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Thread: 2018 Pisa Scores- USA 31st in the World for Education. Might IQ averages Explain Why?

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    2018 Pisa Scores- USA 31st in the World for Education. Might IQ averages Explain Why?

    I've read a fair bit about the results of the 2018 Pisa scores, which measure the capabilities of 15 year old students worldwide in reading, math & science. I've seen every imaginable excuse made for why the USA came in 31st in, while countries in Asia and Nordic countries took the top spots. Some experts blame unfair gender roles, some blame inequality in American schools- all the typical politically correct reasoning we've been conditioned to accept. I noticed something however that the paid experts missed: Pisa scores from 2015-2016 match up nicely with IQ averages. Rankings haven't changed much since then. For example:

    Top 10 Countries for Highest IQ

    1. Singapore (1st place Pisa)
    2. Hong Kong( 2nd place Pisa)
    3. Taiwan (6th place Pisa)
    4. South Korea (9th place Pisa)
    5. Japan (3rd place Pisa)
    6. China (10th place Pisa)
    7. Switzerland (15th place Pisa)
    8. Netherlands (13th place Pisa)
    9. North Korea (not available)
    10. Macao (4th place Pisa)

    The United Kingdom is 16th for IQ, 23rd for Pisa.
    The USA is 27th in IQ, and 31st for Pisa.
    Israel is 42nd in IQ, and 39th in Pisa.
    ---------------

    Is it possible that educational experts are completely missing the role of IQ in predicting educational outcomes? I think its very likely, especially given the 'taboo' nature of discussing natural differences in IQ, which prevents just about everyone from even considering it as a factor.

    IQ by Country

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    Re: 2018 Pisa Scores- USA 31st in the World for Education. Might IQ averages Explain Why?

    For me most interesting thing is that why Canada is much better than US ? Population in US is more diverse, schools are arranged differently and some other things? I'm a bit shocked about Sweden, I didn't know how much it's behind other Nordic countries.

    Truth is that I'm worried about our education system here and reason is what I hear from teachers (I'm not talking with them on regular basis, but when I meet I'm always asking where we are at). Thing is that even teachers can't tell all the details about what's working and what's not (teachers have some 'artistic' freedom and some ideas are better than others, some are just worthless). One, what I heard so far from multiple teachers, is that relying heavily on technology isn't unambiguously good thing (as we should look closely learning process and all different aspects of it, how people learn and what kind of use of technology is working). Here many (if not all) get tablets or laptop from school now (maybe you knew it, it's also funded by taxation) - so when our performance is dropping like it is now, we should think what steps we're taking and what's the real effect - whatever it is, when it comes to learning process.

    Personally I have to say that I'm not highly educated individual, most likely lower IQ Finn, so take - what I'm saying - with grain of salt. Like I'm not expert on this, just how I'm thinking just now.
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    Re: 2018 Pisa Scores- USA 31st in the World for Education. Might IQ averages Explain Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthatallcost View Post

    I think its very likely, especially given the 'taboo' nature of discussing natural differences in IQ, which prevents just about everyone from even considering it as a factor.


    Yes, this is indeed a taboo topic, so -- of course -- I will NOT state my opinion about its substance.

    It is a subject that simply cannot be discussed in public because it is so hurtful.

    Everyone has his/her own opinion that can be discussed only in private.

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    Re: 2018 Pisa Scores- USA 31st in the World for Education. Might IQ averages Explain Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by FinnFox View Post
    For me most interesting thing is that why Canada is much better than US ? Population in US is more diverse, schools are arranged differently and some other things? I'm a bit shocked about Sweden, I didn't know how much it's behind other Nordic countries.

    Truth is that I'm worried about our education system here and reason is what I hear from teachers (I'm not talking with them on regular basis, but when I meet I'm always asking where we are at). Thing is that even teachers can't tell all the details about what's working and what's not (teachers have some 'artistic' freedom and some ideas are better than others, some are just worthless). One, what I heard so far from multiple teachers, is that relying heavily on technology isn't unambiguously good thing (as we should look closely learning process and all different aspects of it, how people learn and what kind of use of technology is working). Here many (if not all) get tablets or laptop from school now (maybe you knew it, it's also funded by taxation) - so when our performance is dropping like it is now, we should think what steps we're taking and what's the real effect - whatever it is, when it comes to learning process.

    Personally I have to say that I'm not highly educated individual, most likely lower IQ Finn, so take - what I'm saying - with grain of salt. Like I'm not expert on this, just how I'm thinking just now.

    Who knows. One of the criticisms of these particular rankings is they use a lot of modeled data based on a comparatively small sample of students in a small sample of schools as opposed to a broad cross section.

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    Re: 2018 Pisa Scores- USA 31st in the World for Education. Might IQ averages Explain Why?

    It is 100% about our piss poor education system. IQ tests do not test your intrinsic intelligence independent of your education.

    I can't believe the OP's argument is so stupid and America hating that he's actually claiming we're just intrinsically dumber than 30 other countries therefore we shouldn't try to improve our objectively sagging educational standards.

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    Re: 2018 Pisa Scores- USA 31st in the World for Education. Might IQ averages Explain Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    It is 100% about our piss poor education system. IQ tests do not test your intrinsic intelligence independent of your education.

    I can't believe the OP's argument is so stupid and America hating that he's actually claiming we're just intrinsically dumber than 30 other countries therefore we shouldn't try to improve our objectively sagging educational standards.

    Still, this might explain why the money we spend is high and the results we get are low.

    If Americans are just plain stupid, this might explain why our test scores make us look like we are just plain stupid.

    However, if we are not intrinsically more stupid than other populations, then the educational system inflicted upon our children needs to be examined because it is failing.

    We are faced with a choice of issues to address:

    Are Americans, as a population, just plain stupid or is our educational system based on failed ideas and processes and in dire need of repair?

    Identifying the problem is first step to solving the problem. If we are just plain stupid, then we need to have a global Affirmative Action program that gives us favorable treatment worldwide.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. -Winston Churchill

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    Re: 2018 Pisa Scores- USA 31st in the World for Education. Might IQ averages Explain Why?

    I've seen every imaginable excuse made for why the USA came in 31st
    Now everybody just move along as fast as you can!!!!
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    Re: 2018 Pisa Scores- USA 31st in the World for Education. Might IQ averages Explain Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    Yes, this is indeed a taboo topic, so -- of course -- I will NOT state my opinion about its substance.

    It is a subject that simply cannot be discussed in public because it is so hurtful.

    Everyone has his/her own opinion that can be discussed only in private.
    Actually, I have no problem discussing it in the public school where I work at.


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    Nothing, and I mean nothing for the better will happen in politics until we first reform our very citizenry
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    Re: 2018 Pisa Scores- USA 31st in the World for Education. Might IQ averages Explain Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Still, this might explain why the money we spend is high and the results we get are low.

    If Americans are just plain stupid, this might explain why our test scores make us look like we are just plain stupid.

    However, if we are not intrinsically more stupid than other populations, then the educational system inflicted upon our children needs to be examined because it is failing.

    We are faced with a choice of issues to address:

    Are Americans, as a population, just plain stupid or is our educational system based on failed ideas and processes and in dire need of repair?

    Identifying the problem is first step to solving the problem. If we are just plain stupid, then we need to have a global Affirmative Action program that gives us favorable treatment worldwide.
    I reject your hatred of America and Americans. Spending a lot of money does not mean it's being spent effectively. It seems like you're a contributor to the problem.

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    Re: 2018 Pisa Scores- USA 31st in the World for Education. Might IQ averages Explain Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthatallcost View Post
    I've read a fair bit about the results of the 2018 Pisa scores, which measure the capabilities of 15 year old students worldwide in reading, math & science. I've seen every imaginable excuse made for why the USA came in 31st in, while countries in Asia and Nordic countries took the top spots. Some experts blame unfair gender roles, some blame inequality in American schools- all the typical politically correct reasoning we've been conditioned to accept. I noticed something however that the paid experts missed: Pisa scores from 2015-2016 match up nicely with IQ averages. Rankings haven't changed much since then. For example:

    Top 10 Countries for Highest IQ

    1. Singapore (1st place Pisa)
    2. Hong Kong( 2nd place Pisa)
    3. Taiwan (6th place Pisa)
    4. South Korea (9th place Pisa)
    5. Japan (3rd place Pisa)
    6. China (10th place Pisa)
    7. Switzerland (15th place Pisa)
    8. Netherlands (13th place Pisa)
    9. North Korea (not available)
    10. Macao (4th place Pisa)

    The United Kingdom is 16th for IQ, 23rd for Pisa.
    The USA is 27th in IQ, and 31st for Pisa.
    Israel is 42nd in IQ, and 39th in Pisa.
    ---------------

    Is it possible that educational experts are completely missing the role of IQ in predicting educational outcomes? I think its very likely, especially given the 'taboo' nature of discussing natural differences in IQ, which prevents just about everyone from even considering it as a factor.

    IQ by Country

    My son spent a year in South Korea teaching English to young SK students. The culture of SK is based on education. Student attend class 12 hours a day. Public in the morning, private for the rest of the day, into the evening. They attend classes on Saturday.

    It's obvious that is not the case in the United States.

    It's all about the college entrance exams. So, what impact does family and culture have on IQ, and/or capabilities in 15 year olds?
    Nancy Pelosi: March, 2019
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