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i am pissed

Either that, or it's just me. :shock: :)

Nope. It is kinda awesome to realize your ideals and principles are among the only remaining vestiges of rightness in the community.

Be true to them.

Be proud.
 
After thinking on it I'm inclined to let the whole thing go and not even bother emailing the teacher though I may broach the topic the next time I see her just to get the gist of what was going on that day. The Japanese internment camps are a fact though my son was under the impression that every single Japanese American person in the states was locked up -which is false. However that could be just his misunderstanding and not that she said they ALL were. And it's a silly point to get stuck on. However I still stand by my assertion that the internment of Japanese Americans is a horrible intro to the topicl, even if you're just making a point in passing. On the plus side it opened up a great discussion in our home. So I'm not goinjg to get crazily worked up over this. I'll just make sure the kid learns more. We'll be stopping in the bookstore later today. :cool:

CC said there seems to be a lot of oddball things going on in your district/school. I only know about the district one regarding the play and now this one so I was framing my opinion as two isolated incidents at different schools. If there are more, you probably do need to give them some feedback.

Anyway in regard to this one (assuming it stands alone), I think you made the right decision to let it go. As you said, it opened up a discussion with you and your son. The cool thing is that he's curious and that you care enough to give him answers.



:2wave:
 
Ok so I had a discussion with my son tonight. 4th grade. Apparently they were talking about the waterboarding and Obama apologizing for it in school. OK fine. However the teacher apparently wanted to make the point that this is not the first time American arrogance has led to us doing things that we later regretted out of fear. Ok.

So to bring her point home she introduces them to World War 2 and Japanese Internment camps.

Jeeeezus.

Through the course of the conversation I realized my son did not know about Hitler, the holocaust, Jewish camps, European nations falling like dominoes, or Pearl Harbor. He just learned about the US failure of Japanese Internment camps.

Am I wrong for going ape****?

Have you ever gone to the school to praise any teacher you thought did a good job as a positive enforcement or only when you have something to bitch about?

For complaints why not instead go to a public session of the school board with some letters to the editor of the newspaper before hand? If just one member of the board agreed with you it would mean a call to the principal from a higher up who would then speak to the teacher rather than from an irrelevant parent. That method also might have less risk of the teacher retaliating against your son in grades.

I heard a woman explain one time that she often went to public sessions of the school board with complaints and with praises. She said the school came to treat her daughter with very well. When she then did go to the office for something they were tripping over themselves nice and agreeable to about anything.

At first they hated her but then came to like her because she was at least a parent who cared and she wasn't 100% negative. Most parents don't care and those who do participate only when they're pissed.
 
Have you ever gone to the school to praise any teacher you thought did a good job as a positive enforcement or only when you have something to bitch about?

For complaints why not instead go to a public session of the school board with some letters to the editor of the newspaper before hand? If just one member of the board agreed with you it would mean a call to the principal from a higher up who would then speak to the teacher rather than from an irrelevant parent. That method also might have less risk of the teacher retaliating against your son in grades.

I heard a woman explain one time that she often went to public sessions of the school board with complaints and with praises. She said the school came to treat her daughter with very well. When she then did go to the office for something they were tripping over themselves nice and agreeable to about anything.

At first they hated her but then came to like her because she was at least a parent who cared and she wasn't 100% negative. Most parents don't care and those who do participate only when they're pissed.

I'm in no way a 100% negative. I volunteer at the school tons, am the PTA treasurer, and am the one teachers and the principal call when they need a hand with something. I am as free with my praise as I am with my complaining. I'm very opinionated but I'm sure they've grown accustomed to it by this point. :cool:
 
I do not think I could do homeschooling. Socialization is such a huge part of going to school. But I do find myself supplementing more and more. Tomorrow we're off to Barnes and Noble first thing to pick up some decent books for younger kids on World War II.

Homeschool + Karate/Dance/etc.=great education + great socialization.
 
So much has changed in the public school system since I graduated High School in 2003 when I was 18. Even when I went to Syracuse I never experience have the bull**** I hear when public schools are discussed. I must be one of the lucky ones I guess.
 
Ok so I had a discussion with my son tonight. 4th grade. Apparently they were talking about the waterboarding and Obama apologizing for it in school. OK fine. However the teacher apparently wanted to make the point that this is not the first time American arrogance has led to us doing things that we later regretted out of fear. Ok.

So to bring her point home she introduces them to World War 2 and Japanese Internment camps.

Jeeeezus.

Through the course of the conversation I realized my son did not know about Hitler, the holocaust, Jewish camps, European nations falling like dominoes, or Pearl Harbor. He just learned about the US failure of Japanese Internment camps.

Am I wrong for going ape****?

If you really want to scare both the teacher and the principle, next time this happens, go to your state's dept of ed website and the standards for your child's grade. It'll list exactly what your child should know by the end of that grade. Print it out, take it with you, and ask for the specifics of how they're planning on addressing any that give you concern.

In the case of the incident you posted here, I'd ask her what history standard she was trying to fulfill and why she chose that method (teachers call it pedagogy). It scares the hell out of teachers when parents are so well prepared.

It's great that you're the "squeeky wheel", schools, districts, kids...... all need more activist parents.
 
This is an opportunity for your children to learn a greater lesson, that teachers, preachers, govt leaders, even PARENTS are NOT infallible, that they are human, subject to the same ignorance as the rest of us, and that SOME of them are assholes.
In 6th grade my son got interested in WWII and was reading a book on the battle of Midway. I looked it over a bit, saw that it was from the school library, and pretty much a sanitized version of the subject, and told him to take it back. We went to the public library and got an adult level book on Midway. I didn't want him to read about war from a book that left out the horrors of war...
Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.
 
Ok so I had a discussion with my son tonight. 4th grade. Apparently they were talking about the waterboarding and Obama apologizing for it in school. OK fine. However the teacher apparently wanted to make the point that this is not the first time American arrogance has led to us doing things that we later regretted out of fear. Ok.

So to bring her point home she introduces them to World War 2 and Japanese Internment camps.

Jeeeezus.

Through the course of the conversation I realized my son did not know about Hitler, the holocaust, Jewish camps, European nations falling like dominoes, or Pearl Harbor. He just learned about the US failure of Japanese Internment camps.

Am I wrong for going ape****?

Yes. Its an American School. An American teacher? An American Kid. And an American Issue. Sounds like quality American education.
I do not see why you are tripping.

Maybe u should begin educating your child on history yourself? I knew just about everything important a school history teacher told me before the told me, untill I got to university. I already had a context to store what my teachers were telling me. I was readin encyclopedias for fun. If hes schoolin ur kid on interment camps, thats your bad.
 
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If you really want to scare both the teacher and the principle, next time this happens, go to your state's dept of ed website and the standards for your child's grade. It'll list exactly what your child should know by the end of that grade. Print it out, take it with you, and ask for the specifics of how they're planning on addressing any that give you concern.

In the case of the incident you posted here, I'd ask her what history standard she was trying to fulfill and why she chose that method (teachers call it pedagogy). It scares the hell out of teachers when parents are so well prepared.


ROFL.
Its just a historical elsson from a grown up to a child. Y'all need to relax. If this si the worst **** ur exposing ur kids mind to, id be WELL suprised.
 
As you said, it opened up a discussion with you and your son. The cool thing is that he's curious and that you care enough to give him answers.



:2wave:

Thats all that matters.
Its good that the school challenges ur view points. And its up to you to reason with it, and explain your conceptions of it. Through the process, your kid will assess the world for itself, and work out how it understands things.

Have a little faith in your parenting skills. Ideas and messages should be welcome. If you do your job right, the kid will have a decent world view, and decent values. Being told about internment camps doesnt undermine this.
 
not to mention, we are rellying on a 4th graders interpretation of a lesson.
 
pissed?!

because the teacher presented factual information to the class?

because the presented reality conflicted with a stereotypical image that the USA can inflict no wrong

you think the teacher was wrong?

the teacher was right; unfortunately, it was our nation's history that was got wrong (regarding the internment)

and maybe by learning that these kids will become knowledgable voting adults who will insist on our nation's conduct being defensible going forward

and if you believe the teacher left too many voids in the presentation, fill them in. give the lesson a proper context. YOU should be your child's primary teacher ... the school should only supplement what is learned in the home

that criticism of the teacher reminds me of the actions of an outhouse supervisor
 
Did the teacher actually use the term arrogance? That would be pretty bad too. High school maybe, when kids are better able to question their teachers, but in the fourth grade?

Ideally, a teacher should never use any word which implies subjectivity. It is not a teacher's prerogative to assign a value judgment to an act; instead it is their job to impart the facts concerning the act and nothing more. The value judgment is to be made by the child and their parents.

Words like “right” and “wrong” - and others with a similar connotation - have no place in a public school system.
 
Ideally, a teacher should never use any word which implies subjectivity. It is not a teacher's prerogative to assign a value judgment to an act; instead it is their job to impart the facts concerning the act and nothing more. The value judgment is to be made by the child and their parents.

Words like “right” and “wrong” - and others with a similar connotation - have no place in a public school system.

are you then proposing that the students should not be told that the japanese internment camps were morally wrong

if so, i strongly disagree

next, you would want us to tell the students that slavery may have been a morally acceptable institution, should the child (and the parents) decide in that direction

or maybe instead of asserting the facts we present that hitler was just misunderstood and the holocaust was maybe not such a big deal. bet the skin head parents would appreciate that argument being left open so that it could be clarified in the home

horse pucky
 
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are you then proposing that the students should not be told that the japanese internment camps were morally wrong

Yes, that's precisely what I'm saying. It's not the government's prerogative to impute an act with a moral qualification. In doing so, the government is morally indoctrinating its students which is a right and responsibility retained solely by parents.

next, you would want us to tell the students that slavery may have been a morally acceptable institution...

No, I would abstain from moral commentary altogether. I would communicate the facts pertaining to the topic of slavery and permit parents and children alike to arrive at their own moral conclusion. You seem to think the average citizen cannot conclude that slavery was an egregious and immoral practice without the government telling them so.

...should the child (and the parents) decide in that direction.

That is their right. It's called self-determination.

or maybe instead of asserting the facts we present that hitler was just misunderstood and the holocaust was maybe not such a big deal. bet the skin head parents would appreciate that argument being left open so that it could be clarified in the home

We could do that but it would be in direct opposition to what I previously advocated, i.e. abstaining from moral commentary altogether.
 
Yes, that's precisely what I'm saying. It's not the government's prerogative to impute an act with a moral qualification. In doing so, the government is morally indoctrinating its students which is a right and responsibility retained solely by parents.



No, I would abstain from moral commentary altogether
. I would communicate the facts pertaining to the topic of slavery and permit parents and children alike to arrive at their own moral conclusion. You seem to think the average citizen cannot conclude that slavery was an egregious and immoral practice without the government telling them so.



That is their right. It's called self-determination.



We could do that but it would be in direct opposition to what I previously advocated, i.e. abstaining from moral commentary altogether
.

based on that comment, i only hope you are not authorized to teach 19th century history
 
I'd just explain to my child that the teacher has his own opinion and it's one not shared by the entire country. Not even a majority in fact. I'd also explain that the teacher is not the final say in what is or is not morally wrong. I'd also explain that the comparison it internment camps is like comparing a decapitation to an injury requiring a band aid. And that as far as analogies goes the teacher has his head buried somewhere deep. Maybe in not so many words, but I would teach my child a proper analogy in any event. This way the next time the teacher makes a patently stupid analogy my 4th grader can correct him.
 
Ok so I had a discussion with my son tonight. 4th grade. Apparently they were talking about the waterboarding and Obama apologizing for it in school. OK fine. However the teacher apparently wanted to make the point that this is not the first time American arrogance has led to us doing things that we later regretted out of fear. Ok.

So to bring her point home she introduces them to World War 2 and Japanese Internment camps.

Jeeeezus.

Through the course of the conversation I realized my son did not know about Hitler, the holocaust, Jewish camps, European nations falling like dominoes, or Pearl Harbor. He just learned about the US failure of Japanese Internment camps.

Am I wrong for going ape****?

I think 4th grade is too young to be teaching aspects of war, really. Kids that young are not capable of the critical thinking required to understand the issue and take a stance. They are far more likely to mimic what the adult authority has to say on the matter, just like your son did.

My argument wouldn't be that the teacher is being pro-Obama, but that she is discussing issues that are beyond the scope of a 4th grade class.

I disagree that homeschooling is the answer. Homeschooling will remove your child from the discourse altogether. He or you shouldn't have to run when confronted with an issue like this.
 
I'd just explain to my child that the teacher has his own opinion and it's one not shared by the entire country. Not even a majority in fact. I'd also explain that the teacher is not the final say in what is or is not morally wrong. I'd also explain that the comparison it internment camps is like comparing a decapitation to an injury requiring a band aid. And that as far as analogies goes the teacher has his head buried somewhere deep. Maybe in not so many words, but I would teach my child a proper analogy in any event. This way the next time the teacher makes a patently stupid analogy my 4th grader can correct him.

Reason number 1 why kids should eb taught about internment camps ^^^.
What a thoroughly retarded psot with no basis in reality.

"They are not internment camps"

Can i have some of what ur smoking?
 
I think 4th grade is too young to be teaching aspects of war, really. Kids that young are not capable of the critical thinking required to understand the issue and take a stance. They are far more likely to mimic what the adult authority has to say on the matter, just like your son did.

I thoroughly disagree.
 
This is a glimpse into the idea of history. Hopefully this teacher has sparked the curiosity of a young mind. And not just that. It seems it took this event to inspire a parent to begin taking this process seriously with its child.

This child is not going tot ake this teachers point of view of history through tis life as gospel. And it will be subjected to amny biased sources (there are NO objective sources on such issues), both in and outside the home. U gona teach ur kid to be hostile and scared of this? Or to be curious, openminded but critical of everything? Sounds like the perfect time for you to have the latter conversation with ru child. And hats of tot eacher for being a catylyst.
 
based on that comment, i only hope you are not authorized to teach 19th century history

Which comment? You just quoted my entire post. Either way, it's not terribly important. It's obvious you have nothing to support your position. You just like government sponsored social engineering.
 
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