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Thread: Are liberal democrats violating the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

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    Are liberal democrats violating the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

    From Article 26, Section 3:

    Quote Originally Posted by UDHR

    (3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.
    Seems to me a voucher system for education is the only way parents would have this "right to choose".


    Compare a public housing project to the section 8 voucher system. A public housing project is owned by the government, just like a public school is owned by the government. The Section 8 system gets poor people out of terrible public housing projects and lets them find a place in private housing. A voucher for education would let parents pull their kids out of failing public schools and let them pay for a private school.

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    Re: Are liberal democrats violating the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by aociswundumho View Post
    From Article 26, Section 3:



    Seems to me a voucher system for education is the only way parents would have this "right to choose".


    Compare a public housing project to the section 8 voucher system. A public housing project is owned by the government, just like a public school is owned by the government. The Section 8 system gets poor people out of terrible public housing projects and lets them find a place in private housing. A voucher for education would let parents pull their kids out of failing public schools and let them pay for a private school.
    A big problem with the voucher system is the lack of "fairness" which would result. Public schools (generally) pretend that a child aging one year is reason (cause?) to place them into the next grade level - private schools (generally) do not.

    Private schools tend to have admission, promotion and behavior standards which are far more strict (selective?) than public schools have. How, exactly, would your voucher system account for letting private educational facilities maintain their different (better?) standards for student admission, promotion and behavior?

    The reality is that some students/parents would clearly benefit from having that choice while others would not unless the government demands that private schools take and keep all students - turning them into the very thing that makes (many) public schools suck.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Are liberal democrats violating the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Public schools (generally) pretend that a child aging one year is reason (cause?) to place them into the next grade level - private schools (generally) do not.
    Which way do you think is better?

    Private schools tend to have admission, promotion and behavior standards which are far more strict (selective?) than public schools have. How, exactly, would your voucher system account for letting private educational facilities maintain their different (better?) standards for student admission, promotion and behavior?

    They could have any standards they want. You are forgetting that 90% of kids currently attend public schools. If those public schools were abolished, the private market for education would explode, and there would be schools for just about every kind of kids, just like there is food, clothing, housing, phones, etc. for just about every kind of person.

    The reality is that some students/parents would clearly benefit from having that choice while others would not unless the government demands that private schools take and keep all students - turning them into the very thing that makes (many) public schools suck.
    In no way should private schools be forced to take all students. They should each have their own standards like they do now.

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    Re: Are liberal democrats violating the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by aociswundumho View Post
    From Article 26, Section 3:



    Seems to me a voucher system for education is the only way parents would have this "right to choose".


    Compare a public housing project to the section 8 voucher system. A public housing project is owned by the government, just like a public school is owned by the government. The Section 8 system gets poor people out of terrible public housing projects and lets them find a place in private housing. A voucher for education would let parents pull their kids out of failing public schools and let them pay for a private school.
    You can choose anything you want.

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    Re: Are liberal democrats violating the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    A big problem with the voucher system is the lack of "fairness" which would result. Public schools (generally) pretend that a child aging one year is reason (cause?) to place them into the next grade level - private schools (generally) do not.

    Private schools tend to have admission, promotion and behavior standards which are far more strict (selective?) than public schools have. How, exactly, would your voucher system account for letting private educational facilities maintain their different (better?) standards for student admission, promotion and behavior?

    The reality is that some students/parents would clearly benefit from having that choice while others would not unless the government demands that private schools take and keep all students - turning them into the very thing that makes (many) public schools suck.
    Its not about the kids, it’s about the teacher’s unions and political power. Thats why there is such a fight about charter schools and school choice. You can’t have taxpayers getting all uppity.
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    Re: Are liberal democrats violating the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by aociswundumho View Post
    Which way do you think is better?




    They could have any standards they want. You are forgetting that 90% of kids currently attend public schools. If those public schools were abolished, the private market for education would explode, and there would be schools for just about every kind of kids, just like there is food, clothing, housing, phones, etc. for just about every kind of person.



    In no way should private schools be forced to take all students. They should each have their own standards like they do now.
    OK, given that bolded above freedom of choice on the private school's part, then what good is a voucher for a parent of someone who is now performing below grade level or refuses to study/behave? As parents of the better students opt their (better behaved?) children out of public schools that leaves those remaining in the public school system even worse off than they are now.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Are liberal democrats violating the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    OK, given that bolded above freedom of choice on the private school's part, then what good is a voucher for a parent of someone who is now performing below grade level
    I don't understand the question. Say I want to learn how to weld. What difference does it make as to how much knowledge I have when looking for a welding school to attend?


    or refuses to study/behave?
    What world do you live in where a private business must tolerate kids or adults who refuse to behave?


    As parents of the better students opt their (better behaved?) children out of public schools that leaves those remaining in the public school system even worse off than they are now.

    The idea is to abolish public schools completely.

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    Re: Are liberal democrats violating the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by aociswundumho View Post
    I don't understand the question. Say I want to learn how to weld. What difference does it make as to how much knowledge I have when looking for a welding school to attend?




    What world do you live in where a private business must tolerate kids or adults who refuse to behave?





    The idea is to abolish public schools completely.
    Send your kids anywhere you want. But I'm not paying for your private school

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    Re: Are liberal democrats violating the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiechan View Post
    Its not about the kids, it’s about the teacher’s unions and political power. Thats why there is such a fight about charter schools and school choice. You can’t have taxpayers getting all uppity.
    Somewhat true, but you can't deny that vouchers would allow (only?) the better students to opt into private schools while increasing the percentage of worse students left in the public school system.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Are liberal democrats violating the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by aociswundumho View Post
    From Article 26, Section 3:



    Seems to me a voucher system for education is the only way parents would have this "right to choose".


    Compare a public housing project to the section 8 voucher system. A public housing project is owned by the government, just like a public school is owned by the government. The Section 8 system gets poor people out of terrible public housing projects and lets them find a place in private housing. A voucher for education would let parents pull their kids out of failing public schools and let them pay for a private school.


    Are you saying there should be a federally funded voucher system of some dollar amount based on similar maximum income requirements as with Sec8? You do realize Sec8 housing isn't exactly the "private" quality you imply the schooling would be.

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