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Unusually early Greenland Melt

longview said:
I guess I am just an optimist.
I see a need to bring the 2nd and 3ed world up to western standards
as an opportunity for the US to show the full depth of our innovative and inventive talents.
Better products will spur demand.
The ability to accumulate various alternative energy sources in a long lived dense medium,
is truly a game changer.
In the early years, it will mostly be fuel products, later as the technology improves,
it can be adapted to more conventional uses.
It will take many decades to bring the entire planet to the first world standard,
and the US can make and sell the tools for that path.
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I was all for NAFTA, because I wasn't worried about how much Mexico could drain American jobs. I also saw it as a plus to employ more Mexicans to reduce illegal immigration. Clinton, however expanded free trade globally. Just about everything we buy now is made elsewhere, instead of providing American manufacturing jobs, and because it's cheaper to manufacture in Cambodia than Mexico, NAFTA is now a failure as well.

How can anyone not see the loss of US manufacturing jobs as scary?
 
Check this out:

Hot springs in Greenland

Watch the icebergs float by, colours in the sky change, and soak in that time passes. Take in a deep breath, and you may be surprised that the air around the naturally heated water is pure and fresh instead of smelling of sulphur.
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hot-spring_lars-t-christiansen.jpg
 
Lord of Planar said:
I was all for NAFTA, because I wasn't worried about how much Mexico could drain American jobs. I also saw it as a plus to employ more Mexicans to reduce illegal immigration. Clinton, however expanded free trade globally. Just about everything we buy now is made elsewhere, instead of providing American manufacturing jobs, and because it's cheaper to manufacture in Cambodia than Mexico, NAFTA is now a failure as well.

How can anyone not see the loss of US manufacturing jobs as scary?
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Because manufacturing is what second wave nations do. Third wave nations tell the second wave ones what to manufacture.
 
Threegoofs said:
Because manufacturing is what second wave nations do. Third wave nations tell the second wave ones what to manufacture.
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So you like how the USA has declined in actual wages vs. cost of living.

Doesn't surprise me.
 
Lord of Planar said:
So you like how the USA has declined in actual wages vs. cost of living.

Doesn't surprise me.
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Again, the high wage manufacturing jobs only exist when people get high wages for manufacturing. That doesn't happen much anymore.

Wages have not really declined over the decades, and cost of living has decreased.

All of us in the US are living in a much more prosperous country now vs. 40 years ago.
 
"Unusually early Greenland Melt"

Who knows? Perhaps Greenland will become habitable again like it was in the first millennium AD.
 
Threegoofs said:
Again, the high wage manufacturing jobs only exist when people get high wages for manufacturing. That doesn't happen much anymore.
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Supply and demand of jobs vs. people is what drives wages.

Threegoofs said:
Wages have not really declined over the decades, and cost of living has decreased.
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Some wages have declined. In the late 70's I went for a job field that paid $50k annual In the early 90's, it paid under $40k annual. Needless to say, I change job fields. It depends on the job.

In general, both the cost of living and wages have increased, but wages have not kept up with the cost of living.

Threegoofs said:
All of us in the US are living in a much more prosperous country now vs. 40 years ago.
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LOL...

No we aren't. Besides, it now takes both parents making a wage when 40 years ago it only took one wage earner.

Please take your head out of the sand.
 
fmw said:
"Unusually early Greenland Melt"

Who knows? Perhaps Greenland will become habitable again like it was in the first millennium AD.
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We can only hope.

Let the zealots blame it on warming instead of geothermal activity. I will just turn around as say "see it makes the planet more livable!"

Do you think a thousand years ago, the vikings powered their ships with fossil fuel, and maybe that's why the had farms and mines in Greenland?

I mean... if burning fossil fuel is what causes Greenland to melt, maybe the Vikings powered their vessels that way...
 
Lord of Planar said:
Supply and demand of jobs vs. people is what drives wages.


Some wages have declined. In the late 70's I went for a job field that paid $50k annual In the early 90's, it paid under $40k annual. Needless to say, I change job fields. It depends on the job.

In general, both the cost of living and wages have increased, but wages have not kept up with the cost of living.


LOL...

No we aren't. Besides, it now takes both parents making a wage when 40 years ago it only took one wage earner.

Please take your head out of the sand.
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Of course SOME wages have decreased.

But, on the average, the cost of living over the last 40 years has declined. Actually, a better word is *plummeted*. The percentage of income a household pays for the basics, food, etc, has dropped precipitously. And everything manufactured that we buy now tends to be cheaper and better than in the past. Vehicles? TVs? Computers? All relatively cheaper considering the vast increases in quality.

That's what productivity does over the long term. And the greatest gains in worldwide productivity are made by the third world countries that can efficiently make and sell us stuff.
 
Manc Skipper said:
China in particular is making massive strides to decarbonisation. Their lowered demand was given as one of the excuses for the demise of Peabody Coal only days ago.
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"Decarbonisation"? Shirley you can't be serious. China is not taking any steps to "decarbonise", it has simply halted the building of new coal fired plants in areas where there is already an electricity glut. It has nothing to do with "decarbonisation", it is simply because their economy is contracting.
 
Deuce said:
When you guys stop posting threads every time it snows in January maybe you'll have a leg to stand on.
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That it snows at all in England and much of the US is a refutation of at least some supporters of CAGW.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I was all for NAFTA, because I wasn't worried about how much Mexico could drain American jobs. I also saw it as a plus to employ more Mexicans to reduce illegal immigration. Clinton, however expanded free trade globally. Just about everything we buy now is made elsewhere, instead of providing American manufacturing jobs, and because it's cheaper to manufacture in Cambodia than Mexico, NAFTA is now a failure as well.

How can anyone not see the loss of US manufacturing jobs as scary?
Click to expand...

While the number of manufacturing jobs is falling, the value of goods produced and total employment are going up. Most of the jobs lost in manufacturing were lost due to increased productivity, not off shoring.

Total employment, manufacturing, output.jpg
 
notquiteright said:
Politicians didn't send jobs overseas, politicians don't run major corporations.... :roll:

CEOs and corporate boards send jobs overseas... :doh

But you maybe correct about the wage earners as it appears the politicians seem to think corporations pay way too much and people who inherit millions are poor victims of the 'death tax'... pretty much just leaves the W2 workers.... :peace
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That's an incredibly naive statement. CEO's send their companies and the jobs that go with them where they are the most cost effective, and politicians create those conditions. The other choice when labor is encouraged to price themselves out of the market is to bring cheap labor here, Both are happening here and now, and we are probably past the tipping point on both unless the politicians have the will to make the hard choices.
 
Lord of Planar said:
So...Is it your opinion that the laws politicians make on taxes and regulations, don't affect the decisions for business to move to someplace more business friendly? Unlike liberals and progressives, I look at the root causes. Not the nearest or easiest entity to blame for agendas. Because they are beholden to the best stock holder profits they can provide. It's your type of thinking that causes the over taxation of production. When lawmakers implement the tactics to punish the 1%, they simply push more tax generating wealth out of the states. You progressives never think about the repercussions of the policies you favor, and that's why we are doomed.
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It's not just opinion... every year the same reports come out- corporations not paying any Federal taxes- state governments giving huge tax breaks- free land, taxpayer funded bonds, and exemption to taxes, regulations that stop massive pollution. But the biggie for many corporations is wages- Americans can't live on 5 dollars a week but millions of Rural Chinese compete for jobs that pay that amount. Pay differential isn't a politician's fault. You don't see 'root' causes but trite regressive talking points.

CEOs owe as much to their contracts, bonus targets and incentives as any stock holder- the majors in that category are their fellow 1%ers, not the much paraded teacher retirement members. So much for the not shattered Conservative lie that CEOs and major corporations wouldn't wreck the economy for short term gain and self interest... :roll:

Lawmakers (conservative) have been making all sorts of devil approved deals in the fly over states and the result has been a complete train wreck. Kansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana...

No Sir, we progressive see past the Conservative lies of trickle down, invisible hand guiding the market, protective CEOs, and lower taxes will bring us our salvation...

Fact is our nation's standard of living is high compared to other nations- you want to work for 5 bucks a week? You want to live in a barrack with 7 other men in the room? You want Beijing's air quality??? How about your river front property watching the river burn a few times a year... or the Chesapeake Bay losing it's oyster beds, it's crabbing industry...

No it's the detached talking points of the Conservative slight of hand useful idiots that hurts this country. Time to objectively view our economy vs the emerging nations... :peace
 
LowDown said:
That it snows at all in England and much of the US is a refutation of at least some supporters of CAGW.
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Ummm no... if you understand climate and macro weather patterns you'd see a warmer Arctic pushes cold waves off the polar caps and down onto the more temperate zones. Just looking at the events you think refutes climate change and not the entire picture leave you with your 4th POC hanging out in the breeze... :peace
 
I see typical whining here...

notquiteright said:
It's not just opinion... every year the same reports come out- corporations not paying any Federal taxes- state governments giving huge tax breaks- free land, taxpayer funded bonds, and exemption to taxes, regulations that stop massive pollution.
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I'm against taxing productivity. I don't think corporations should be taxed. The profits the shareholders get should be taxed, but when you tax a corporation, we just pay higher prices for goods and services.

notquiteright said:
But the biggie for many corporations is wages- Americans can't live on 5 dollars a week but millions of Rural Chinese compete for jobs that pay that amount. Pay differential isn't a politician's fault. You don't see 'root' causes but trite regressive talking points.
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This is why I am against the free trade deals made. we need stiff tariffs on imports we can make here.

notquiteright said:
CEOs owe as much to their contracts, bonus targets and incentives as any stock holder- the majors in that category are their fellow 1%ers, not the much paraded teacher retirement members.
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Where are you going with this other than jealousy?

notquiteright said:
So much for the not shattered Conservative lie that CEOs and major corporations wouldn't wreck the economy for short term gain and self interest... :roll:
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LOL...

Conservative lie?

Strawman alert...
notquiteright said:
Lawmakers (conservative) have been making all sorts of devil approved deals in the fly over states and the result has been a complete train wreck. Kansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana...
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MynGod man...

All of your wording is right out of liberal propaganda rags.

Do any thinking for yourself?

notquiteright said:
No Sir, we progressive see past the Conservative lies of trickle down, invisible hand guiding the market, protective CEOs, and lower taxes will bring us our salvation...
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More words not really saying anything...

notquiteright said:
Fact is our nation's standard of living is high compared to other nations- you want to work for 5 bucks a week? You want to live in a barrack with 7 other men in the room? You want Beijing's air quality??? How about your river front property watching the river burn a few times a year... or the Chesapeake Bay losing it's oyster beds, it's crabbing industry...
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It was higher. I'm all for other nations improving, but with free trade, they are improving at out detriment.

notquiteright said:
No it's the detached talking points of the Conservative slight of hand useful idiots that hurts this country. Time to objectively view our economy vs the emerging nations... :peace
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Example please...
 
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Manc Skipper said:
Meanwhile, alongside the ice melt where temperatures are 30C higher than average, the Beaufort sea ice is also breaking up very early.

Early Ice Breakup of Beaufort Sea | NASA
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WTF?

Why are you editorializing?

It doesn't say that anywhere. Where did you get the 30 C higher from? Just how does it maintain 54 F higher than normal?

Is it possible, that since it was ready to break soon, that the recent earthquakes we had triggered it early?

Why do you warmer and alarmists blame everything on global warming?
 
Lord of Planar said:
WTF?

Why are you editorializing?

It doesn't say that anywhere. Where did you get the 30 C higher from? Just how does it maintain 54 F higher than normal?

Is it possible, that since it was ready to break soon, that the recent earthquakes we had triggered it early?

Why do you warmer and alarmists blame everything on global warming?
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Ummm...because of the record breaking warmth on the globe and SPECIFICALLY the incredible spike in Arctic temps?

Arctic News: March temperature

Jeez. What a denier tool. It's all volcanos and earthquakes.
 
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