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New Florida bill would require public schools to offer Bible courses

JacksinPA

JacksinPA

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New Florida bill would require public schools to offer Bible courses | TheHill

A proposed bill introduced in the Florida Legislature seeks to require public schools in the state to offer Bible courses as electives for high school students.

Under the bill, each public school district in the state would be required to offer elective courses relating to religion, Hebrew Scriptures and the Bible to students in grades nine through 12.
=====================================================
So much for the separation of church & state.

The shortest sentence in the Bible applies here: Jesus wept. John 11:35
 
JacksinPA said:
New Florida bill would require public schools to offer Bible courses | TheHill

A proposed bill introduced in the Florida Legislature seeks to require public schools in the state to offer Bible courses as electives for high school students.

Under the bill, each public school district in the state would be required to offer elective courses relating to religion, Hebrew Scriptures and the Bible to students in grades nine through 12.
=====================================================
So much for the separation of church & state.

The shortest sentence in the Bible applies here: Jesus wept. John 11:35
Click to expand...

Now imagine if the Quran was mandated in this case the religious hypocrites would be up in arms.
 
JacksinPA said:
New Florida bill would require public schools to offer Bible courses | TheHill

A proposed bill introduced in the Florida Legislature seeks to require public schools in the state to offer Bible courses as electives for high school students.

Under the bill, each public school district in the state would be required to offer elective courses relating to religion, Hebrew Scriptures and the Bible to students in grades nine through 12.
=====================================================
So much for the separation of church & state.

The shortest sentence in the Bible applies here: Jesus wept. John 11:35
Click to expand...
I thought we weren't supposed to make laws respecting an establishment of religion.
 
I will say it again; religion has NO place in public schools......I have always been an advocate of keeping public education strictly to education, not indoctrination.

To that end, I dont think we should be playing games and dancing around the edge of disingenuous arguments that allow "religious creep" of any variety in public education.

No bible studies, no muslim prayer times or rooms set aside for such, no holidays to be observed in the public education arena; if you want your kids to be brought up in a religious school, there are plenty of private schools willing to offer religious indoctrination.

Your right to religious freedom does not extend to taxpayer funded support of your beliefs.....whatever your spiritual belief, you are not entitled to special accommodation at government expense.
 
Honestly, I wish the school system would include the study of religion in the curriculum. Just imagine if the young people in this country actually learned the commonality and differences of various races and religions. It might actually improve the civil recourse of this country.

Teaching one religion is an ABSOLUTE NO!!! Teaching religion as a subtext of history, fantastic!
 
charliebrown said:
Honestly, I wish the school system would include the study of religion in the curriculum. Just imagine if the young people in this country actually learned the commonality and differences of various races and religions. It might actually improve the civil recourse of this country.

Teaching one religion is an ABSOLUTE NO!!! Teaching religion as a subtext of history, fantastic!
Click to expand...

While I agree with your basic sentiment, this is not about adding a comparative religion or religious history course addressing the world's major religions - this is a straight out Bible study class with the Bible as the only text book used.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
While I agree with your basic sentiment, this is not about adding a comparative religion or religious history course addressing the world's major religions - this is a straight out Bible study class with the Bible as the only text book used.
Click to expand...

And I said ABSOLUTELY NO to that.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
While I agree with your basic sentiment, this is not about adding a comparative religion or religious history course addressing the world's major religions - this is a straight out Bible study class with the Bible as the only text book used.
Click to expand...
Bible study should not exist in public schools.
 
The Mark said:
Bible study should not exist in public schools.
Click to expand...

I agree unless it is simply part of an elective comparative religions or religious history course. Keep in mind that colleges are also public schools.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I agree unless it is simply part of an elective comparative religions or religious history course. Keep in mind that colleges are also public schools.
Click to expand...
I used "bible study" because as I understand the phrase it does not qualify as a comparative religion or religious history course
 
charliebrown said:
Honestly, I wish the school system would include the study of religion in the curriculum. Just imagine if the young people in this country actually learned the commonality and differences of various races and religions. It might actually improve the civil recourse of this country.

Teaching one religion is an ABSOLUTE NO!!! Teaching religion as a subtext of history, fantastic!
Click to expand...

As I recall, histories of religions were taught in a public high school I attended. And schools honor great Christian feasts of Christmas and Easter by giving students time off. When I lived in NYC back in the day, Catholic kids got “released time” of two hours a week from public school to go to churches for religious instruction, and Jewish kids could take their holidays off from school without penalty. These were modest accommodations that I don’t think violate the Constitution.
 
In order to remain within the Constitution, I relieve they would have to offer the Bible alongside other faith books. If they do, I'm fine with it.

But straight-up, in my family from day one we've all just gone to Catholic schools. Why deal with the public school bureaucracy, when we can get a great faith & values based education down the block? And the best part? Catholic schools kick-out the slackers & trouble-makers. It's a much better environment.
 
Chomsky said:
In order to remain within the Constitution, I relieve they would have to offer the Bible alongside other faith books. If they do, I'm fine with it.

But straight-up, in my family from day one we've all just gone to Catholic schools. Why deal with the public school bureaucracy, when we can get a great faith & values based education down the block? And the best part? Catholic schools kick-out the slackers & trouble-makers. It's a much better environment.
Click to expand...

I've been through it, Chomsky. The kids were scared of the penguins. They came equipped with yardsticks up their big sleeves. But if you go bullied on the playground they just ignored it. You were supposed to grow up to be a man!
 
Praxas said:
Now imagine if the Quran was mandated in this case the religious hypocrites would be up in arms.
Click to expand...

If the system allows Christian bible classes, it will be.
 
Chomsky said:
In order to remain within the Constitution, I relieve they would have to offer the Bible alongside other faith books. If they do, I'm fine with it.

But straight-up, in my family from day one we've all just gone to Catholic schools. Why deal with the public school bureaucracy, when we can get a great faith & values based education down the block? And the best part? Catholic schools kick-out the slackers & trouble-makers. It's a much better environment.
Click to expand...

There are something like 4000 named religions. All with their own beliefs and texts. Which ones are you going to allow?
 
JacksinPA said:
New Florida bill would require public schools to offer Bible courses | TheHill

A proposed bill introduced in the Florida Legislature seeks to require public schools in the state to offer Bible courses as electives for high school students.

Under the bill, each public school district in the state would be required to offer elective courses relating to religion, Hebrew Scriptures and the Bible to students in grades nine through 12.
=====================================================
So much for the separation of church & state.

The shortest sentence in the Bible applies here: Jesus wept. John 11:35
Click to expand...

Well we know that one won't go anywhere, but comparative religion should be available if not as a stand alone class than as part of one of the other offerings like history.
 
This could be done and add a lot of value as a cultural asset that dovetails with everything from history to art, or music, or comparative religious studies, but so could a course on Judaism or Islam. I know as someone who hoped to major in literature, and who was not exposed to the traditions, experiences and ideas of either catholicism or Protestantism, let alone eastern orthodox or Mormonism I would read everything from Shakespeare to Joyce to a hundred poems, and plays and be lost because I just did not understand so much of the Christian vocabulary or their calendar and holdays or their symbolism that a 14 year old who was immersed in the faith and attended church would understand instinctively. For me 'Palm Sunday' referenced in a poem, represented a learning curve full of deepening significance and layers of possible meaning when a basic class that was designed as a cultural and historic reference point for college classes would have been of great benefit.

It cannot be a class to promote the faith, but it can certainly fill a knowledge void for many in high school, especially nowadays when church attendance is low, that helps prepare for a whole lot of majors in the arts and humanities .

You have to be careful here, but I won't dismiss this out of hand, without knowing the rest of the curriculum surrounding this, and what the school intends to do with this.
 
jimbo said:
There are something like 4000 named religions. All with their own beliefs and texts. Which ones are you going to allow?
Click to expand...
It's not for me to "allow" anything.
 
JacksinPA said:
New Florida bill would require public schools to offer Bible courses | TheHill

A proposed bill introduced in the Florida Legislature seeks to require public schools in the state to offer Bible courses as electives for high school students.

Under the bill, each public school district in the state would be required to offer elective courses relating to religion, Hebrew Scriptures and the Bible to students in grades nine through 12.
=====================================================
So much for the separation of church & state.

The shortest sentence in the Bible applies here: Jesus wept. John 11:35
Click to expand...

I have no problem with a world's religion class such as offered by most Universities. It should cover all the worlds major religions, including Confucianism, Hindu, and of course one of the worlds largest religions Islam.
 
JacksinPA said:
I've been through it, Chomsky. The kids were scared of the penguins. They came equipped with yardsticks up their big sleeves. But if you go bullied on the playground they just ignored it. You were supposed to grow up to be a man!
Click to expand...
Man, I'm blown away by all the bad Catholic school experiences so many here on this board are claiming.

I had a great Catholic school experience, and believe I got an exceptional education. The strong sense of family, neighborhood, and community, was something I never felt again since then. I still look back and marvel upon it. We even still meet-up together via the alumni association, and attend reunions. I feel so positive about my Catholic grammar & prep school experiences, that I did the same for my kids and they too feel the same as I.

Maybe my city just has a particularly good Catholic school system?
 
Chomsky said:
It's not for me to "allow" anything.
Click to expand...

You being the collective. If you prefer we or they, feel free.

But the question remains.

Schools are going to get a little bogged down teaching 4000 different religions.
 
jimbo said:
You being the collective. If you prefer we or they, feel free.

But the question remains.

Schools are going to get a little bogged down teaching 4000 different religions.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.

I think they all (religions) should be allowed. As I stated in my original post, as long as the school allows other religions to be represented, it would be fine. Remember - the Constitution does not ban religion from public places, but it only bans supporting religious preference.

So if the demographics support it, the school could probably add Koran & Tanakh study as well, thereby having representation of the three major religions in the U.S. Then take it from there.

But most importantly, I'd let the kids do their own grassroots pushes to start their own student-led study groups too. Perhaps there's some minor religion they've become fascinated with like the Bahá'í, which I flirted with on an intellectual level as a young person? Let the kids decide. Let them have at it!

I strongly believe in spiritual exploration, and kids are usually pretty good at wanting to find non-mainstream niches that appeal to them counter to their parents often more mainstream religions. So give them some room to explore. They'll learn about themselves, and probably end back at one of the mainstream religions like I did. They'll appreciate their faith more, and they'll be far better for the journey.

And while we're at it, why not have an academic comparative religions class? To get them thinking? I'm all for it!
 
charliebrown said:
Honestly, I wish the school system would include the study of religion in the curriculum. Just imagine if the young people in this country actually learned the commonality and differences of various races and religions. It might actually improve the civil recourse of this country.

Teaching one religion is an ABSOLUTE NO!!! Teaching religion as a subtext of history, fantastic!
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree more, charliebrown!

:thumbs:
 
JacksinPA said:
New Florida bill would require public schools to offer Bible courses | TheHill

A proposed bill introduced in the Florida Legislature seeks to require public schools in the state to offer Bible courses as electives for high school students.

Under the bill, each public school district in the state would be required to offer elective courses relating to religion, Hebrew Scriptures and the Bible to students in grades nine through 12.
=====================================================
So much for the separation of church & state.

The shortest sentence in the Bible applies here: Jesus wept. John 11:35
Click to expand...

It being elective is problematic.
 
JacksinPA said:
New Florida bill would require public schools to offer Bible courses | TheHill
A proposed bill introduced in the Florida Legislature seeks to require public schools in the state to offer Bible courses as electives for high school students.
Under the bill, each public school district in the state would be required to offer elective courses relating to religion, Hebrew Scriptures and the Bible to students in grades nine through 12.
=====================================================
So much for the separation of church & state.
The shortest sentence in the Bible applies here: Jesus wept. John 11:35
Click to expand...

There're amazingly large chunks of literature and other arts which are practically indecipherable without the context provided by Abrahamic religions.
If you are going to teach the arts in the Western world, you pretty much need to cover the Bible.

I'm unsure if the rates of bible study have changed over the years or not.
But it's possible that in the past more of the Bible was common knowledge. It was just taken for granted that student already knew certain things.

Additionally, the Abrahamic religions have had large impacts on law and other aspects of our culture.
It's important to understand these things if you are trying to understand our society and its history

All of that said, I suspect that the bill's sponsors have something else in mind.
 
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