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Climate Change Could Make Parts of Middle East Uninhabitable

I'm reminded of a Sam Kinison joke...

I'm like anyone else on this planet -- I'm very moved by world hunger. I see the same commercials, with those little kids, starving, and very depressed. I watch those kids and I go, “****, I know the FILM crew could give this kid a sandwich!” There's a director five feet away going, “DON'T FEED HIM YET! GET THAT SANDWICH OUTTA HERE! IT DOESN'T WORK UNLESS HE LOOKS HUNGRY!!!” But I'm not trying to make fun of world hunger. Matter of fact, I think I have the answer. You want to help stop world hunger? Stop sending them food. Don't send them another bite, send them U-Hauls. Send them a guy that says, "You know, we've been coming here giving you food for about 35 years now and we were driving through the desert, and we realized there wouldn't BE world hunger if you people would live where the FOOD IS! YOU LIVE IN A DESERT!! UNDERSTAND THAT? YOU LIVE IN A ****ING DESERT!! NOTHING GROWS HERE! NOTHING'S GONNA GROW HERE! Come here, you see this? This is sand. You know what it's gonna be 100 years from now? IT'S GONNA BE SAND!! YOU LIVE IN A ****ING DESERT! We have deserts in America, we just don't live in them, a**holes!"
-Sam Kinison
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MrT said:
Nature is already obeying mankind's commands by warming significantly and rapidly due to human pollution.
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Greetings, MrT. :2wave:

I don't agree that "commands" is the correct word to use in your scenario. We are doing what we always do as humans - living for today and not giving much thought to either the immediate or far future in almost all parts of our lives including economics, living conditions, diet and how we treat others.

We can't command a cease of earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions, tornadoes, comets, or much of anything else that nature controls, which do more harm to humans in one day than years of anything we do, but it would be interesting to read what future historians would write about our efforts to control CO2. Since we have more humans exhaling CO2 today than ever before in history - and although CO2 isn't a "pollutant" even though it gets the brunt of the current criticism from some people - it is necessary for plant life to exist so we don't starve to death.

What do we tell the millions of people who have no choice but to cook their meals by burning small wood-fed fires outside to feed their families. Who is going to tell India and China not to burn coal in their factories, which provide jobs for millions of their people, and what alternatives are given to help them?

How many humans should die to make life better for those that remain? :rantoff:
 
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azgreg said:
One of his funniest bits. However, we do live in the deserts. Vegas ring a bell? :2razz:
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True, but we worked out the food and water situation first!
 
MrT said:
You should take it as a "no." It's pretty ****ing obvious that I am not going to break down the specifics of their models for you.

Again, we have to talk about the rate of change. Humans live on a timescale of about 80 years. So if the changes between the time periods that you're discussing is a gradual change over 10,000 years, then you're discussing an irrelevant point. Currently we are adjusting the climate at rates of roughly 50-100x the natural process. So when a specific area like the entire middle east moves from desert to uninhabitable within 100 years (as opposed to 10,000 years), there are going to be a lot of problems.
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Oh no ... it hasn't been over 10,000 years.
The entire medieval warm period and the little ice age only lasted several hundred years each and they one followed the other.
That was certainly natural.
And what you're experiencing now is a warming after that LIA cooling.
 
MrT said:
Why would you make that assumption? Of course water consumption is dependent on demand.
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Since in post #45 you implied through a citation that the drought in Syria was related to climate change,
I am not the only one making assumptions.
What do you think would have a greater impact on water supplies, a .5 C change in average temperature,
or tripling the number of people in a given area?
 
longview said:
Since in post #45 you implied through a citation that the drought in Syria was related to climate change,
I am not the only one making assumptions.
What do you think would have a greater impact on water supplies, a .5 C change in average temperature,
or tripling the number of people in a given area?
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I am not implying anything beyond the title of the article which, in this case, is "Climate change in the Fertile Crescent and implications of the recent Syrian drought."

And there are alot of areas where populations have increased dramatically. And those areas are not suffering massive water shortages. So to imply that population increase is the only reason for the Syrian drought is population increase is ridiculous (but probably not your point, just that it is more influential). And yes, if you want to make a comparison between which factors are to blame, I could agree that a dramatic population increase is probably more influential. So would diplomatic relations built on years on political persecution.

The point of the research was to provide evidence for humbolt who claimed that he would be convinced of climate change as a problem if he found evidence to support the notion that climate change had caused or been linked to a specific weather pattern or climatic event in a specific region.
 
bubbabgone said:
Oh no ... it hasn't been over 10,000 years.
The entire medieval warm period and the little ice age only lasted several hundred years each and they one followed the other.
That was certainly natural.
And what you're experiencing now is a warming after that LIA cooling.
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You're telling me that the middle east and north africa were lush during the medieval warm period?
 
calm said:
We can expect Water Wars throughout the Middle East.

Presently; two-thirds of the globe face water shortages.

4 Billion People At Risk As Water Table Dropping All Over The World
Four billion people facing severe water scarcity | Science Advances

In Canada, there is concerns or suspicions that the U.S. will demand Diversion of Great Lakes water to California.

Calm
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Are people in Canada delusional? I mean, diverting the water from the Great lakes to California? That's just insane.

It would be far less expensive to build desalination plants than it would be to build giant canals from the Great lakes, UNDER the Rocky Mountains and Sierra Nevada Mountains, and then into the San Fernando Valley. And don't get me wrong, it would be TREMENDOUSLY expensive to build the desalination plants.
 
Simpleχity;1065825591 said:
Climate Change Could Make Parts of Middle East Uninhabitable
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Only reasons it's even remotely inhabitable now is because of enormous energy inputs.
I am willing to accept that my definition of "inhabitable" may be different from many.
I'm only saying that ground temps in the 180's and air temps in the 130's isn't considered habitable by many.
If you can call those parts of the Middle East inhabitable then McMurdo Station in the Antarctic is also "inhabitable" even though jet fuel and diesel can freeze almost immediately.

Some bacteria thrive in 750 degree water, life is pretty amazing that way. Maybe in a few millennia humans will have evolved to the point where it won't be a big deal to walk around in 170 degree sunshine.

I know I'm probably a big *****, I grew up in 90 degree/100% humidity half the year and it never bothered me until I spent six years in Minnesota. It must have changed my body chemistry somehow. I had to leave North Texas because both the wife and I were prisoners in our house half the year round.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
And don't get me wrong, it would be TREMENDOUSLY expensive to build the desalination plants.
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Yes and no, tremendously expensive to build, still cheaper than facing another seemingly eternal drought that threatens the continued survival of the agriculture, and of most of the cities in general. It is an investment which simply must be made, and some believe, long overdue.
And there's more to it than just desal too, there is a lot of support for community air well construction too, which can also recover significant water from the atmosphere.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Yes and no, tremendously expensive to build, still cheaper than facing another seemingly eternal drought that threatens the continued survival of the agriculture, and of most of the cities in general. It is an investment which simply must be made, and some believe, long overdue.
And there's more to it than just desal too, there is a lot of support for community air well construction too, which can also recover significant water from the atmosphere.
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I'm a pragmatist.

I think the time has come that we face the fact that must seek food production in regions better suited to long term sustainability. If we can put a man on the moon the we sure ought to be able to grow decent produce places like Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, etc...
 
Jack Fabulous said:
I'm a pragmatist.

I think the time has come that we face the fact that must seek food production in regions better suited to long term sustainability. If we can put a man on the moon the we sure ought to be able to grow decent produce places like Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, etc...
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azgreg said:
I've been to their site a number of times. Apparently they've received some international acclaim for their plant. It's good to see. I really feel that desal is the answer for the west coast. Bringing water all the way from the Great Lakes seems like a stupid idea.
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Not only that but desal will become cheaper and cheaper as more plants get built. After all, this is only a new thing to "Ah-murrikinz".
Folks have been cleaning the salt out of ocean water for a long time in other parts of the world, and they've proven that they can do it responsibly.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
I'm a pragmatist.

I think the time has come that we face the fact that must seek food production in regions better suited to long term sustainability. If we can put a man on the moon the we sure ought to be able to grow decent produce places like Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, etc...
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Whaddya mean? We DO...aintcha heard? TN, KY, GA all growing groceries like crazy.
Well, Georgia had a little "immigration" tantrum so they're experiencing some issues. :lamo

California can do just fine in agriculture, and we can make our own water.
Same argument, too by the way.
Man on moon? Water from ocean!
 
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