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Push to Get Books Off of Required Reading Lists

roguenuke said:
In this case, it was specifically commented that her issue was with the sex part. In fact, she said what brought her attention to it was her son repeated the word "hard-on", as if he was questioning it (which is sort of odd for a 14 year old to not know). Then she said she read some of that particular part of the book and that it talked about a porn store (or someone selling porn) and people having sex. She noted he was within the last 10 pages of the book.
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Is there some reason you chose to respond only to the most ancillary element of my reply to your central question?

You wrote in your OP:
My question is have you or would you push to get a book removed from the required reading list for its content?
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What that woman thinks or said, or what you or others think or say on the matter, has nothing to do with whether I would or have pushed "to get a book removed from the required reading list for its content." You asked the question; I answered it, explaining why as well.

roguenuke said:
In this case, it was specifically commented that her issue was with the sex part. In fact, she said what brought her attention to it was her son repeated the word "hard-on", as if he was questioning it (which is sort of odd for a 14 year old to not know). Then she said she read some of that particular part of the book and that it talked about a porn store (or someone selling porn) and people having sex. She noted he was within the last 10 pages of the book.
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Red:
Well, insofar as that's what the woman said, why did you in your OP describe your comprehension of her objection as:
I've never read the book myself but read a brief synopsis of it, which sounds like the sex part she didn't approve of was found at the end of the book mainly.
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  • "Specifically commented" and "she said" do not indicate your, the third party teller of the story, having made an inference. "Sounds like" indicates you, the reteller of events, have made an inference based on something.
That notwithstanding, I don't really care whether her objection derived from the sex bits for either way, the sex bits and her conception of their fitness for her son has nothing to do with whether I would or have moved to have a book removed from a required reading list. Moreover, my doing so or not doing so makes her doing so neither more nor less legitimate, and vice versa.



Other:
A mother said she went to the school to talk to them about removing a book her son had to read, Slaughterhouse Five, from the required reading list due to the content within the book....I've never read the book myself but read a brief synopsis of it, which sounds like the sex part she didn't approve of was found at the end of the book mainly.
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She noted he was within the last 10 pages of the book.
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This story is becoming less and less coherent, or the woman is every bit the idiot portrayed by your depiction of her deeds and words. Who in her right mind would ask a school's teacher/administrator that a book be removed from only her child's required reading texts when the child has all but finished reading the book?
  • It's not as though the teacher is going to not-teach the lessons planned in association with the book.
  • The child has already read the ostensibly offending passages. It's not as though he can un-read them.
 
I was assigned Slaughterhouse Five in Grade 12 English, 5 years ago. I see no problems with it, if the parent cares about the mention of sex, they are missing the ****ing point.
 
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Xelor said:
Is there some reason you chose to respond only to the most ancillary element of my reply to your central question?

You wrote in your OP:

What that woman thinks or said, or what you or others think or say on the matter, has nothing to do with whether I would or have pushed "to get a book removed from the required reading list for its content." You asked the question; I answered it, explaining why as well.


Red:
Well, insofar as that's what the woman said, why did you in your OP describe your comprehension of her objection as:

  • "Specifically commented" and "she said" do not indicate your, the third party teller of the story, having made an inference. "Sounds like" indicates you, the reteller of events, have made an inference based on something.
That notwithstanding, I don't really care whether her objection derived from the sex bits for either way, the sex bits and her conception of their fitness for her son has nothing to do with whether I would or have moved to have a book removed from a required reading list. Moreover, my doing so or not doing so makes her doing so neither more nor less legitimate, and vice versa.



Other:


This story is becoming less and less coherent, or the woman is every bit the idiot portrayed by your depiction of her deeds and words. Who in her right mind would ask a school's teacher/administrator that a book be removed from only her child's required reading texts when the child has all but finished reading the book?
  • It's not as though the teacher is going to not-teach the lessons planned in association with the book.
  • The child has already read the ostensibly offending passages. It's not as though he can un-read them.
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You read that sentence wrong. Keep reading to the end. Emphasis was on that it sounded like the sex part/the part she had an issue with which involved sex, was found at the end of the book. The thing in question was where that particular part was found (which is something I'm not sure of, having not read it), not whether her issue was the sex part.
 
Amelia said:
All I know is that for the n-word, it's up to the parents to decide when and how their children learn about it. It should not be the government's decision. Oh, of course many will learn about it on the street, but that's a different matter. Children should feel safe at school. The lone black child in some barely segregated area shouldn't be subjected to feeling put on the spot when all eyes turning his way when the n-word gets read aloud in class.

And since I want to give parents latitude to object if schools require their children to sit still and take it as the n-word is read and discussed in class, I allow other parents similar latitude for other subjects they object to.

If schools show that they will be open-minded and accommodating, maybe the parents and children will decide that it really is a safe environment for those discussions. But if it is condescendingly forced, then that is a problem. And tax payers should not be given "accept it or leave the school" as their only options.


I'm not going to change my mind on this.
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It is not being hurled at the child or most likely not even read out loud (it is story time in Kindergarten anymore) but even if it is they will just say "n-word", it is being discussed in an educational context. Discussion of slurs, hate, and racism are valuable topics in English class.
 
roguenuke said:
Okay, so this question comes about from a post I read in a private group on Facebook. A mother said she went to the school to talk to them about removing a book her son had to read, Slaughterhouse Five, from the required reading list due to the content within the book. I've never read the book myself but read a brief synopsis of it, which sounds like the sex part she didn't approve of was found at the end of the book mainly.

So, my question is have you or would you push to get a book removed from the required reading list for its content? Mind you, this is not saying that the book would be banned from the school, not allowed to be read by students, only that it could not be required reading.

Now, personally, not only would I say no I have not nor would I do this, I would strongly voice my opinion on how wrong such a thing is to be done for the feelings of even a few parents. So long as the book can be shown to have good, relevant content for the class/grade the student is required to read it for, I don't think parents should be making such decisions. Anyone could be offended by any book, especially the best ones.
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Anyone dumb enough to go for liberal arts is going to have to be familiar with the crap the SJWs are touting in order to get by.
 
LowDown said:
Anyone dumb enough to go for liberal arts is going to have to be familiar with the crap the SJWs are touting in order to get by.
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This has nothing to do with liberal arts (which is in college, not high school), nor SJWs.
 
roguenuke said:
You read that sentence wrong. Keep reading to the end. Emphasis was on that it sounded like the sex part/the part she had an issue with which involved sex, was found at the end of the book. The thing in question was where that particular part was found (which is something I'm not sure of, having not read it), not whether her issue was the sex part.
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  1. Sex makes appearances at a variety of places in the book; however, nowhere is it the focus of the story. It's just something that happens.
  2. I suggested you review the Sparknotes on the book if you aren't of a mind to read the book. (It's not a long book....)
  3. Where the sex passages appear isn't in question, and where they do, they aren't "adult entertainment," or even "Erica Jong" grade in their, well, sexiness. Hell, they don't even rise to the level of a romance novel.
  4. I have no idea why the woman took issue with either of the two "hard-on" passages:
    • The porter woke him up when the train reached Ilium. Billy staggered off with his
      duffel bag, and then he stood on the station platform next to the porter, trying to wake up.

      'Have a good nap, did you?' said the porter.

      'Yes,' said Billy.

      'Man,' said the porter, 'you sure had a hard-on.’
    • The bookstore was run by seeming quintuplets, by five short, bald men chewing unfit
      cigars that were sopping wet. They never smiled, and each one had a stool to perch on.
      They were making money running a paper-and-celluloid whorehouse.

      They didn’t have hard-ons. Neither did Billy Pilgrim. Everybody else did. It was a
      ridiculous store, all about love and babies.

Why have you entreated for a general discussion about school textbook banning yet you haven't even read the book that inspired the topic in your mind and that you've used as part of your discussion rubric?
 
Xelor said:
  1. Sex makes appearances at a variety of places in the book; however, nowhere is it the focus of the story. It's just something that happens.
  2. I suggested you review the Sparknotes on the book if you aren't of a mind to read the book. (It's not a long book....)
  3. Where the sex passages appear isn't in question, and where they do, they aren't "adult entertainment," or even "Erica Jong" grade in their, well, sexiness. Hell, they don't even rise to the level of a romance novel.
  4. I have no idea why the woman took issue with either of the two "hard-on" passages:
    • The porter woke him up when the train reached Ilium. Billy staggered off with his
      duffel bag, and then he stood on the station platform next to the porter, trying to wake up.

      'Have a good nap, did you?' said the porter.

      'Yes,' said Billy.

      'Man,' said the porter, 'you sure had a hard-on.’
    • The bookstore was run by seeming quintuplets, by five short, bald men chewing unfit
      cigars that were sopping wet. They never smiled, and each one had a stool to perch on.
      They were making money running a paper-and-celluloid whorehouse.

      They didn’t have hard-ons. Neither did Billy Pilgrim. Everybody else did. It was a
      ridiculous store, all about love and babies.

Why have you entreated for a general discussion about school textbook banning yet you haven't even read the book that inspired the topic in your mind and that you've used as part of your discussion rubric?
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You do understand that I am not the person that suggested the book should be removed from the required reading list (not banned, which I specifically noted in the OP), but mentioned it because I found the notion to be messed up and a missed opportunity to have a discussion about sex?

But beyond that, I think it is still an interesting topic to discuss even if I haven't actually read the book that the discussion was originally based off of. I know enough about the book to realize that it cannot be that big of a deal, even if people have been offended by it before this particular person was (most for other reasons than hers). Just as people are usually offended by Fahrenheit 451 for reasons other than "they were burning the Bible".

I absolutely agree that it was ridiculous that she was only complaining about the book after her son was practically done with it. She even did mention that the school does offer alternatives, but then that the teacher never mentioned this. To me though, you should be aware of what your kids are being required to do for school, particularly as part of a summer reading program, and especially if you even suspect that you may be offended by what they are required to read. It is even more ridiculous that she attempted to get the book removed from the required reading list altogether, rather than simply keeping it a complaint about her/her son individually. It makes it a lot worse, imo.
 
roguenuke said:
Why not? It seems to be a story about a journey of a man's life which includes some history (and discussion about the implications and consequences of events within history), a look into the changing dynamics of characters and their philosophies on life in relation to the experiences they go through, and learning to look at things from other POVs. (Mind you, I haven't read this book but have read a synopsis on it that leads me to these conclusions. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

Most schools have highly varied required reading lists, many having at least 2 such lists for each grade, one for regular classrooms and another for Honors/AP classes. I had to read Billy Budd and something else (just can't remember) my freshman summer, and Night and All's Quiet on the Western Front (which I hated, so boring and hard to get into) my sophomore summer. We read lots of other books/stories during the year that were required though. The novels I read in my Senior year were mainly chosen by me but had to be written about within a major paper. I've seen reading lists with mainly newer books, no classics, some with all classics, no new novels, and a mix of the two (most common).
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Its just that I think Slaughterhouse 5 might be more for adults- its got an unreliable narrator, there's frequent time jumps back and forth, and it would confuse a lot of kids reading it I think. Unless the school district made a condensed version or something.

Oh yeah, I forgot about All Quiet on the Western Front, read that when I was a soph too. I liked it, though as you said it was slow. I hated the movie they showed in class though, which was the old B&W one lol.
 
PoS said:
Its just that I think Slaughterhouse 5 might be more for adults- its got an unreliable narrator, there's frequent time jumps back and forth, and it would confuse a lot of kids reading it I think. Unless the school district made a condensed version or something.

Oh yeah, I forgot about All Quiet on the Western Front, read that when I was a soph too. I liked it, though as you said it was slow. I hated the movie they showed in class though, which was the old B&W one lol.
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I can see that as being a valid assessment of why a book may not be suitable for at least some or most high school students (Honors or AP courses may be appropriate for the challenge though).

Still didn't care for All's Quiet, and we watched to movie too, but it was in a History class that same year rather than the English class (mostly the same students in both). I loved Night though.
 
roguenuke said:
You do understand that I am not the person that suggested the book should be removed from the required reading list (not banned, which I specifically noted in the OP), but mentioned it because I found the notion to be messed up and a missed opportunity to have a discussion about sex?

But beyond that, I think it is still an interesting topic to discuss even if I haven't actually read the book that the discussion was originally based off of. I know enough about the book to realize that it cannot be that big of a deal, even if people have been offended by it before this particular person was (most for other reasons than hers). Just as people are usually offended by Fahrenheit 451 for reasons other than "they were burning the Bible".

I absolutely agree that it was ridiculous that she was only complaining about the book after her son was practically done with it. She even did mention that the school does offer alternatives, but then that the teacher never mentioned this. To me though, you should be aware of what your kids are being required to do for school, particularly as part of a summer reading program, and especially if you even suspect that you may be offended by what they are required to read. It is even more ridiculous that she attempted to get the book removed from the required reading list altogether, rather than simply keeping it a complaint about her/her son individually. It makes it a lot worse, imo.
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Red:
Yes.

Teal + red:
Holy "Outta Left Field!"

Wait a minute. What? Did you create this thread to mainly entreat for conversation about parental discussions of sex with their kids?

What in your OP so much as alludes to your purpose for having mentioned anything about (1) the "sexy" parts of the book, and (2) the woman's objection to her son's reading it, derived from your perception of the woman having "messed up and a missed opportunity to have a discussion about sex?"

Blue:
I too think it an interesting topic. My thinking so is why I expounded on why I wouldn't and have raised an objection to the books on a school's (my kids, of course) reading list. That, the "censoring" of literature, part of my original post happens also to be the part to which you didn't respond, yet my offhand remark about the woman is what you responded to.

Tan:
That the mother noted that her son's teacher never mentioned the availability of alternatives is odd:
  • During the summer, teachers aren't generally available to be chatted with, in their professional/specific job capacity as teachers, by students or parents. One wouldn't expect a teacher to have such a conversation about summer reading.
  • Summer reading lists are generally just that. They typically offer a host of options.
  • What sort of "nitwit" (?)/oblivious (?) parent is that woman? JFC!
    • A "required" text isn't optional. Either SH5 is or is not a required text.
    • She hasn't a clue that as goes non-required texts (reading multiple books is required, but one or more of them are of the student's choice from a list the school provides) the summer reading list is loaded with options.
    • Yet presumably, she went into a "tizzy" and somehow "she went to the school to talk to them about removing a book her son had to read" actually found and contacted her son's (asst) principal/teacher/(asst) department head (Lord only knows which group of them) during the summer.
    • She did that after the boy had, for all intents and purposes, finished reading the book.
Do you realize how preposterous this woman/story is getting with each new revelation you offer?

Pink:
Yes.
 
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