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Trump order seeks to limit federal role in K-12 education

Posting a pie chart does not change the fact that 2016 the budget for the Dept of Education was about 68 billion. Local control is much better than edicts from Washington, DC.
Glad to hear about the executive order that aims to reduce the federal government’s role in K-12. education.

So, your position is a weaker DOE strengthens state education?

Also, just look at total spending and you'll see the figure is.. 6%. Shocking, I know.
 
Public education has been around since the early 1800's. DOE since 1967. We got along just fine without federal interference in education for 150 years. Some would say far better.

Really? Because my grandfather went to a one room school, dropped out in the third grade, and never learned to read. As did many of his friends in Rural TN. Then the Federal Government got involved and his children got to enjoy an actual school, with trained teachers, and they couldn't just stop going.

But who cares about areas in rural red states, am I right?
 
Really? Because my grandfather went to a one room school, dropped out in the third grade, and never learned to read. As did many of his friends in Rural TN. Then the Federal Government got involved and his children got to enjoy an actual school, with trained teachers, and they couldn't just stop going.

But who cares about areas in rural red states, am I right?

My mother taught in a one room school in rural Nebraska. A public one room school. Some kids dropped out. Others went on to high school and a few to college. Public college.

Your grandfather dropping out had nothing to do with the public school system. It had to do with being needed on the farm.
 
My mother taught in a one room school in rural Nebraska. A public one room school. Some kids dropped out. Others went on to high school and a few to college. Public college.

Your grandfather dropping out had nothing to do with the public school system. It had to do with being needed on the farm.

He didn't live on a farm. His father worked in a quarry as the guy who set up the explosives. He just didn't have to go, so he didn't. It was one of the greatest regrets of his life, and when he retired from the steel mill, he went to work for our local high school as a custodian to make sure his family didn't drop out like him.

Hate it or not, the creation of the Dept. of Edu forced many states to overhaul their education system and prevent stories like my grandfather's. You wanna talk about scaling it back? Sure. You want to talk about redesigning the system? Sure. But let's cut the bull**** that things were better before it's existence.
 
He didn't live on a farm. His father worked in a quarry as the guy who set up the explosives. He just didn't have to go, so he didn't. It was one of the greatest regrets of his life, and when he retired from the steel mill, he went to work for our local high school as a custodian to make sure his family didn't drop out like him.

Hate it or not, the creation of the Dept. of Edu forced many states to overhaul their education system and prevent stories like my grandfather's. You wanna talk about scaling it back? Sure. You want to talk about redesigning the system? Sure. But let's cut the bull**** that things were better before it's existence.

So your grandfather made a choice. The education was there. Availing yourself of the opportunity is a personal choice. I fail to see how anything approaching DOE intervention would have changed your family situation.

Your grandfather, however, did that on his own.
 
I will say this, if it were another administration, I would support something like this. But, I just don't trust Trump's or Devos motivations. They do not have the public's best interest at heart when it comes to education. And while the idea may be a good one, I highly, highly doubt their execution of said idea will be kosher.

We don't need to spend the amount we do on education. We don't need the Dept of Edu to mandate curriculum. I would be happy if it's role was just in preventing student rights violations, investigating fraud, and establishing regulations that ensure every student has access to education.

One of my biggest problems with the education system, is how much money we throw at it blindly. Every single textbook written today, is recycled info found for free on the internet. They change the wording every year and lobby to have their books bought every year at 200+ a pop. Politicians accept the bribe, direct funds at purchasing books, and then campaign on what they've done for education. Which is spend money on something we don't necessarily need.

Another problem I have, is that schools are designed for a hundred years ago when the majority of the middle class would be going to work in a factory. Everyone sit in rows, raise your hand, meet these standards of production. Even the grading system is designed to condition us towards factory work and stifle creativity. Create worker drones in other words. And that was fine 100 years ago. They were training people to succeed. Now not so much.

We need to redesign the curriculum from the ground up. As well as how we administer the curriculum. And even how we build the schools and train teachers. We are not preparing our youth for the world they face when they graduate. We are preparing them for the world their grandparents and great grand parents faced. And that is a travesty that will come back to bite us in the ass. Already has, my own generation struggled and is struggling. I graduated in 2004, went to college, got a degree. Was told that's what I had to do to succeed. And was immediately kicked in the goddamn teeth by reality. I ended up doing ok, but I coud've done better if I was actually prepared for the modern world.
 
I didn't say that either, now did I?

I get that you are attempting to make a point that since George Washington's kids had a tutor 200 years ago, the feds should be involved in education today.

I'll not assist you in making that point.

No, the point is the Constitution isn't a good guiding document for education, since it was written in times when people were taught by for hire governesses.

So, the Constitution soapbox is irrelevant to this conversation, since the Federal government is already involved in many, many different endeavors that are not outlined in the Enumerated Powers. In order for that point about the Constitution to have any consistency, you'd have to argue for abolishing all of the bureaucracy that has threaded the needle through the elastic clause.

The point is we live in different times now. We have a DOE. I'd like to see the DOE have more than 6% funding in discretionary spending, but, conservatives in this thread indicate, that 6% is already far too much. And that they believe education is a reserved power. Well, that's a fair argument to make, as long as, action to weaken the DOE isn't merely cover for disadvantaging our public school system, so that fat cat GOP donors who own charter schools, like the Devos' can prey on them.
 
No, the point is the Constitution isn't a good guiding document for education, since it was written in times when people were taught by for hire governesses.

So, the Constitution soapbox is irrelevant to this conversation, since the Federal government is already involved in many, many different endeavors that are not outlined in the Enumerated Powers. In order for that point about the Constitution to have any consistency, you'd have to argue for abolishing all of the bureaucracy that has threaded the needle through the elastic clause.

The point is we live in different times now. We have a DOE. I'd like to see the DOE have more than 6% funding in discretionary spending, but, conservatives in this thread indicate, that 6% is already far too much. And that they believe education is a reserved power. Well, that's a fair argument to make, as long as, action to weaken the DOE isn't merely cover for disadvantaging our public school system, so that fat cat GOP donors who own charter schools, like the Devos' can prey on them.

Education is not a reserved power.
 
Education is not a reserved power.

might want to walk that back a little bit, otherwise you're gonna humiliate conservatives by being wrong about the Constitution in front of a liberal.
 
might want to walk that back a little bit, otherwise you're gonna humiliate conservatives by being wrong about the Constitution in front of a liberal.

Don't think so.

Explain?
 
Don't think so.

Explain?

Well, education isn't in the enumerated powers so, it's a power reserved to the states.

Moving at the Speed of Creativity | Federal or State Responsibility for Education and Inequitable Education Funding Formulas

As I understand it, the DOE and much of the bureaucracy has legitimacy through the elastic clause. So, I'm not arguing to abolish the DOE. But, it seems like judicial restraint would maintain it is a reserved power.


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IMO, the FedGov is all too invasive in our private affairs. Indoctrinating our children isn't in the Constitution.

Indoctrination of our children should be left to the states.

;)
 
This is good news. Maybe Civics 101 an introduction into Federalism will find its way back into classrooms.

Here's hoping a push for vocational schools will be part of the finding where students not intending to go to college can have an opportunity to earn a HS diploma and learn a trade. Plumbing, electrical, graphics designer, writing apps, programs, business management, dental hygienists, cosmetology, barbers, auto mechanics, welding etc. The local businesses work with the vocational schools to have students (seniors) a couple days a week to experience on the job training that often turn into jobs for them upon certification and graduation Many of these career choices require certification by the state and they have to pass the test to be certified in order to meet requirements for graduation. We have a good vocational school program in our district. I would like to see the same offered across the country. These trades are things we all rely on.

My hope is the bar for entrance into colleges that has been artificially lowered in recent years the standards will be raised once again with the federal government influence removed.

My hope is more schools across this country will offer a good liberal arts education that teaches children how to be critical thinkers.
 
So your grandfather made a choice. The education was there. Availing yourself of the opportunity is a personal choice. I fail to see how anything approaching DOE intervention would have changed your family situation.

Your grandfather, however, did that on his own.

A personal choice he made in the third grade. One that third graders can't make today because of the Dept of Edu. Where you able to make valid life altering decisions in the third grade? And even if he had not dropped out. He would have spent every year in that same classroom til he graduated Highschool. Being taught by someone who learned everything they know from that same classroom.

Who knows what kind career he could have had with a proper education. I do know he was a very racist man, and two of his four children less so because of the federal government ending segregation in schools. Having actual interactions on a regular basis with black people for the first time, dispelled many of the myths they were taught. Unfortunately my mother was one of his older children and didn't enjoy that benefit. Having graduated before any black people moved to the area.
 
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump signed an executive order Wednesday that aims to reduce the federal government’s role in K-12 education.

Trump is giving Education Secretary Betsy DeVos just short of a year — 300 days — to identify areas where Washington has overstepped its legal authority in education, and modify and repeal regulations and guidance from her department, if necessary. A report will be returned to the White House and eventually made public, officials said.

Trump complained that the government over the years has forced states and schools to comply with ‘‘federal whims.’’ He said the order will help restore local control over education.

‘‘We know that local communities do it best and know it best,’’ Trump said, surrounded by governors, members of Congress and teachers. ‘‘The time has come to empower parents and teachers to make the decisions that help their students achieve success.’’

snip...

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/na...e-education/nW0zTL2AvwhE3ak3VWYuxO/story.html

:applaud

Well , we all know how the GOP loves the uneducated. Keep them stupid, keep them voting GOP.
 
So, your position is weaken the DOE because it strengthens education at a local level?

Let the states keep all the money except for what the Constitution says the FedGov may spend.
 
When the states ran the education systems for K-12 the United States ranked first in the word in science, math etc. Once the fed became involved, we've dropped to something like 28th and 32nd.

Right. Who's trying to keep America dumb?
 
Continuing to destroy the government from within. Great, no federal standards, now the southern states can teach revisionist history, conservative propaganda and creationism. Keep America Dump so they vote for POS like me again
 
You'd prefer the FedGov to decide what's best for your children?

I have no issues with education standards being applied across the board.
 
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