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Growing food with locally desalnated sea water

longview

longview

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longview said:
Some people are starting to think outside the box.
I was wondering about the cost recoup, but they say the farm produces 17,000 tons of tomatoes per year.
Assuming a rough $1 per pound price, would about $34 million a year in net income.
The cost of the first facility was supposed to be 200, Million, but I suspect the lessons learned, would make later one cheaper.
Desert farm grows 180,000 tomato plants using only sun and seawater | MNN - Mother Nature Network
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Wrong - it would be $34,000,000 in annual gross revenue - not net income.

Revenue - expenses = income.
 
longview said:
You are right!
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The key is an actual cost comparison to current growing methods to see which is better.

There is a tendency to brag about new methods that turn out to not be cost effective.

This sounds to good to be true, which makes me wonder if it really is.
 
longview said:
Some people are starting to think outside the box.
I was wondering about the cost recoup, but they say the farm produces 17,000 tons of tomatoes per year.
Assuming a rough $1 per pound price, would about $34 million a year in net income.
The cost of the first facility was supposed to be 200, Million, but I suspect the lessons learned, would make later one cheaper.
Desert farm grows 180,000 tomato plants using only sun and seawater | MNN - Mother Nature Network
Click to expand...

They claim that at any given time they have $50-60 million worth of crop onsite:
https://agfundernews.com/how-privat...-spending-100m-on-indoor-agriculture5733.html
 
SMTA said:
The key is an actual cost comparison to current growing methods to see which is better.

There is a tendency to brag about new methods that turn out to not be cost effective.

This sounds to good to be true, which makes me wonder if it really is.
Click to expand...
I think with stuff like this there is a steep learning curve.
One of the real problems facing the world is fresh water, the ability to grow viable crops without fresh water is
move in the right direction.
 
Looks good and almost economic...

So I don't think it is likely to be used much yet but if we wish to grow lots more food then there is a vast amount of desert which could be used in this fashion. Much more than the land we currently use for growing food.
 
Tim the plumber said:
Looks good and almost economic...

So I don't think it is likely to be used much yet but if we wish to grow lots more food then there is a vast amount of desert which could be used in this fashion. Much more than the land we currently use for growing food.
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How many foods both can take the heat and have that level of tonnage per acre? Even here they need to cool the space to work, and they need 200 people to run the joint. It is an interesting experiment but I dont know that it works without government subsidies and if they have to sell their product on the open market (in this case they got a grocery chain to buy their product on a ten year contract, at what prices we dont know but I bet it is at above market rates).
 
Hawkeye10 said:
How many foods both can take the heat and have that level of tonnage per acre? Even here they need to cool the space to work, and they need 200 people to run the joint. It is an interesting experiment but I dont know that it works without government subsidies and if they have to sell their product on the open market (in this case they got a grocery chain to buy their product on a ten year contract, at what prices we dont know but I bet it is at above market rates).
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Yes, that was my point. If humanity grows to say, 20 billion then the price of food would be more than today. With a 50% increase in food priices this looks like it would work.

Or of course if the world gets richer, that's better at making stuff, then the cost of making the desalinization plant will be less.
 
Tim the plumber said:

Yes, that was my point. If humanity grows to say, 20 billion then the price of food would be more than today. With a 50% increase in food priices this looks like it would work.

Or of course if the world gets richer, that's better at making stuff, then the cost of making the desalinization plant will be less.
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War and petulance will keep the population numbers down, we are at near peak human populations.
 
longview said:
I think with stuff like this there is a steep learning curve.
One of the real problems facing the world is fresh water, the ability to grow viable crops without fresh water is
move in the right direction.
Click to expand...

Given that the IPCC points out that a significant threat to fresh water availability is the impact of climate change, it seems like thinking about prevention is as important as expensive mitigation.

You really should read the document. Lots of relevant stuff in there!

Freshwater resources and their management - AR4 WGII Summary for Policymakers
 
Threegoofs said:
Given that the IPCC points out that a significant threat to fresh water availability is the impact of climate change, it seems like thinking about prevention is as important as expensive mitigation.

You really should read the document. Lots of relevant stuff in there!

Freshwater resources and their management - AR4 WGII Summary for Policymakers
Click to expand...
I am familiar with what the IPCC says about fresh water, but the problem existed before, and will likely exists after the IPCC ceases operation.
We have an energy and a fresh water problem, that is much greater dangers than any posed by AGW.
Even if no warming was present, the problem of energy and fresh water would still exists.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
War and petulance will keep the population numbers down, we are at near peak human populations.
Click to expand...

We have the highest ever human population. It may increase as we are in the least violent time ever (give or take a bit) and the ability of human health care to protect us just keeps getting better.
 
Tim the plumber said:
We have the highest ever human population. It may increase as we are in the least violent time ever (give or take a bit) and the ability of human health care to protect us just keeps getting better.
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We are losing the war on the bugs as civilization is breaking down, this train only goes to one place, lots of death.

Then too nuclear terrorism will kill tens of millions at the least.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
We are losing the war on the bugs as civilization is breaking down, this train only goes to one place, lots of death.

Then too nuclear terrorism will kill tens of millions at the least.
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What gibberish are you talking about?

What is it with lots of humans and this great death fixation/fantasy???
 
Tim the plumber said:
What gibberish are you talking about?

What is it with lots of humans and this great death fixation/fantasy???
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It is call reasonable rational evaluation of reality.

I dont know you, maybe this is not something that you are into.

THat fact that you go straight for the insult indicates that you have other preferences.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
It is call reasonable rational evaluation of reality.

I dont know you, maybe this is not something that you are into.

THat fact that you go straight for the insult indicates that you have other preferences.
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Perhaps you can say exactly what mechanism it is you think will cause all the destruction you alluded to with some sort of intelligent eplaination of ait all. Untill then it is simply death fantasy gibberish.
 
Tim the plumber said:
Perhaps you can say exactly what mechanism it is you think will cause all the destruction you alluded to with some sort of intelligent eplaination of ait all. Untill then it is simply death fantasy gibberish.
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I should not have to, because you should know that managing bugs successfully requires that people work together, and you should be aware enough to know that increasingly we dont.

I am only looking to talk to people who dont need extensive tutoring.

Civility is nice too.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I should not have to, because you should know that managing bugs requires people to work together, and you should be aware enough to know that increasingly we dont.

I am only looking to talk to people who dont need extensive tutoring.

Civility is nice too.
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I ask again what the hell you are talking about?

Are you saying that pest control in agriculture is not managed well and that farmers will not co-operate with each other well? Or something about government or what?

We grow loads more food than ever. We have the capacity to grow vastly more with little price increase. We have better control of nature than ever. The technologies we are researching and inventing are looking like being far better than we have today. What is the death fantasy thing???
 
Tim the plumber said:
I ask again what the hell you are talking about?

Are you saying that pest control in agriculture is not managed well and that farmers will not co-operate with each other well? Or something about government or what?

We grow loads more food than ever. We have the capacity to grow vastly more with little price increase. We have better control of nature than ever. The technologies we are researching and inventing are looking like being far better than we have today. What is the death fantasy thing???
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Bugs=microbes
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Bugs=microbes
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So what pesilence or disease is more dangerous to us now than the diseases of the past were then?

Any past you care to choose will do.

You can see why I see it as utter gibberish with a fantasy about lots of people dying. You not having a clue what you are talking about and all.
 
Tim the plumber said:

So what pesilence or disease is more dangerous to us now than the diseases of the past were then?

Any past you care to choose will do.

You can see why I see it as utter gibberish with a fantasy about lots of people dying. You not having a clue what you are talking about and all.
Click to expand...

You might want to read up on the subject of war on microbes, as clearly you have no clue what is going on.
 
Tim the plumber said:

Yes, that was my point. If humanity grows to say, 20 billion then the price of food would be more than today. With a 50% increase in food priices this looks like it would work.

Or of course if the world gets richer, that's better at making stuff, then the cost of making the desalinization plant will be less.
Click to expand...

Desalinating water with the daytime excess of solar power is probably a good endeavor. We could pipe water to the below sea level areas of Death valley without pumps. Store water for use as needed, and build desert farms.

Seems like a worth while use of the federal funds for startup, and let commercial farming pay the government for the water.

This could be done with PV panels instead of building with the ridiculous molten salt type.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Desalinating water with the daytime excess of solar power is probably a good endeavor. We could pipe water to the below sea level areas of Death valley without pumps. Store water for use as needed, and build desert farms.

Seems like a worth while use of the federal funds for startup, and let commercial farming pay the government for the water.

This could be done with PV panels instead of building with the ridiculous molten salt type.
Click to expand...
I was thinking just a glass collection system, shallow water troughs under slopped glass,
the evaporated water collect on the glass and is sent to fresh water tanks.
The troughs would have to be designed in such a way as to remove the salt build up,
perhaps big enough to allow a bobcat in.
 
longview said:
I was thinking just a glass collection system, shallow water troughs under slopped glass,
the evaporated water collect on the glass and is sent to fresh water tanks.
The troughs would have to be designed in such a way as to remove the salt build up,
perhaps big enough to allow a bobcat in.
Click to expand...

That works too in a desert environment.

However, you are enclosing a very large area vs. a relatively small return.
 
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