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Thread: A new way to fix the student loan problem in the USA.

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    Re: A new way to fix the student loan problem in the USA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irredentist View Post
    Maybe education isn't strictly about training people for jobs? If America is expecting its citizens to be voting and participating members of society, shouldn't we be invested in their education, and want them to be informed and capable of critical thought, not to just accept whatever they are told?
    If someone convinced you you had to go 80k in debt to be an informed critical thinker...

    it didnt work.

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    Re: A new way to fix the student loan problem in the USA.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If someone convinced you you had to go 80k in debt to be an informed critical thinker...

    it didnt work.
    Most people aren't 80k in debt to the department of education. Frankly you shouldn't have to go into debt at all. I think that all higher education as well as vocational training should be publicly funded for those with the interest and capability.

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    Re: A new way to fix the student loan problem in the USA.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If we want to get conspiratorial, you can see the pattern. Destroy the family, use the education system as a means of social indoctrination as opposed to actual education, send woefully unprepared students to colleges where they are indoctrinated for 6-8 years, saddle them with a mountain of debt (that they pay to the University), then have their University educators indoctrinate them with the notion that their debt and woes are all the evil bank and student lenders fault.
    All four of my children graduated with liberal arts degrees. My oldest son went to medical school and then enlisted as an Army doctor, 3 tours of duty, resigning after his first wife passed, to care for his young children. My younger son picked up a masters in logistics from a well known business college, and enlisted serving 4 tours of duty. Both served in Iraq and Afghanistan. My older son heads a trauma team at a major hospital, my younger son, a CEO at a major and growing corporation. Both my daughters went on to nursing, also serving in the military, both became registered nurses, the older a nurse practitioner. All four went into debt for their educations, tho I would have easily and gladly covered the entire bill, their choices. All 4 married and I have sixteen grandchildren, one great grandchild, who's married mother is back in school for her liberal arts degree.

    All 4 work today. They know they will inherit well, and have no financial need to work. They have all repaid their education loans. They are not an anomaly. They learned responsibility from their parents and living grandparents. They were not indoctrinated, they have their own minds, make their own decisions. We often do not agree on social and political views, but we all love and care for each other. I am thrilled with my grandchildren who are smarter than I am and was at their ages. They are extremely liberal for the most part, and idealistic. I am proud of all of them. Not all are going to college, but that is the aspiration of most. The others have already chosen other careers as skilled craftspeople. One as a cabinet maker, three as professional musicians. Those 4 are well on their way in their future professional careers. The one luxury they all enjoy is a loving supportive family.

    You paint with a broad brush. Reality is a much more diverse story. Achievement is not embedded merely in education, or the type of degrees attained. It comes from personal choices and hard work. It must come from within. All our children are deserving of more credit than you give them. Even when they screw up. If we are fortunate, we learn from out mistakes. One person's mistake is another's stroke of good fortune. How many inventions and discoveries that changed our world for the better came from mistakes?
    What kind of a man is a man who has not left this world a better place?

    No one is in control.

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    Re: A new way to fix the student loan problem in the USA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irredentist View Post
    Most people aren't 80k in debt to the department of education. Frankly you shouldn't have to go into debt at all. I think that all higher education as well as vocational training should be publicly funded for those with the interest and capability.
    What you think is not reality...itís just another brick in the wall.


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    Re: A new way to fix the student loan problem in the USA.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    All four of my children graduated with liberal arts degrees. My oldest son went to medical school and then enlisted as an Army doctor, 3 tours of duty, resigning after his first wife passed, to care for his young children. My younger son picked up a masters in logistics from a well known business college, and enlisted serving 4 tours of duty. Both served in Iraq and Afghanistan. My older son heads a trauma team at a major hospital, my younger son, a CEO at a major and growing corporation. Both my daughters went on to nursing, also serving in the military, both became registered nurses, the older a nurse practitioner. All four went into debt for their educations, tho I would have easily and gladly covered the entire bill, their choices. All 4 married and I have sixteen grandchildren, one great grandchild, who's married mother is back in school for her liberal arts degree.

    All 4 work today. They know they will inherit well, and have no financial need to work. They have all repaid their education loans. They are not an anomaly. They learned responsibility from their parents and living grandparents. They were not indoctrinated, they have their own minds, make their own decisions. We often do not agree on social and political views, but we all love and care for each other. I am thrilled with my grandchildren who are smarter than I am and was at their ages. They are extremely liberal for the most part, and idealistic. I am proud of all of them. Not all are going to college, but that is the aspiration of most. The others have already chosen other careers as skilled craftspeople. One as a cabinet maker, three as professional musicians. Those 4 are well on their way in their future professional careers. The one luxury they all enjoy is a loving supportive family.

    You paint with a broad brush. Reality is a much more diverse story. Achievement is not embedded merely in education, or the type of degrees attained. It comes from personal choices and hard work. It must come from within. All our children are deserving of more credit than you give them. Even when they screw up. If we are fortunate, we learn from out mistakes. One person's mistake is another's stroke of good fortune. How many inventions and discoveries that changed our world for the better came from mistakes?
    Did you miss the part where I said that the liberal
    Arts degree is worthless Unless you use it as a springboard for an advanced degree? Sounds like what your kids did. Good for them. They didnít become doctors with a Liberal Arts degree.


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    Re: A new way to fix the student loan problem in the USA.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Did you miss the part where I said that the liberal
    Arts degree is worthless Unless you use it as a springboard for an advanced degree? Sounds like what your kids did. Good for them. They didn’t become doctors with a Liberal Arts degree.
    My kids took their paths, others did not, accomplished with those degrees and no more, just as some accomplish with no degrees. The most successful businessman I know never got past grammar school. Apprenticed as a plumber in his home country, migrated here and built a real estate empire of 2 and 3 family houses while working as a plumber, and gas stations, tho he couldn't fix a broken headlight. Invested profits in commodities and the stock market, retired with an $800 mil fortune 20 years ago at 52. Still drives his old Jeep Wrangler. Keeps a top line Mercedes in his garage for driving to church on Sundays.
    What kind of a man is a man who has not left this world a better place?

    No one is in control.

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    Re: A new way to fix the student loan problem in the USA.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    My kids took their paths, others did not, accomplished with those degrees and no more, just as some accomplish with no degrees. The most successful businessman I know never got past grammar school. Apprenticed as a plumber in his home country, migrated here and built a real estate empire of 2 and 3 family houses while working as a plumber, and gas stations, tho he couldn't fix a broken headlight. Invested profits in commodities and the stock market, retired with an $800 mil fortune 20 years ago at 52. Still drives his old Jeep Wrangler. Keeps a top line Mercedes in his garage for driving to church on Sundays.
    That would be in line with the point I was making...sure. One of the most brilliant men Iíve ever known was a second taught machinist. Could design and build pretty much anything but overall his brain was just next level. Brilliant. Could converse with Asian engineers and the grinders over beer...


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    Re: A new way to fix the student loan problem in the USA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irredentist View Post
    Maybe education isn't strictly about training people for jobs? If America is expecting its citizens to be voting and participating members of society, shouldn't we be invested in their education, and want them to be informed and capable of critical thought, not to just accept whatever they are told?
    If K-12 is failing to fulfill that basic function, that raises important questions.

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    Re: A new way to fix the student loan problem in the USA.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    That would be in line with the point I was making...sure. One of the most brilliant men I’ve ever known was a second taught machinist. Could design and build pretty much anything but overall his brain was just next level. Brilliant. Could converse with Asian engineers and the grinders over beer...
    The benefit of higher learning, is the end result of being able to learn better and better appreciate knowledge for its own beauty. Accomplishment is secondary.
    What kind of a man is a man who has not left this world a better place?

    No one is in control.

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    Re: A new way to fix the student loan problem in the USA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irredentist View Post
    Maybe education isn't strictly about training people for jobs? If America is expecting its citizens to be voting and participating members of society, shouldn't we be invested in their education, and want them to be informed and capable of critical thought, not to just accept whatever they are told?
    It doesn't have to be but that's not what's happening. College kids are taking on thousands of dollars in loans to obtain these degrees, under the pretext that they guarantee well-paying jobs after college. That's not what happens for a large number of them, and those that do find decent jobs are often so in debt that they don't break even for years, if ever.

    Again, Rowe isn't saying that nobody should ever go to college, he's simply suggesting that you seriously consider what your goal is first and actually have a goal before you pay you up. Don't spend thousands attempting to "find yourself" or whatever. If you want to spend the money to be well-educated on this or that topic, by all means, but understand the financial burden that could come with it. If you just want a decent job to start out, then consider trade schools and apprenticeships. You make good money first, then you can pursue more educational passions later on when you are financially stable.

    In today's day and age we have access to a multitude of free or cheap educational resources that our grandparents never had. The idea of "university" doesn't hold the same weight that it once did. A determined and focused person can become fairly well-educated on their own time. Especially with the biases present in campuses now, it's become less about critical thought and more about indoctrination.
    And what would a Ranger know of this matter?

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