Canadian ice core collection suffers catastrophic meltdown | Science | AAAS

I wonder what proxy history they had that was recorded, and what wasn't...
 
Given that presumably the ice core were in a big industrial freezer and that some sort of alarm would attract the attention of staff when it failed I think it is highly unlikely that the ice cores could not have been moved or the freezer fixed in the 48+ hours they would have had to find a solution.

Big well insulated freezers stay cold for a long time.
 
Tim the plumber said:
Given that presumably the ice core were in a big industrial freezer and that some sort of alarm would attract the attention of staff when it failed I think it is highly unlikely that the ice cores could not have been moved or the freezer fixed in the 48+ hours they would have had to find a solution.

Big well insulated freezers stay cold for a long time.
Click to expand...

Aw, come on. It was in Canada.

;)
 
Tim the plumber said:
Given that presumably the ice core were in a big industrial freezer and that some sort of alarm would attract the attention of staff when it failed I think it is highly unlikely that the ice cores could not have been moved or the freezer fixed in the 48+ hours they would have had to find a solution.

Big well insulated freezers stay cold for a long time.
Click to expand...

Good point. My Wife works in R&D and those systems are normally in place.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Seems a coolant system failed, and Canada lost 180 ice cores.

First paragraph:


A precious collection of ice cores from the Canadian Arctic has suffered a catastrophic meltdown. A freezer failure at a cold storage facility in Edmonton run by the University of Alberta (UA) caused 180 of the meter-long ice cylinders to melt, depriving scientists of some of the oldest records of climate change in Canada’s far north.
​

Unique Canadian ice core collection suffers catastrophic meltdown | Science | AAAS

I wonder what proxy history they had that was recorded, and what wasn't...
Click to expand...

It's not like these ice cores can't be replaced. They don't call Canada the Great White North for nothing. :shrug:
 
Lord of Planar said:
Seems a coolant system failed, and Canada lost 180 ice cores.

First paragraph:


A precious collection of ice cores from the Canadian Arctic has suffered a catastrophic meltdown. A freezer failure at a cold storage facility in Edmonton run by the University of Alberta (UA) caused 180 of the meter-long ice cylinders to melt, depriving scientists of some of the oldest records of climate change in Canada’s far north.
​

Unique Canadian ice core collection suffers catastrophic meltdown | Science | AAAS

I wonder what proxy history they had that was recorded, and what wasn't...
Click to expand...

sure you dont want this in the conspiracy theory section?
 
Lord of Planar said:
Seems a coolant system failed, and Canada lost 180 ice cores.

First paragraph:


A precious collection of ice cores from the Canadian Arctic has suffered a catastrophic meltdown. A freezer failure at a cold storage facility in Edmonton run by the University of Alberta (UA) caused 180 of the meter-long ice cylinders to melt, depriving scientists of some of the oldest records of climate change in Canada’s far north.
​

Unique Canadian ice core collection suffers catastrophic meltdown | Science | AAAS

I wonder what proxy history they had that was recorded, and what wasn't...
Click to expand...

yea this stinks of something else.

Those coolers are set to below freezing. there is no way that it just broke without sounding an alarm and even if it did break the cooler would take a few days to get backup
to temperature to start melting those cores.
 
It is a shame they lost the samples, but most ultracolds have alarms, I guess they did not set it!
Still at 4.4C it should have taken many hours for the cores to turn to water.
 
Captain Adverse said:
It's not like these ice cores can't be replaced. They don't call Canada the Great White North for nothing. :shrug:
Click to expand...

It's the expense and time of going out and drilling for more.
 
ludin said:
yea this stinks of something else.

Those coolers are set to below freezing. there is no way that it just broke without sounding an alarm and even if it did break the cooler would take a few days to get backup
to temperature to start melting those cores.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming it was at a 5 day a week location and happened during the weekend.
 
longview said:
It is a shame they lost the samples, but most ultracolds have alarms, I guess they did not set it!
Still at 4.4C it should have taken many hours for the cores to turn to water.
Click to expand...

The article says it rose to 40 C, not 4.4 C.

40 C is 104 F.
 
Lord of Planar said:
The article says it rose to 40 C, not 4.4 C.

40 C is 104 F.
Click to expand...
Yea, that would have melted them quickly!
It was still below freezing in Edmonton that week,
I wonder how the temp got that high?
 
longview said:
Yea, that would have melted them quickly!
It was still below freezing in Edmonton that week,
I wonder how the temp got that high?
Click to expand...

Could be the building type.

Or maybe someone did sabotage them, cranking up the heat too.

There could have also been running equipment that generates heat.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Could be the building type.
Click to expand...
I seem to visit Edmonton a few times a year, It seems like they keep the buildings unnaturally warm,
I am guessing it is to compensate for how cold it really is outside.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is why wireless temperature alarm systems are needed but most still need to have good batteries.
Click to expand...
My work air conditioners send me emails, if something is amiss.
 
Lord of Planar said:
The article says it rose to 40 C, not 4.4 C.

40 C is 104 F.
Click to expand...

that is like someone turned the heater on.

that shouldn't happen in those mass freezer coolers.
they are insulated to the point it should have lasted a few days.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Seems a coolant system failed, and Canada lost 180 ice cores.

First paragraph:


A precious collection of ice cores from the Canadian Arctic has suffered a catastrophic meltdown. A freezer failure at a cold storage facility in Edmonton run by the University of Alberta (UA) caused 180 of the meter-long ice cylinders to melt, depriving scientists of some of the oldest records of climate change in Canada’s far north.
​

Unique Canadian ice core collection suffers catastrophic meltdown | Science | AAAS

I wonder what proxy history they had that was recorded, and what wasn't...
Click to expand...

I think the word the thread title was struggling - and failing - to find was 'fewer'.
 
longview said:
Yea, that would have melted them quickly!
It was still below freezing in Edmonton that week,
I wonder how the temp got that high?
Click to expand...

All of the other freezers in that building give off heat. Many computer rooms that I had worked in had backup power systems (uninterruptible power supply) for the computers themselves yet not the A/C system required to keep them running. ;)
 
From another article:

On April 2, the temperature of a storage freezer in the Canadian Ice Core Archive rose to about 100 degrees — some part of the cooling system failed, “then tried to get itself back into action and in the process, piped hot air back into the room,” according to Martin Sharp, the director of the archive. The freezer became so hot that it tripped the fire alarm, Dr. Sharp said, and partially or fully melted 180 ice cores collected by government scientists since the mid-1970s from the snowy expanse of the Canadian Arctic.
Click to expand...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/11/climate/ice-cores-melted-freezer-alberta-canada.html?_r=0
 
ttwtt78640 said:
All of the other freezers in that building give off heat. Many computer rooms that I had worked in had backup power systems (uninterruptible power supply) for the computers themselves yet not the A/C system required to keep them running. ;)
Click to expand...
The last few facilities I have had a hand in designing, have the AC units on the motor generator, but not the UPS.
The AC can be off for 60 seconds without much issue, but would require a much larger UPS to to support them.
 
longview said:
The last few facilities I have had a hand in designing, have the AC units on the motor generator, but not the UPS.
The AC can be off for 60 seconds without much issue, but would require a much larger UPS to to support them.
Click to expand...

At one communications site I worked at, we used a 40 KW rotary UPS for the radio power, and a 150 KW quick start for the rest of the building and AC units.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom