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Thread: Should Public Schooling Go Online?

  1. #11
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    Re: Should Public Schooling Go Online?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Jr View Post
    That is exactly what I said has been in existence for at least 5 years. Go to your local high school and ask about their homeschool program. It's all online. There's a website to do the course material and a separate secure website to take tests.
    I am talking about school districts actively offering gifted students (and eventually regular students) online schooling as an alternative option. I work at a high school, I tutor students on the side who do Schoology at home. I know what is available. I also know schools do not actively promote online schooling alternatives and the online schooling from home is usually for students who are at home for medical or psychological reasons.
    Last edited by Geoist; 03-19-19 at 12:19 PM.
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    Re: Should Public Schooling Go Online?

    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredUSN View Post
    I'm not sure this would fly with working families where mom and pop both have jobs?
    Some families would very much prefer having their kids continue their education at a brick and mortar school for various reasons. This is why I think schools should offer online schooling as an alternative option. Obviously, it shouldn't be mandatory.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Should Public Schooling Go Online?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I am talking about school districts actively offering gifted students (and eventually regular students) online schooling as an alternative option. I work at a high school, I tutor students on the side who do Schoology at home. I know what is available. I also know schools do not actively promote online schooling alternatives and the online schooling from home is usually for students who are at home for medical or psychological reasons.
    And what do you expect an online forum to do about that? Quit bitching to us and go talk to the people in your district who can actually do something about it. By-by
    Vaccines, because it's not always about you.

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    Re: Should Public Schooling Go Online?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Public education is, no doubt, an essential investment. However, with it taking up more than a quarter of most state budgets, are we getting the most bang for our tax bucks?
    If you think online education will save taxpayers money, then you are wildly off the mark.

    Additionally, this idea would only be viable for more urban areas of the country as far too many people in rural areas do not have access to reliable high speed Internet.

    With the popularity of online colleges growing, I wonder how much can be saved and redistributed to other programs/returned to taxpayers if online options were offered to gifted students and students with no significant disabilities?
    None. Because existing students will still use all the same things students currently do and those who choose the online route will cost schools even more money in Learning Systems, increased bandwidth, etc.

    Cutting down on class size and building size for future schools could not only have an impact budget-wise, but it could cut down on bullying, school violence, peer pressure, and just the overall stress of school in general
    Also false. In fact, in modern times, most bullying starts OUTSIDE the classroom and is brought to school. Thank you social media.

    Some may argue online options would hurt a student's social skills. I don't know if I really agree with that.
    Then you and I live in two different worlds.

    Students can acquire more social skills through extracurricular activities
    How? If mom and dad are working, how does student get to school for extra curriculars?

    , family members, and friends in their neighborhood.
    Socialization is more than that though.

    A lot of the socialization in middle school/high school can be extremely negative
    But for many kids, it is extremely positive.

    which leads to fights, threats, harrassment, cyberstalking, and school shootings. I haven't dived real deep into any numbers, but there doesn't seem to be much on the internet about this idea.
    Because it is not a very good idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I am talking about school districts actively offering gifted students (and eventually regular students) online schooling as an alternative option.
    Exactly. The schools have to pay for their existing costs AND add to them with additional costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    what do children receive in brick and mortar schools that they could not achieve online?
    Plenty. Socialization. A hot meal. Individual help. Human connections. Learning responsibility in a well rounded manner. Extra curriculars such as sports.

    Online schooling doesn't help any of that.

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    Re: Should Public Schooling Go Online?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Jr View Post
    And what do you expect an online forum to do about that? Quit bitching to us and go talk to the people in your district who can actually do something about it.
    Why are you even here if you think it is pointless to discuss political matters on a political forum? Seriously? Get lost.


    By-by
    It is spelled 'bye.' Perhaps you should work on your own education before criticizing others for their ideas for education reform.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Should Public Schooling Go Online?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    If you think online education will save taxpayers money, then you are wildly off the mark.

    Additionally, this idea would only be viable for more urban areas of the country as far too many people in rural areas do not have access to reliable high speed Internet.
    I am not talking about access to 60 FPS for internet gaming. Most places can access websites with no problem. If they have such limited access, or if they have no internet then they can go to the public library... or they can stick with the brick and mortar school as I already mentioned. I am not making the claim that this proposal is best for every community so your point is moot.

    None. Because existing students will still use all the same things students currently do and those who choose the online route will cost schools even more money in Learning Systems, increased bandwidth, etc.
    Most public schools now use online learning systems. The only difference is some would access them from home instead of the classroom. My school gives students IPads which they use on a daily basis, but yeah, my proposal would only increase bandwidth for the school.

    Also false. In fact, in modern times, most bullying starts OUTSIDE the classroom and is brought to school. Thank you social media.
    You are making an awful lot of claims without sources to back them up...


    How? If mom and dad are working, how does student get to school for extra curriculars?
    If that is an issue then they can continue going to brick and mortar school. Or they could carpool, take public transportation, or drive themselves if they have their license. Lots of options out there.

    Socialization is more than that though.
    More than what?

    But for many kids, it is extremely positive.
    Whatever positives they get from high school can also be acquired in other social situations.

    Because it is not a very good idea.
    Well, you haven't done very well with the counterargument.

    Exactly. The schools have to pay for their existing costs AND add to them with additional costs.
    If there is a sizeable percentage of students taking their classes at home that helps cut down on the building's upkeep. Future schools would not require the size they currently require.


    Plenty. Socialization. A hot meal. Individual help. Human connections. Learning responsibility in a well rounded manner. Extra curriculars such as sports.
    If they cannot get a hot meal at home then the option to go to school is still there. Who said they cannot get individual help? When I took online courses I got plenty of individual help from my professors. I tutor students who are homebound and they get far more individual help than the typical student stuck in a 25-30 student classroom.
    Last edited by Geoist; 03-19-19 at 09:12 PM.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: Should Public Schooling Go Online?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I am not talking about access to 60 FPS for internet gaming.
    No, but you ARE talking about a minimum of 5 Mbps for video streaming, which in many rural areas cannot be had, at least not without satellite Internet which comes with its own issues.

    Most places can access websites with no problem.
    I know way too many people, students and adults, who are at 3 Mbps or less.

    If they have such limited access, or if they have no internet then they can go to the public library... or they can stick with the brick and mortar school as I already mentioned.
    Exactly. Nothing is to the better, but the school is now burdened with extra expenses. That is the flaw in your proposal.

    I am not making the claim that this proposal is best for every community so your point is moot.
    But you cannot do it on a per community basis, it has to be done at the state or federal level. Because the initial premise of yours was that online school could cut taxpayer costs. But at a community level, it is not cutting taxpayer costs in any way, shape or form. So it has to be mandated, at the minimum, at the state level, which means all the issues I've noted come back into play.

    Most public schools now use online learning systems.
    I'd love to see your source on "most". Keep in mind, I'm not talking about G-Suite for Education (which would be inadequate for this project), I'm talking about a full LMS.

    The only difference is some would access them from home instead of the classroom. My school gives students IPads which they use on a daily basis, but yeah, my proposal would only increase bandwidth for the school.
    It would. Because, as you said, there will still be students in school using those iPads. But now you also have download AND upload bandwidth occurring, as home students access videos and other instructional materials from your LMS. That will definitely increase your bandwidth costs.

    You are making an awful lot of claims without sources to back them up...
    11+ years of teaching and working in public school district's tech department. A mother who recently retired from a 13 year run as superintendent. Good friends who are principals. A father who was a teacher for 30+ years who is friends with administrators.

    Call it anecdotal, but it is pretty strong anecdotal evidence. But here's a source you can use, if you'd like: A Majority of Teens Have Experienced Some Form of Cyberbullying | Pew Research Center

    If that is an issue then they can continue going to brick and mortar school.
    And with a significant number of students at brick and mortar, there is no cost benefit to online, but rather a cost increase. As I've said.

    More than what?
    More than family members and neighborhood kids.

    Whatever positives they get from high school can also be acquired in other social situations.
    Disagree completely. A rich kid becoming friends with a poor kid does not happen without school, since they live in different neighborhoods. Making connections with teachers and coaches which guide them through college and early adulthood do not happen in "other social situations". Teamwork, compassion, empathy, lifelong connections are not simply things which occur, but are taught and practiced.

    Well, you haven't done very well with the counterargument.
    I have completely obliterated the idea of what you claimed was the primary benefit (taxpayer costs).

    Everything else is just gravy.

    If there is a sizeable percentage of students taking their classes at home that helps cut down on the building's upkeep.
    Uhh...how in the world do you figure that? Does the grass grow less if fewer students are on campus? Does the kitchen dishwasher break down less because it knows enrollment is down? Do custodians stop sweeping the halls every night?

    I'd love to know how you figure building upkeep goes down.

    Future schools would not require the size they currently require.
    Sure, "future" schools possibly could be built smaller. But there are nearly 100,000 public schools in the United States right now which do not see a single benefit from your plan.

    If they cannot get a hot meal at home then the option to go to school is still there.
    Which means the cost savings is no longer there. Thus, there is no valid argument for your proposal and many against.

    Who said they cannot get individual help? When I took online courses I got plenty of individual help from my professors.
    There's a difference between a college student and a 6th grader. I hope I do not have to explain any further than that.
    Last edited by Slyfox696; 03-20-19 at 11:17 AM.

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    Re: Should Public Schooling Go Online?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    what do children receive in brick and mortar schools that they could not achieve online?
    i suspect the future will be a melding of the two approaches
    Home is not the same academic setting as a school classroom. The setting, environment, the leadership of an instructor in the classroom and the discipline both behaviorally and academically would not be duplicated in the home in the way it usually is in the school classroom.

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    Re: Should Public Schooling Go Online?

    If the purpose is to get a better education, then spend the money more wisely. Stop sending teachers and administrators across country at great expense to get some training that usually is not worth the expense. Thousands of dollars are spent when teachers and administration goes flies hundreds of miles and stays in expensive hotels and eats expensive meals to hear some person speak on things like why project based lessons are good or why structure in the classroom benefits most students or why students should guide their own education. Lets spend in on more teachers, a better teacher/student ratio and better materials in the classroom.

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    Re: Should Public Schooling Go Online?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Public education is, no doubt, an essential investment. However, with it taking up more than a quarter of most state budgets, are we getting the most bang for our tax bucks? With the popularity of online colleges growing, I wonder how much can be saved and redistributed to other programs/returned to taxpayers if online options were offered to gifted students and students with no significant disabilities? Cutting down on class size and building size for future schools could not only have an impact budget-wise, but it could cut down on bullying, school violence, peer pressure, and just the overall stress of school in general (honestly, who fondly remembers middle school or high school?) Some may argue online options would hurt a student's social skills. I don't know if I really agree with that. Students can acquire more social skills through extracurricular activities, family members, and friends in their neighborhood. A lot of the socialization in middle school/high school can be extremely negative which leads to fights, threats, harrassment, cyberstalking, and school shootings. I haven't dived real deep into any numbers, but there doesn't seem to be much on the internet about this idea.
    Although some would be reluctant to state this but the fact is that one of the significant functions of public schooling is childcare, especially today with so many families needing both parents working. So at the lower levels (K - 8th grade) that would not be very practical. For higher education it is more plausible. What I see as more likely is that for content related coursework there will eventually be a "virtual" professor/teacher who will provide the lecture component for hundreds of schools with support staff to handle the rest.

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