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The Warmists' Conspiracy Theory

Jack Hays

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The warmists are spinning up an elaborate conspiracy theory about President-elect Trump. I wonder whether Stefan Lewandowsky will research their "ideation?"


The latest climate ‘conspiracy theory’

Posted on December 15, 2016 | 18 comments
by Judith Curry
Guess who the new climate ‘conspiracy theorists’ are?
Continue reading

Guess who the new climate ‘conspiracy theorists’ are?

When I first saw this published in the WaPo, I thought it was a joke: Why I’m trying to preserve federal climate data before Trump takes office. Excerpts:
Trump is serious about overtly declaring war on science. This isn’t a presidential transition. It’s an Inquisition. It’s a 21st-century book burning. The incoming administration is likely to be willfully hostile toward the scientific process, with far-reaching implications.
One of the most tangible consequences of sharp cutbacks in federal funding for climate science is the potential loss of critical data — whether by neglect or malice — that underlie global efforts to understand our climate system. By all accounts, that’s exactly what Trump and his team want: Ignorance of how human actions are affecting our planet makes it easier to maintain the status quo. . . .

JC reflections
The definition of ‘conspiracy theory’:
A conspiracy theory is an explanation of an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy without warrant, generally one involving an illegal or harmful act carried out by government or other powerful actors.
‘Without warrant’ is key here; there is simply no evidence to support the crazy ideas and fears about the Trump administration’s policy about climate science — simply, because he apparently hasn’t even started thinking about it yet, including appointments for the Undersecretary of NOAA, the Administrator of NASA, etc. Zurbechan’s statement is exactly correct: “behave like scientists,” and wait for evidence of what the new administration wants to do.


JC message to the alarmed scientist/advocates:
Get over it, your side lost. Changes of Presidential administrations occur every 4 or 8 years, often with changes in political parties.
Get busy and shore up your scientific arguments; I suspect that argument from consensus won’t sway many minds in the Trump administration.
Overt activism and climate policy advocacy by climate scientists will not help your ’cause’; leave such advocacy to the environmental groups.
Behave like a scientist, and don’t build elaborate conspiracy theories based on conflicting signals from the Trump administration. Stop embarrassing yourselves; wait for the evidence.
Be flexible; if funding priorities change, and you desire federal research funding, work on different problems. The days of needing to sell all research in terms of AGW are arguably over.
Open your minds to different perspectives and interpretations of scientific evidence.
If you are advocating for policies, do some serious homework about the policy process, economics, and unintended consequences of technologies and policies.
Understand that climate policies are not the only, or even primary, driver for energy policy.

18 Comments
Posted in Sociology of science
 
The warmists are spinning up an elaborate conspiracy theory about President-elect Trump.

Judith Curry said:
...there is simply no evidence to support the crazy ideas and fears about the Trump administration’s policy about climate science

Really Jack? No evidence and its just an elaborate conspiracy theory? What about all the evidence you and others presented in that thread you started? You remember don't you? You just posted in it just a couple days ago.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/environment-and-climate-issues/269849-big-changes-coming-us-climate-and-environment-policy.html

This one from Threegoofs was especially disturbing:

http://https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/22/nasa-earth-donald-trump-eliminate-climate-change-research?CMP=twt_gu

Do you even read and/or comprehend the stuff you cut and paste?

I wonder whether Stefan Lewandowsky will research their "ideation?"

If he does you would be a perfect subject to study.
 
Really Jack? No evidence and its just an elaborate conspiracy theory? What about all the evidence you and others presented in that thread you started? You remember don't you? You just posted in it just a couple days ago.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/environment-and-climate-issues/269849-big-changes-coming-us-climate-and-environment-policy.html

This one from Threegoofs was especially disturbing:

http://https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/22/nasa-earth-donald-trump-eliminate-climate-change-research?CMP=twt_gu

Do you even read and/or comprehend the stuff you cut and paste?



If he does you would be a perfect subject to study.

"Changes in policy" do not constitute a conspiracy, and 3G's post/link actually makes my point. And yes, I read what I post; the difference between us is that I understand it, too.
 
"Changes in policy" do not constitute a conspiracy, and 3G's post/link actually makes my point. And yes, I read what I post; the difference between us is that I understand it, too.

No Jack... you do not understand. I know I'm probably wasting my time trying to explain this to you... but what the hell...

Scientists are scared that Trump and the republican controlled Congress are going to stop funding and/or shut down government research of climate change. You called this fear "The Warmists' Conspiracy Theory" and cited Judith Curry's stupid article that claims that there is no evidence that this is going to happen. And now your claiming that an article that states that Trump is going to shut down NASA climate research backs you up.

Are you insane or just stupid?
 
No Jack... you do not understand. I know I'm probably wasting my time trying to explain this to you... but what the hell...

Scientists are scared that Trump and the republican controlled Congress are going to stop funding and/or shut down government research of climate change. You called this fear "The Warmists' Conspiracy Theory" and cited Judith Curry's stupid article that claims that there is no evidence that this is going to happen. And now your claiming that an article that states that Trump is going to shut down NASA climate research backs you up.

Are you insane or just stupid?

The Guardian article is so thinly sourced as to almost be "fake news." It is definitely rooted in conspiracy theory thinking. The article is not evidence of anything but the author's paranoia.
 
The Guardian article is so thinly sourced as to almost be "fake news." It is definitely rooted in conspiracy theory thinking. The article is not evidence of anything but the author's paranoia.

Ahhhh.... so now all of a sudden it doesn't back you up and is just "fake news". I guess all the other numerous articles you and others posted in that other thread you started that suggests that Trump is going to damage climate science is just fake news as well.

Jack... you need to realize that you have started two threads that basically say the opposite of each other. Either there is no evidence that Trump is going to destroy or damage climate science like Curry says or there is plenty of evidence that Trump is going to destroy or damage climate science as stated in your other thread. You can't have it both ways.
 
Ahhhh.... so now all of a sudden it doesn't back you up and is just "fake news". I guess all the other numerous articles you and others posted in that other thread you started that suggests that Trump is going to damage climate science is just fake news as well.

Jack... you need to realize that you have started two threads that basically say the opposite of each other. Either there is no evidence that Trump is going to destroy or damage climate science like Curry says or there is plenty of evidence that Trump is going to destroy or damage climate science as stated in your other thread. You can't have it both ways.

I see that I will have to assume I'm dealing with an unsophisticated reader. The Guardian article backs me up because it's almost "fake news." It's a fine example of irrational conspiracy theory thinking.

Trump's planned policy changes will, IMHO, strengthen climate science and repair the damage caused by advocacy masquerading as research. There's no contradiction.
 
I see that I will have to assume I'm dealing with an unsophisticated reader.

O.k... I probably deserved that even though nothing I'm saying here suggests I'm unsophisticated. You certainly haven't proven anything I'm saying here is wrong.

The Guardian article backs me up because it's almost "fake news."

Damn Jack... First the article backs you up. Then it doesn't because it is fake news. And now it does back you up because it's almost fake news. Your desperation to not admit your wrong is hilarious.

It's a fine example of irrational conspiracy theory thinking.

It is not an irrational conspiracy theory when it is based on the words of a senior Trump campaign adviser. Remember... Curry said there was NO evidence. This IS evidence no matter what irrational arguments you make.

Trump's planned policy changes will, IMHO, strengthen climate science and repair the damage caused by advocacy masquerading as research. There's no contradiction.

IMHO climate science will be damaged by AGW denialism masquerading as real science. And Trump and republicans are going to be in a position put AGW denialism into climate science. Hopefully this will all just end up being another Trump campaign lie but I don't think that even if he doesn't mess with climate research that he will stop republicans from doing it anyway.
 
Damn Jack... First the article backs you up. Then it doesn't because it is fake news. And now it does back you up because it's almost fake news. Your desperation to not admit your wrong is hilarious.

My point was the same throughout. Your failure to grasp it caused me to become progressively more elementary in my presentation.
 
It is not an irrational conspiracy theory when it is based on the words of a senior Trump campaign adviser. Remember... Curry said there was NO evidence. This IS evidence no matter what irrational arguments you make.

And Curry was right; off-hand campaign remarks are not evidence of anything.
 
My point was the same throughout. Your failure to grasp it caused me to become progressively more elementary in my presentation.

Really?? Maybe you should clarify your point because your arguments are clearly contradictory if they are being used to back up Curry's contention that there is no evidence that Trump will harm climate research.

And Curry was right; off-hand campaign remarks are not evidence of anything.

So... someone from the Trump camp making a statement about what Trump is going to do isn't even evidence of what Trump might do? What a bunch of nonsense.

It is comments like this that just cement my decision to consider you a climate science denier.

And there are other articles posted in that other thread of yours that provides evidence of what Trump and republicans are going to do to climate science. It is not just the Guardian article.
 
Really?? Maybe you should clarify your point because your arguments are clearly contradictory if they are being used to back up Curry's contention that there is no evidence that Trump will harm climate research.



So... someone from the Trump camp making a statement about what Trump is going to do isn't even evidence of what Trump might do? What a bunch of nonsense.

It is comments like this that just cement my decision to consider you a climate science denier.

And there are other articles posted in that other thread of yours that provides evidence of what Trump and republicans are going to do to climate science. It is not just the Guardian article.

My point was and remains the Guardian article is the kind of paranoid effusion Curry was writing about.

It was famously observed during the campaign (by The Atlantic IIRC) that reporters took Trump literally but not seriously, while his supporters took him seriously but not literally. And believe me when I say your consideration of me is a matter of deep indifference.
 
My point was and remains the Guardian article is the kind of paranoid effusion Curry was writing about.

:lol: Problem is you never made this point about the Guardian article until later in this discussion. You just started out by disagreeing with my citing of this article as evidence against Curry's contention that there was no evidence that Trump is going to harm climate science. So... this is how you rationalize your misinformation. You change the arguments of a debate in your own mind and then just expect everyone else to have read your mind.

It was famously observed during the campaign (by The Atlantic IIRC) that reporters took Trump literally but not seriously, while his supporters took him seriously but not literally.

And now we shouldn't take Trump promises literally because his supporters don't. Are you really using this as an argument? Do you realize that this is just another logical fallacy?

And believe me when I say your consideration of me is a matter of deep indifference.

The question that is more important is whether or not you are indifferent to being proven wrong all the time. It is obvious to me that you are because if you cared one would expect you to learn from these discussions... but you never do.
 
:lol: Problem is you never made this point about the Guardian article until later in this discussion. You just started out by disagreeing with my citing of this article as evidence against Curry's contention that there was no evidence that Trump is going to harm climate science. So... this is how you rationalize your misinformation. You change the arguments of a debate in your own mind and then just expect everyone else to have read your mind.



And now we shouldn't take Trump promises literally because his supporters don't. Are you really using this as an argument? Do you realize that this is just another logical fallacy?



The question that is more important is whether or not you are indifferent to being proven wrong all the time. It is obvious to me that you are because if you cared one would expect you to learn from these discussions... but you never do.

The next time I'm proven wrong by you will be the first time.
I made the point about the Guardian article from the first, but as I later explained, you didn't get it.
I didn't vote for Trump and I'm not invested, but yes -- if you're interested in sorting out what's coming you would be wise to understand how his campaign did things.
 
The warmists are spinning up an elaborate conspiracy theory about President-elect Trump. I wonder whether Stefan Lewandowsky will research their "ideation?"


The latest climate ‘conspiracy theory’

[FONT=&]Posted on December 15, 2016 | 18 comments[/FONT]
by Judith Curry
Guess who the new climate ‘conspiracy theorists’ are?
Continue reading

Guess who the new climate ‘conspiracy theorists’ are?

When I first saw this published in the WaPo, I thought it was a joke: Why I’m trying to preserve federal climate data before Trump takes office. Excerpts:
Trump is serious about overtly declaring war on science. This isn’t a presidential transition. It’s an Inquisition. It’s a 21st-century book burning. The incoming administration is likely to be willfully hostile toward the scientific process, with far-reaching implications.
One of the most tangible consequences of sharp cutbacks in federal funding for climate science is the potential loss of critical data — whether by neglect or malice — that underlie global efforts to understand our climate system. By all accounts, that’s exactly what Trump and his team want: Ignorance of how human actions are affecting our planet makes it easier to maintain the status quo. . . .

JC reflections
[clipped for length]

People tend to come up with conspiracy theories when their world view is completely invalidated by events.

If Trump was even half way like what they say he is then I'd be going crazy with fear myself. But the facts don't support their version of Trump.
 
O.k... I probably deserved that even though nothing I'm saying here suggests I'm unsophisticated. You certainly haven't proven anything I'm saying here is wrong.



Damn Jack... First the article backs you up. Then it doesn't because it is fake news. And now it does back you up because it's almost fake news. Your desperation to not admit your wrong is hilarious.



It is not an irrational conspiracy theory when it is based on the words of a senior Trump campaign adviser. Remember... Curry said there was NO evidence. This IS evidence no matter what irrational arguments you make.



IMHO climate science will be damaged by AGW denialism masquerading as real science. And Trump and republicans are going to be in a position put AGW denialism into climate science. Hopefully this will all just end up being another Trump campaign lie but I don't think that even if he doesn't mess with climate research that he will stop republicans from doing it anyway.

Jack's argument is very easy to see.

To not see it is an act of deliberate ignorance and denial.

The point is that without evidence the Guardian has decieded that Trump is out to stop climate science research. That this is a conspiricy of the anti-alarmist crowd, however you wish to call us.

That this shows that there is in fact a general political climate of support for science which supports the alarmist position rather than real research is obvious.
 
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