• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions today.

Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

[h=2]New Science 26: The solar fall and the delay means David Evans’ predicted global cooling could be just around the corner[/h]
We are ramping up the end of this series because we’ve been informed that both of David’s papers will be published in October — one on the error in the climate models and one on the notch delay solar theory.
There are emphatic (and ignorant) claims that David’s predictions have failed, and a flaw was found — both are wrong. After all that fuss and pointless flamewars, his prediction remains almost exactly the same as it was in 2014. It is still untested. It is a strange coincidence of timing that the theory is up for a critical trial so definitively, so soon, but there it is. The fall in solar radiation that happened in 2004 is one of the three largest in 400 years. We are waiting to see if that will have an effect, after the expected delay of one sunspot cycle. For a real scientist there is no shame in putting an idea up on the chopping block. Hypothesize, test, and observe. As David says: “If the predicted cooling does not eventuate then the notch-delay hypothesis is false.” Without real predictions, it’s not real science.
But prediction is a risky business. There are so many ways things can go wrong, and we’ve had pleas from wise souls warning David not to put out an exact number and date. But he has always gone with the numbers, unemotionally shifting gears as the data swung. (I’ve seen him once coolly drop 18 months of work entirely when new information came in.) From the start, he has said that if the cooling doesn’t happen by 2022 then something is very wrong with the hypothesis. If the delay between solar TSI (as measured by PMOD) is really a half solar cycle, then some cooling effect should be visible soon — it will most likely start in 2017, but it may take ’til 2022 (it’s a technical thing — depending on whether the step function was “causal” as opposed to “non-causal”, see below). Of course, El Ninos or other natural variations may cloud the signal. If a volcano erupts, or a La Nina kicks in, it will take longer to filter the noise.
For the sake of the public “debate” notice that the fall in solar radiation (TSI) is a fall in smoothed data — averaged over 11 years. We expect Leif Svalgaard to continue to deny there was a fall. He’s talking about his data, and ignoring the smoothing. David discusses the different datasets below.
David’s overarching prediction is that the 2020s will be no warmer than the 1980s, which should kill off the carbon dioxide theory of global warming.
In the end, we’re only talking of ~0.3 °C of cooling, which is significant on a global scale, but not something you’ll notice in the garden at home. . . .

Thanks for the update!
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

[h=2]New Science 26: The solar fall and the delay means David Evans’ predicted global cooling could be just around the corner[/h]
We are ramping up the end of this series because we’ve been informed that both of David’s papers will be published in October — one on the error in the climate models and one on the notch delay solar theory.
There are emphatic (and ignorant) claims that David’s predictions have failed, and a flaw was found — both are wrong. After all that fuss and pointless flamewars, his prediction remains almost exactly the same as it was in 2014. It is still untested. It is a strange coincidence of timing that the theory is up for a critical trial so definitively, so soon, but there it is. The fall in solar radiation that happened in 2004 is one of the three largest in 400 years. We are waiting to see if that will have an effect, after the expected delay of one sunspot cycle. For a real scientist there is no shame in putting an idea up on the chopping block. Hypothesize, test, and observe. As David says: “If the predicted cooling does not eventuate then the notch-delay hypothesis is false.” Without real predictions, it’s not real science.
But prediction is a risky business. There are so many ways things can go wrong, and we’ve had pleas from wise souls warning David not to put out an exact number and date. But he has always gone with the numbers, unemotionally shifting gears as the data swung. (I’ve seen him once coolly drop 18 months of work entirely when new information came in.) From the start, he has said that if the cooling doesn’t happen by 2022 then something is very wrong with the hypothesis. If the delay between solar TSI (as measured by PMOD) is really a half solar cycle, then some cooling effect should be visible soon — it will most likely start in 2017, but it may take ’til 2022 (it’s a technical thing — depending on whether the step function was “causal” as opposed to “non-causal”, see below). Of course, El Ninos or other natural variations may cloud the signal. If a volcano erupts, or a La Nina kicks in, it will take longer to filter the noise.
For the sake of the public “debate” notice that the fall in solar radiation (TSI) is a fall in smoothed data — averaged over 11 years. We expect Leif Svalgaard to continue to deny there was a fall. He’s talking about his data, and ignoring the smoothing. David discusses the different datasets below.
David’s overarching prediction is that the 2020s will be no warmer than the 1980s, which should kill off the carbon dioxide theory of global warming.
In the end, we’re only talking of ~0.3 °C of cooling, which is significant on a global scale, but not something you’ll notice in the garden at home. . . .


Thanks for the update!


David Evans and his mysterious undetectable Force X from Outer Space (no wait! It's Force ND now!) 'theory' on his wife's (Jo Nova) climate truther conspiracy blog?

Are climate truthers really so confused and gullible that they'll believe utter unscientific blog pseudoscience claptrap like this? Apparently so.

Don't forget to give generously to Jo and David's Tip Jar so they can keep doing their important...erm.... "research". ;)
 
Last edited:
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

David Evans and his mysterious undetectable Force X from Outer Space (no wait! It's Force ND now!) 'theory' on his wife's (Jo Nova) climate truther conspiracy blog?

Are climate truthers really so confused and gullible that they'll believe utter unscientific blog pseudoscience claptrap like this? Apparently so.

Don't forget to give generously to Jo and David's Tip Jar so they can keep doing their important...erm.... "research". ;)

David Evans's two papers will be published in October.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

David Evans's two papers will be published in October.

By who? Kimberley-Clark or Proctor and Gamble?

Will David's 'papers' have a rocketship motif printed on them? After all, David has been known to claim he was a 'rocket scientist' ;)
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

David Evans and his mysterious undetectable Force X from Outer Space (no wait! It's Force ND now!) 'theory' on his wife's (Jo Nova) climate truther conspiracy blog?

Are climate truthers really so confused and gullible that they'll believe utter unscientific blog pseudoscience claptrap like this? Apparently so.

Don't forget to give generously to Jo and David's Tip Jar so they can keep doing their important...erm.... "research". ;)

Would you care to put your money on a prediction of the climate data in 2019? Will you bet on it being warmer than 2016 or cooler than 2016? And what odds would you need?
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

A paper is out that looks at the amount of 'committed warming' we have over land over the next few decades, based upon the GHG that we have already emitted- will 1.5 degrees C, which will put us near the 3 degree mark post-industrially.

http://www.nature.com/articles/srep30294#f3

Press Release:

High chance that current atmospheric GHGs commit to warmings greater than 1.5C over land
From the CENTRE FOR ECOLOGY & HYDROLOGY
Current levels of atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations already commit the planet to air temperatures over many land regions being eventually warmed by greater than 1.5°C, according to new research published today (27 July 2016) in the journal Scientific Reports.
The results of the new study have implications for international discussions of what constitutes safe global temperature thresholds, such as 1.5°C or 2°C of warming since pre-industrial times. The expected extra warming over land will influence how we need to design some cities. It could also impact on the responses of trees and plants, and including crops.
The research was carried out by scientists from the UK’s Centre for Ecology & Hydrology and the University of Exeter, UK.
The research team found two main reasons behind the result.
First, even if it was possible to keep carbon dioxide concentrations fixed at their current 400 parts-per-million concentration levels, then the planet would continue to warm towards new equilibrium higher temperatures. At present, the climate is out of equilibrium, with the oceans drawing down very large amounts of heat from the atmosphere. However this will decline as the planet is bought towards a stable climatic state.
Second, warming rates over land are far higher than those when averaged globally which include temperatures over the oceans. This is a feature observed in meteorological measurements and reproduced across a large suite of climate models.
Lead author Dr Chris Huntingford from the Centre for Ecology & Hydrology said, “It would certainly be inappropriate to create any additional fear over climate change. However, what this paper does is re-iterate that the oceans are currently acting as a very strong sink of heat. Even if carbon dioxide was somehow stabilised at current levels, additional warming will occur as we move towards an equilibrium climate state. Furthermore, both data and computer models all indicate enhanced temperatures over land, compared to global mean warming that includes temperatures over the oceans.”
Co-author Dr Lina Mercado, Senior Lecturer in Physical Geography at the University of Exeter, said, “Our findings suggest that we are committed to land temperatures in excess of 1.5°C across many regions at present-day levels of greenhouses gases. It is therefore imperative to understand its consequences for our health, infrastructure and ecosystem services upon which we all rely.”
Dr Chris Huntingford added, “Central to our methodology is analysis of predictions made by a large number of independent climate research centres from around the world. Although many simulations exist for climate stabilisation, these tend to be at future higher greenhouse gas concentrations. We were able to scale these back to see the warming levels we are already committed to, even if present-day concentrations increased no further. Such computer models capture how the ocean heat sink would be slowly lost as a stable climate is approached, implying that temperatures would continue to increase temporarily even if greenhouse concentrations were fixed at current levels.”

So you're saying I can run my car 24/7 heat my house to 78 degrees and use old non energy star appliances all I want because we're all hosed anyway?

Party's at my place folks!
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

So you're saying I can run my car 24/7 heat my house to 78 degrees and use old non energy star appliances all I want because we're all hosed anyway?

Party's at my place folks!

Should I bring my 60+ bottles of bourbons, scotches, vodkas, etc?
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

Should I bring my 60+ bottles of bourbons, scotches, vodkas, etc?

Hell Yeah man!

to drink, not to fuel your car....

but let's get our needless driving to put co2 in the air just because we can out of the way before consuming.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

David Evans and his mysterious undetectable Force X from Outer Space (no wait! It's Force ND now!) 'theory' on his wife's (Jo Nova) climate truther conspiracy blog?

Are climate truthers really so confused and gullible that they'll believe utter unscientific blog pseudoscience claptrap like this? Apparently so.

Don't forget to give generously to Jo and David's Tip Jar so they can keep doing their important...erm.... "research". ;)
The primary claim of the AGW proponents, is that there could be no other cause of the observed warming.
Dr, David Evans PhD Stanford, who used to work for the Australian Greenhouse Office, Found a pattern that did not include CO2,
or from what I have read anything from outer space, just latency in existing cycles.
The name of his theory (and unlike AGW his is a real theory), is called
notch-delay hypothesis
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

The primary claim of the AGW proponents, is that there could be no other cause of the observed warming.
Dr, David Evans PhD Stanford, who used to work for the Australian Greenhouse Office, Found a pattern that did not include CO2,
or from what I have read anything from outer space, just latency in existing cycles.
The name of his theory (and unlike AGW his is a real theory), is called

And the guy now sells gold investing advice to deluded libertarians.

Not a real academic powerhouse- I guess that's why you have to call him 'Dr', and list his degree and granting institution, along with one former employer.

Clear signs of a denier windup.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

And the guy now sells gold investing advice to deluded libertarians.

Not a real academic powerhouse- I guess that's why you have to call him 'Dr', and list his degree and granting institution, along with one former employer.

Clear signs of a denier windup.
How does that depreciate his hypothesis? and why would it be relevant?
As to calling him Dr. He did earn a PhD from Stanford, As such he is entitled to be called Dr.
He has worked in the climate Sciences, Using his PhD specialization of signal processing.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

How does that depreciate his hypothesis? and why would it be relevant?
As to calling him Dr. He did earn a PhD from Stanford, As such he is entitled to be called Dr.
He has worked in the climate Sciences, Using his PhD specialization of signal processing.

Defensive now, aren't we?
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

Defensive now, aren't we?
Actually it was a question, which is Why I ended it with a "?".
If someone's terminal degree is in a subject, and they have a hypothesis about observed events, that they describe within the
confines of their expertise, how do their other activities relate?
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions today.

I just read an article that claims Camp Century might be uncovered by the melting ice.

Just how did they build it under the ice, in 1959 anyway? Could it be because of the solar peak in 1958?
 
Back
Top Bottom