• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The dying Aral Sea: victim of mankind

Unitedwestand13

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
20,738
Reaction score
6,290
Location
Sunnyvale California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
The Aral Sea used to be one of the largest bodies of water in the world, but now it is barely existing at all.

Mankind destroyed the Aral Sea through gross agricultural mismanagement and ecological ignorance.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/WorldOfChange/aral_sea.php

In the 1960s, the Soviet Union undertook a major water diversion project on the arid plains of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan. The region’s two major rivers, fed by snowmelt and precipitation in faraway mountains, were used to transform the desert into farms for cotton and other crops. Before the project, the Syr Darya and the Amu Darya rivers flowed down from the mountains, cut northwest through the Kyzylkum Desert, and finally pooled together in the lowest part of the basin. The lake they made, the Aral Sea, was once the fourth largest in the world.

Although irrigation made the desert bloom, it devastated the Aral Sea. This series of images from the Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS) on NASA’s Terra satellite documents the changes. At the start of the series in 2000, the lake was already a fraction of its 1960 extent (yellow line). The Northern Aral Sea (sometimes called the Small Aral Sea) had separated from the Southern (Large) Aral Sea. The Southern Aral Sea had split into eastern and western lobes that remained tenuously connected at both ends.
By 2001, the southern connection had been severed, and the shallower eastern part retreated rapidly over the next several years. Especially large retreats in the eastern lobe of the Southern Sea appear to have occurred between 2005 and 2009, when drought limited and then cut off the flow of the Amu Darya. Water levels then fluctuated annually between 2009 and 2016 in alternately dry and wet years. In 2014, the Southern Sea’s eastern lobe completely disappeared.
 
This was in 2000...what does it look like today?
 
The Aral Sea used to be one of the largest bodies of water in the world, but now it is barely existing at all.

Mankind destroyed the Aral Sea through gross agricultural mismanagement and ecological ignorance.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/WorldOfChange/aral_sea.php

The Soviets knew the sea would disappear, they decided that the water for agriculture was more important.

Really the fact is, what is more important? a big lake? or thriving farm fields? really the only thing that makes the Aral Sea unique is the size of loss, but we've done the same thing? do you like having drinking water in LA? well go up 395 through the valley and tell me about Lake Owens, it too is gone for irrigation purposes.

The real crime was mismanagment of the irrigation in Uzbekistan
 
Last edited:
We know how to fix that now...give the lake the legal rights of a human, then charge the humans assaulting it by depriving it of water with assault.

*sarcasm*
 
This was in 2000...what does it look like today?

Apparently, like this:

external
 
The Soviets knew the sea would disappear, they decided that the water for agriculture was more important.

Really the fact is, what is more important? a big lake? or thriving farm fields? really the only thing that makes the Aral Sea unique is the size of loss, but we've done the same thing? do you like having drinking water in LA? well go up 395 through the valley and tell me about Lake Owens, it too is gone for irrigation purposes.

The real crime was mismanagment of the irrigation in Uzbekistan

I agree that the crime is mismanagement, but the Aral Sea is a human made environmental disaster by any definition. The Dust Bowl is another prime example of a man made environmental disaster.
 
I agree that the crime is mismanagement, but the Aral Sea is a human made environmental disaster by any definition. The Dust Bowl is another prime example of a man made environmental disaster.

Maybe so, and actually I really want to tour the Aral Sea, just the political situation in Uzbekistan is such I'm not comfortable going there, but that said, I don't fault the Soviets for making a water project at the Sea's expense. infrastructure projects usually do have some environmental impact, and really having a civilization of any kind will have impacts on the environment. It is not nessecarily evil to think that irrigation water's value exceeded that of having a salt lake.
 
Maybe so, and actually I really want to tour the Aral Sea, just the political situation in Uzbekistan is such I'm not comfortable going there, but that said, I don't fault the Soviets for making a water project at the Sea's expense. infrastructure projects usually do have some environmental impact, and really having a civilization of any kind will have impacts on the environment. It is not nessecarily evil to think that irrigation water's value exceeded that of having a salt lake.

It sounds like common sense dont it....
 
I agree that the crime is mismanagement, but the Aral Sea is a human made environmental disaster by any definition. The Dust Bowl is another prime example of a man made environmental disaster.

like I said, this environmental catastrophe was created so people could live in the LA basin with drinking water. far smaller scale, but same thing

owen lake.jpg
 
like I said, this environmental catastrophe was created so people could live in the LA basin with drinking water. far smaller scale, but same thing

View attachment 67216207
Yes, and farther up the Owens Valley there's Mono Lake, which was drying up before that Commie Pinko (yes sarcasm) organization, the Sierra Club started working on it. On the other side of the mountains is where the biggest lake in California, the biggest freshwater lake in the country outside the great lakes, used to be. Now, it's gone, completely dried up.

It could be that the Earth doesn't have enough fresh water to continue to support seven billion humans indefinitely, at least until and unless we learn to efficiently desalinate sea water. Aquifers all over the world are drying up.
 
like I said, this environmental catastrophe was created so people could live in the LA basin with drinking water. far smaller scale, but same thing

View attachment 67216207

I'm up the OV and at OL all the time.

It's no longer even remotely an environmental catastrophe (although it was for many years) due to the remediation efforts between some local groups and the LADWP.
 
Tough place to build in some areas, and the developers don't let the buyers know what they are in for in the sloped regions.

No, they don't.

There's a low lying area near here next to the San Joaquin that flooded in '97 when we got a warm rain on top of a big snowpack. A couple of years later, the builders wanted to build houses in that same area.
Luckily, saner heads prevailed, and the area is a park, sans buildings that would be damaged in a flood.

A heavy warm rain in the next couple of months could produce a similar flood.
 
No, they don't.

There's a low lying area near here next to the San Joaquin that flooded in '97 when we got a warm rain on top of a big snowpack. A couple of years later, the builders wanted to build houses in that same area.
Luckily, saner heads prevailed, and the area is a park, sans buildings that would be damaged in a flood.

A heavy warm rain in the next couple of months could produce a similar flood.

No

More people have learned the risk from their insurance companies than developers and builders.
 
No

More people have learned the risk from their insurance companies than developers and builders.

Yes, and sometimes after the purchase has already been made.

Developers are great at building houses where no houses should be, like at the foot of hills prone to mudslides, or in the chaparral of the foothills, which normally burns off every few years.
 
The Soviets knew the sea would disappear, they decided that the water for agriculture was more important.

Really the fact is, what is more important? a big lake? or thriving farm fields? really the only thing that makes the Aral Sea unique is the size of loss, but we've done the same thing? do you like having drinking water in LA? well go up 395 through the valley and tell me about Lake Owens, it too is gone for irrigation purposes.

The real crime was mismanagment of the irrigation in Uzbekistan

Yes, just look at the Colorado River today. Does it even have any water left to go to the ocean at the end of its journey any longer?
 
I'm up the OV and at OL all the time.

It's no longer even remotely an environmental catastrophe (although it was for many years) due to the remediation efforts between some local groups and the LADWP.

There also remains no lake, and winds still kick up contaminated dust storms, not as bad as they once were now that they allow some water to reach the lake bed, but that area will never be the same
 
There also remains no lake, and winds still kick up contaminated dust storms, not as bad as they once were now that they allow some water to reach the lake bed, but that area will never be the same

Dust has been been reduced by 96%, there are wildlife habitats across the entire lake (seven specific ones), there's a trail system for the public, etc...

No, it will never be what it was, but it's just not the catastrophe that it once was.

Owens Lake Project | Documenting the environmental issues of this broken but beautiful place
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom