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But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberations

Lord of Planar

Lord of Planar

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Interesting article and it makes anyone curious, wonder.

What are they hiding?

From Nature: US lawmakers expand probe of climate study


The agency has since provided more than 300 pages of e-mails and other documents produced by political appointees and by NOAA's director of communications, Ciaran Clayton. But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberations.

“The speed with which NOAA has conducted these searches and produced documents creates the perception that the Agency is deliberately attempting to impede and hinder the Committee’s oversight,” he wrote.
​

Why not release the truth. They are an organization that serves the public. the public has the right to know. there shouldn't be any national secrets here... Or is there... A climate agenda maybe?
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

Lord of Planar said:
Interesting article and it makes anyone curious, wonder.

What are they hiding?

From Nature: US lawmakers expand probe of climate study


The agency has since provided more than 300 pages of e-mails and other documents produced by political appointees and by NOAA's director of communications, Ciaran Clayton. But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberations.

“The speed with which NOAA has conducted these searches and produced documents creates the perception that the Agency is deliberately attempting to impede and hinder the Committee’s oversight,” he wrote.
​

Why not release the truth. They are an organization that serves the public. the public has the right to know. there shouldn't be any national secrets here... Or is there... A climate agenda maybe?
Click to expand...

If you have to leave it with a question, then you should know that you are just fishing. Just as these "US Lawmakers" (read: Republicans) are fishing for some reason to claim that a climate agenda exists.

You really want to subject every scientific group that "serves the public" to a release and review of all of their internal discussions? You hold yourself out as someone that is very respectful of the scientific community. Recognize that these types of fishing expedition do much more harm than good in the vast majority of instances.

And please do not try to strawman my point into some notion that I must blindly want to allow for hidden agendas or allow scientists to act nefarious or without public review.
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

MrT said:
If you have to leave it with a question, then you should know that you are just fishing. Just as these "US Lawmakers" (read: Republicans) are fishing for some reason to claim that a climate agenda exists.

You really want to subject every scientific group that "serves the public" to a release and review of all of their internal discussions? You hold yourself out as someone that is very respectful of the scientific community. Recognize that these types of fishing expedition do much more harm than good in the vast majority of instances.

And please do not try to strawman my point into some notion that I must blindly want to allow for hidden agendas or allow scientists to act nefarious or without public review.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of people asking their congress members to look at such things. Yes, they are typically republicans. It does not change the facts.
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

Lord of Planar said:
There are plenty of people asking their congress members to look at such things. Yes, they are typically republicans. It does not change the facts.
Click to expand...

The American public is roughly 46% skeptical of climate change. If I broke that group down by their political affiliations, the overwhelming majority would be republicans. And no, that doesn't excuse a congressman's responsibility to listen to their constituents - in fact - it explains precisely why they are looking climate change proponents. Their constituents doubt the validity of the science and thus force their political leaders (assuming that they want to get re-elected and are not willing to act smarter than their own constituents) to act skeptical - borderline conspiratorial (like yourself).
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

MrT said:
The American public is roughly 46% skeptical of climate change. If I broke that group down by their political affiliations, the overwhelming majority would be republicans. And no, that doesn't excuse a congressman's responsibility to listen to their constituents - in fact - it explains precisely why they are looking climate change proponents. Their constituents doubt the validity of the science and thus force their political leaders (assuming that they want to get re-elected and are not willing to act smarter than their own constituents) to act skeptical - borderline conspiratorial (like yourself).
Click to expand...
I was hoping discussion of opening the books wouldn't take a political bias. Oh well, that's to be expected of you. Isn't it.
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

Lord of Planar said:
I was hoping discussion of opening the books wouldn't take a political bias. Oh well, that's to be expected of you. Isn't it.
Click to expand...

Well there's always Venus ? :wink:
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

Lord of Planar said:
I was hoping discussion of opening the books wouldn't take a political bias. Oh well, that's to be expected of you. Isn't it.
Click to expand...

Yes- a partisan witch hunt by the House GOP should never take on a political bias.

I'm sure this is just NOAA hiding an illuminati conspiracy.
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

Lord of Planar said:
I was hoping discussion of opening the books wouldn't take a political bias. Oh well, that's to be expected of you. Isn't it.
Click to expand...

Are you denying the political bias aspect of this "push" for them to "open their books?" Or you just think it is irrelevant?
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

MrT said:
Are you denying the political bias aspect of this "push" for them to "open their books?" Or you just think it is irrelevant?
Click to expand...
Are you denying that the House science committee has oversight and ownership of any and all
work product from NOAA?
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

longview said:
Are you denying that the House science committee has oversight and ownership of any and all
work product from NOAA?
Click to expand...

If I could just leave my response with a simple "No," I would.
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

MrT said:
If I could just leave my response with a simple "No," I would.
Click to expand...
I should re quote my post for #9, Just so the context of your "No" is established.
Originally Posted by longview: Are you denying that the House science committee has oversight
and ownership of any and allwork product from NOAA?
Click to expand...
MrT "No"
Click to expand...
With your "NO" you are agreeing that the House Science Committee has oversight and
ownership of any and all work product from NOAA.
So why do you think it is wrong for the House Science Committee, to ask for records
of NOAA's scientific deliberations?
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

MrT said:
Are you denying the political bias aspect of this "push" for them to "open their books?" Or you just think it is irrelevant?
Click to expand...

How do you determine it's political? because it's the opposing party? Is it political that the left is pushing the AGW agenda?

Why is it wrong to see the discussion among scientists?
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

MrT said:
If I could just leave my response with a simple "No," I would.
Click to expand...

But you would be lying, right?
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

longview said:
I should re quote my post for #9, Just so the context of your "No" is established.


With your "NO" you are agreeing that the House Science Committee has oversight and
ownership of any and all work product from NOAA.
So why do you think it is wrong for the House Science Committee, to ask for records
of NOAA's scientific deliberations?
Click to expand...

He already answered, he thinks it's politically motivated.

I wonder what he expects them to oversight?
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

I see no reason why they would not turn over their findings and other things.
of course I have a feeling they are stalling because they realize that this will turn
into climate gate 3.0.

it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that these guys are using flawed models
and are inflating the co2 forcing on their projections.

that is why their projections are so far outside the realm of the observed data.

it is sad news for these AGW zealots but something everyone else already knows.
climate change is supposed to happen. if it didn't I would be severely worried.
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

longview said:
I should re quote my post for #9, Just so the context of your "No" is established.


With your "NO" you are agreeing that the House Science Committee has oversight and
ownership of any and all work product from NOAA.
So why do you think it is wrong for the House Science Committee, to ask for records
of NOAA's scientific deliberations?
Click to expand...

It is misguided - not necessarily wrong - to ask to review the internal discussions of the scientific deliberations when there are no legitimate accusations of any wrong doing. If you want to question their findings, then do so. If you want to question their data collection methods, do so.

To subject scientists to the threat of reviewing their internal communications without any legitimate accusation of wrong doing only serves a purpose of validating the witch hunt and simultaneously throwing a cold water on the frank and open discussion that scientists should have internally.
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

ludin said:
I see no reason why they would not turn over their findings and other things.
of course I have a feeling they are stalling because they realize that this will turn
into climate gate 3.0.

it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that these guys are using flawed models
and are inflating the co2 forcing on their projections.

that is why their projections are so far outside the realm of the observed data.

it is sad news for these AGW zealots but something everyone else already knows.
climate change is supposed to happen. if it didn't I would be severely worried.
Click to expand...

Climate change is supposed to happen? Does that edict come from you or God? Or are you God?
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

Lord of Planar said:
How do you determine it's political? because it's the opposing party? Is it political that the left is pushing the AGW agenda?

Why is it wrong to see the discussion among scientists?
Click to expand...

I answer your last question in post #16. And I determine it to be political because it is one political party is that is skeptical (borderline denier) of the science and, instead of questioning the science, they want to pursue a document dump of emails so that they can find a couple of quotes to use out of context and validate the conspiratorial nutjobs.
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

Lord of Planar said:
He already answered, he thinks it's politically motivated.

I wonder what he expects them to oversight?
Click to expand...

THE SCIENCE. REVIEW THE SCIENCE. THE PUBLICATIONS, THE DATA, AND THE CONCLUSIONS. HELL, DO SOME OVERSIGHT ON ALLEGATIONS OF WRONGDOING.

But are there any legitimate allegations of wrong doing? No? Then you are just doing a politically motivated witch hunt.
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

MrT said:
It is misguided - not necessarily wrong - to ask to review the internal discussions of the scientific deliberations when there are no legitimate accusations of any wrong doing. If you want to question their findings, then do so. If you want to question their data collection methods, do so.

To subject scientists to the threat of reviewing their internal communications without any legitimate accusation of wrong doing only serves a purpose of validating the witch hunt and simultaneously throwing a cold water on the frank and open discussion that scientists should have internally.
Click to expand...
Scientist will have frank and open discussions regardless!
NOAA dragging their feet on a legitimate request, is what is raising suspicion.
No one is threatening any Scientist, their internal communications are the property
of the US Government who pays their salaries.
The Oversight committee has the right to ask for any and all communications whenever,
and for whatever reason they choose.
 
Re: But NOAA has refused to hand over records of its internal scientific deliberation

longview said:
Scientist will have frank and open discussions regardless!
NOAA dragging their feet on a legitimate request, is what is raising suspicion.
No one is threatening any Scientist, their internal communications are the property
of the US Government who pays their salaries.
The Oversight committee has the right to ask for any and all communications whenever,
and for whatever reason they choose.
Click to expand...

I think congress should just cut off their funding until they comply.
 
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