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Will tenure save prof who bashed Barbara Bush?

gdgyva said:
everyone is entitled to their views

everyone is entitled to voice their opinions

what everyone is NOT entitled to do is shed a bad light on their employer while doing so

i am a director in a large company...and i signed documents saying as much as i onboarded

i met with the owner/ceo/board...and we discussed what was and not allowable

things that i already knew were common sense...but it was gone over anyway

some employees have a "bigger" influence in social media, and if something were to hit, it would be a devastating to the company

she may have the ability to freely express her ideals....i hope the university also understands it has not only the ability but the responsibility to show the world how they see things also
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Obviously you are in the group who do not want to focus on what actually is important to U.S. as a government with a system of laws and as a society. What is the merit of this critic's claims?
Was Barbara Bush's son a war criminal? Is a POTUS who lies his country into a pre-emptive war, a war criminal?

This is the admission by Barbara's son when this question was answered.:
https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2006/09/text/20060915-2.html
Sept. 15, 2006

......MARTHA (Radditz): Mr. President, you have said throughout the war in Iraq and building up to the war in Iraq that there was a relationship between Saddam Hussein and Zarqawi and al Qaeda.
A Senate Intelligence Committee report a few weeks ago said there was no link, no relationship, and that the CIA knew this and issued a report last fall. And yet a month ago, you were still saying there was a relationship. Why did you keep saying that?
Why do you continue to say that? And do you still believe that?

BUSH: The point I was making to Ken Herman’s question was that Saddam Hussein was a state sponsor of terror,
and that Mr. Zarqawi was in Iraq
. He had been wounded in Afghanistan, had come to Iraq for treatment. He had ordered the killing of a U.S. citizen in Jordan.
I never said there was an operational relationship.....
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Page cannot be found.
News from Senator Carl Levin of Michigan
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
September 8, 2006

The President says Saddam had a relationship with Zarqawi.
The Senate Intelligence Committee found that the CIA concluded in 2005 that “the regime did not have a relationship with, harbor, or turn a blind eye toward Zarqawi.”
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For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
September 28, 2002

Radio Address by the President to the Nation

.....The danger to our country is grave and it is growing. The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons, is rebuilding the facilities to make more and, according to the British government, could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes after the order is given.
The regime has long-standing and continuing ties to terrorist groups, and there are al Qaeda terrorists inside Iraq..
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post said:
Obviously you are in the group who do not want to focus on what actually is important to U.S. as a government with a system of laws and as a society. What is the merit of this critic's claims?
Was Barbara Bush's son a war criminal? Is a POTUS who lies his country into a pre-emptive war, a war criminal?

This is the admission by Barbara's son when this question was answered.:
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Obviously you are in the group who do not want to focus on what actually is the point of this thread.

BTW - No, not a war criminal.
 
Vid clips have appeared in which she calls farmers "stupid" and advocates for violence against "Spencer's house," presumably white nationalist Richard Spencer's. From the Fresno Bee:

Jarrar's comments in the videos are sometimes received with laughter or applause, but in other instances — like during a speech at Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis — people walk out in protest, something Jarrar seems used to.

"I'm so proud when people walk out of my talks," she says in the video.

She also shouts an eyebrow-raising goodbye at the people leaving the room.

"Sorry, guys," she says. "Your kids masturbate."

Fresno State professor Randa Jarrar | excerpts from talks | The Fresno Bee

What a charmer.

I'm not going to link this, but in the article at Buzzfeed entitled "How Being a Bad Muslim Helped Me Get Out of a Bad Marriage," Jarrar writes of "popping my infidelity cherry." I think she fancies herself an enfant terrible, but she's just another a foul-mouthed and pathetic shock-jock. Too bad; she writes well.
 
nota bene said:
Somebody always has to be an ass. An hour after the announcement was made of Barbara Bush's passing, a Fresno State prof just had to bash her on Twitter, calling her a racist who reared a war criminal and expressing delight at her death and the hope that the rest of her family would soon follow her. When folks protested, she gloated that she would never be fired because she has tenure. Fresno State may disagree. Here is its president's statement:

On behalf of Fresno State, I extend my deepest condolences tothe Bush family on the loss of our former First Lady, Barbara Bush. We sharethe deep concerns expressed by others over the personal comments made today byProfessor Randa Jarrar, a professor in the English Department at Fresno State.Her statements were made as a private citizen, not as a representative ofFresno State. Professor Jarrar's expressed personal views and commentary areobviously contrary to the core values of our University, which include respectand empathy for individuals with divergent points of view, and a sincerecommitment to mutual understanding and progress. Fresno State Responds After Professor Calls Barbara Bush 'Amazing Racist,' Says 'I Will Never Be Fired'

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I think it's hypocritical of conservatives to be attacking her and trying to get her fired. If this were happening to a conservative, they'd be calling it a violation of free speech.
 
SheWolf said:
I think it's hypocritical of conservatives to be attacking her and trying to get her fired. If this were happening to a conservative, they'd be calling it a violation of free speech.
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Actually, I talked to my very progressive little sister this morning, and she told me she hoped Jarrar was fired, and I strongly disagreed. :lol:
 
SheWolf said:
I think it's hypocritical of conservatives to be attacking her and trying to get her fired. If this were happening to a conservative, they'd be calling it a violation of free speech.
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I hope she's arrested for giving out a help-center call line on purpose, resulting in usurping resources for people who need it.
But, yeah, if conservatives played the same game the leftists do, they'd throw tantrums on Twitter and call for boycotts and organize marches on campus.
Have you seen any of that??
 
nota bene said:
Actually, I talked to my very progressive little sister this morning, and she told me she hoped Jarrar was fired, and I strongly disagreed. :lol:
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Agree with you. We're not petty, vengeful and most of all, we support our Constitution.

That said, if Jarrar's employer thinks it's a fireable offense, I wouldn't try to change their mind. But, they won't.

Because, the Left are hypocrites.
 
And to think kids go asshole deep in debt with student loans to be taught by trash like her.
 
nota bene said:
Somebody always has to be an ass. An hour after the announcement was made of Barbara Bush's passing, a Fresno State prof just had to bash her on Twitter, calling her a racist who reared a war criminal and expressing delight at her death and the hope that the rest of her family would soon follow her. When folks protested, she gloated that she would never be fired because she has tenure. Fresno State may disagree. Here is its president's statement:

On behalf of Fresno State, I extend my deepest condolences tothe Bush family on the loss of our former First Lady, Barbara Bush. We sharethe deep concerns expressed by others over the personal comments made today byProfessor Randa Jarrar, a professor in the English Department at Fresno State.Her statements were made as a private citizen, not as a representative ofFresno State. Professor Jarrar's expressed personal views and commentary areobviously contrary to the core values of our University, which include respectand empathy for individuals with divergent points of view, and a sincerecommitment to mutual understanding and progress. Fresno State Responds After Professor Calls Barbara Bush 'Amazing Racist,' Says 'I Will Never Be Fired'

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As hateful as the professor's statement was--and I hope she is fired because nobody like that should be teaching anything--I do hope everybody leaves it as a matter between her and them. We can all say what we think about it, but I don't want any organized effort demanding that she be fired.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Although I find her comments disgusting, I doubt she will be fired as a tenured professor.

Perhaps Twitter will suspend/terminate her account.
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I'm hearing several Fresno State benefactors are threatening to end their support.
 
Floridafan said:
What happened to a persons right to freedom of speech?
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She's free to say whatever she wants - others are free to respond however they want.
 
nota bene said:
Somebody always has to be an ass. An hour after the announcement was made of Barbara Bush's passing, a Fresno State prof just had to bash her on Twitter, calling her a racist who reared a war criminal and expressing delight at her death and the hope that the rest of her family would soon follow her. When folks protested, she gloated that she would never be fired because she has tenure. Fresno State may disagree. Here is its president's statement:

On behalf of Fresno State, I extend my deepest condolences tothe Bush family on the loss of our former First Lady, Barbara Bush. We sharethe deep concerns expressed by others over the personal comments made today byProfessor Randa Jarrar, a professor in the English Department at Fresno State.Her statements were made as a private citizen, not as a representative ofFresno State. Professor Jarrar's expressed personal views and commentary areobviously contrary to the core values of our University, which include respectand empathy for individuals with divergent points of view, and a sincerecommitment to mutual understanding and progress. Fresno State Responds After Professor Calls Barbara Bush 'Amazing Racist,' Says 'I Will Never Be Fired'

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It's sad that she did that, but (now, don't judge me because of my observations) I've noticed that big (really big) women can be awfully rude, more so than thinner women. I don't know what their problem is, perhaps they're angry at society for valuing thinness and beauty -- that's just a guess -- but I see it all the time. They trash anyone that doesn't agree with them. Not all of them, obviously, but I've been known to turn around in a grocery store aisle if a super big woman is approaching from the other end. I've been asked to retrieve items for them (high or low) and not in a pleasant manner, but rather as though I owe them something for not being fat.

Anyway, I digress, but when I saw her photo, I wasn't surprised at all.

I wouldn't fire her, but I'd let her know that what she said was unacceptable.
 
HowardBThiname said:
It's sad that she did that, but (now, don't judge me because of my observations) I've noticed that big (really big) women can be awfully rude, more so than thinner women. I don't know what their problem is, perhaps they're angry at society for valuing thinness and beauty -- that's just a guess -- but I see it all the time. They trash anyone that doesn't agree with them. Not all of them, obviously, but I've been known to turn around in a grocery store aisle if a super big woman is approaching from the other end. I've been asked to retrieve items for them (high or low) and not in a pleasant manner, but rather as though I owe them something for not being fat.

Anyway, I digress, but when I saw her photo, I wasn't surprised at all.

I wouldn't fire her, but I'd let her know that what she said was unacceptable.
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Pushy, obnoxious, foul-mouthed women come in all sizes. ;)

Everything depends on what's in Jarrar's contract. But there is no doubt she has embarrassed her institution and threatened it financially. Donors are bringing pressure to bear, and I can't imagine her not facing a trip to the woodshed at least. But who knows?
 
If Fresno State's administration is of a mind to do anything, it's likely that it'd take an "out counseling" approach rather than dismissing the professor.

​
nota bene said:
On behalf of Fresno State, I extend my deepest condolences to the Bush family on the loss of our former First Lady, Barbara Bush. We share the deep concerns expressed by others over the personal comments made today by Professor Randa Jarrar, a professor in the English Department at Fresno State.Her statements were made as a private citizen, not as a representative of Fresno State. Professor Jarrar's expressed personal views and commentary are obviously contrary to the core values of our University, which include respect and empathy for individuals with divergent points of view, and a sincere commitment to mutual understanding and progress.
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I won't pretend -- there's a whole lot of "so what?" going through my mind as goes the professor's remarks and the school itself.

Dr. Jarrar's remarks were made as a private citizen, on Twitter. Accordingly, the considerations that strike me as germane to determining how to handle the fact of her making them must consider several factors:
  • How well know is the woman?
  • What is the foreseeable impact the remark can have on her delivery of English instruction?
  • What actual or foreseeable impact has/will her remark have on her ability to attract research funding?
  • One cannot defame or libel the dead.
  • Is her remark having a measurably material impact on the university? (That is, is it doing anything other than generating talk?)
  • The times -- We live in a world wherein a POTUS disparages private citizens of no particular stature whom he is duty bound to represent.
  • Fresno State's status as a state institution -- While the 1st Amendment does not apply to private organization, it does apply to governments; thus tenure or not, taking retributive action against Jarrar could easily become a major legal matter that the school would surely lose.

Frankly, I'm amazed that a "random" English professor -- she's not the department chair, she doesn't have an endowed chair, and she teaches fiction in the graduate MFA program, and prior to the tweet, she was on leave -- at a nondescript institution attracted the attention of Newsweek​. What on Earth made that happen is beyond me. I would understand were it Tribe, Albright, Gates, Ayers, Chomsky, or another professor who's very well known. Jarrar is accomplished enough, but so are a millions of professionals like her whom "nobody" knows. Hell, when does Fresno State come to mind in any broad spectrum discussion about higher education? Until now, while I suppose I've heard of the school, I'm sure I've never uttered the school's name. Assuming you're not a Californian or someone who applied there (or have kids who did), have you?

Be that as it may, there's no shortage of controversial professors who've said (or been reputed to have said) all sorts of things, and in their positions they stay. I cannot imagine the school doing anything other than disabusing itself of any perceived approbation of her remark.
 
Xelor said:
If Fresno State's administration is of a mind to do anything, it's likely that it'd take an "out counseling" approach rather than dismissing the professor.

​

I won't pretend -- there's a whole lot of "so what?" going through my mind as goes the professor's remarks and the school itself.

Dr. Jarrar's remarks were made as a private citizen, on Twitter. Accordingly, the considerations that strike me as germane to determining how to handle the fact of her making them must consider several factors:
  • How well know is the woman?
  • What is the foreseeable impact the remark can have on her delivery of English instruction?
  • What actual or foreseeable impact has/will her remark have on her ability to attract research funding?
  • One cannot defame or libel the dead.
  • Is her remark having a measurably material impact on the university? (That is, is it doing anything other than generating talk?)
  • The times -- We live in a world wherein a POTUS disparages private citizens of no particular stature whom he is duty bound to represent.
  • Fresno State's status as a state institution -- While the 1st Amendment does not apply to private organization, it does apply to governments; thus tenure or not, taking retributive action against Jarrar could easily become a major legal matter that the school would surely lose.

Frankly, I'm amazed that a "random" English professor -- she's not the department chair, she doesn't have an endowed chair, and she teaches fiction in the graduate MFA program, and prior to the tweet, she was on leave -- at a nondescript institution attracted the attention of Newsweek​. What on Earth made that happen is beyond me. I would understand were it Tribe, Albright, Gates, Ayers, Chomsky, or another professor who's very well known. Jarrar is accomplished enough, but so are a millions of professionals like her whom "nobody" knows. Hell, when does Fresno State come to mind in any broad spectrum discussion about higher education? Until now, while I suppose I've heard of the school, I'm sure I've never uttered the school's name. Assuming you're not a Californian or someone who applied there (or have kids who did), have you?

Be that as it may, there's no shortage of controversial professors who've said (or been reputed to have said) all sorts of things, and in their positions they stay. I cannot imagine the school doing anything other than disabusing itself of any perceived approbation of her remark.
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Just because you or I had never heard of Jarrar doesn’t mean that she wasn’t well known in her own petit-monde, and she is: Randa Jarrar

Jarrar may have been on sabbatical/whatever, but she brought her employer into her contemptible attention-whoring, and this caused Fresno State’s chief academic officer to respond publicly to Jarrar’s claim that because she had tenure, she couldn’t be fired. Fresno State responds after controversial tweet by professor regarding the death of Barbara Bush | abc30.com

The university has financial reason for concern; it’s benefactors are “re-evaluating” their support, and they will have to be mollified.

Because of FERPA constraints, we are unlikely to learn the particulars of any disciplinary measures Fresno State imposes. It will have to tread carefully between contractual obligations and academic freedom, and the Academy is definitely watching.

There is undoubtedly some wiggle clause in Farrar’s contract that Fresno State will be able to work with; as I’ve mentioned previously, it’s very often “…and other duties as assigned.”

I’m sick of the continual calls for people to be fired and agree with Friedersdorf here:

Typically, this would be the part in an article about a controversy of this sort where I would grant that critics of the speech in question are understandably upset; make it clear that I myself find the speech in question to be offensive; and explain why I nevertheless oppose targeting the speaker’s job for expressing it, whether in service of First Amendment rights or a culture of free expression.

Most of that holds in this case––I’m against punishing Jarrar, and in agreement with those who say that her behavior is grotesque, grotesque, immature, and embarrassing (even if I find it exceedingly easy to simply grimace and move on). https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...r-moral-grandstanding-and-forbearance/558635/

I support the First Amendment. Randa Farrar is a person to whom I would refuse an introduction. She is to be pitied, scorned, and shunned. But it’s enough that for the rest of her life, she will be known for this.
 
nota bene said:
The university has financial reason for concern; it’s benefactors are “re-evaluating” their support, and they will have to be mollified.
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I see nothing -- neither in the rubric article nor in the one to which you linked -- indicating that any benefactors are "'re-evaluating' their support." On what objective basis are you asserting that benefactors are "'re-evaluating' their support?"
 
From the Fresno Bee:

Ed Dunkel Jr., a second-generation engineering graduate from Fresno State and president of Precision Civil Engineering in Fresno, is taking a wait-and-see position. “But candidly, I have a lot of friends that I’ve been talking to, and these are people who donate now and talking about holding back, and some are even questioning whether to send their kids to Fresno State,” said Dunkel, who has been recognized for his financial contributions as a member of the university’s President’s Circle for Excellence.

“I admire and have a lot of respect for President (Joseph) Castro and huge affection for Fresno State,” Dunkel said. “But I have huge concerns. This represents such an embarrassment to the university and the community. It’s hard to believe this is an isolated thing that just happened. I have to imagine people previously knew of this person’s character and what she’s about.” Fresno State: Tweets make some donors waver, other stay firm | The Fresno Bee

https://nypost.com/2018/04/20/bush-bashing-professor-has-fresno-state-scrambling-to-keep-its-donors/

Fresno State could lose big donor money over leftist prof who cheered Barbara Bush death – USSA News | The Tea Party's Front Page
 
nota bene said:
Somebody always has to be an ass. An hour after the announcement was made of Barbara Bush's passing, a Fresno State prof just had to bash her on Twitter, calling her a racist who reared a war criminal and expressing delight at her death and the hope that the rest of her family would soon follow her. When folks protested, she gloated that she would never be fired because she has tenure. Fresno State may disagree. Here is its president's statement:

On behalf of Fresno State, I extend my deepest condolences tothe Bush family on the loss of our former First Lady, Barbara Bush. We sharethe deep concerns expressed by others over the personal comments made today byProfessor Randa Jarrar, a professor in the English Department at Fresno State.Her statements were made as a private citizen, not as a representative ofFresno State. Professor Jarrar's expressed personal views and commentary areobviously contrary to the core values of our University, which include respectand empathy for individuals with divergent points of view, and a sincerecommitment to mutual understanding and progress. Fresno State Responds After Professor Calls Barbara Bush 'Amazing Racist,' Says 'I Will Never Be Fired'

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It's not the only horrible thing she has ever said. I wouldn't care what she said, if she was working some other position besides educating impressionable youth. She obviously can't be trusted with that job so, so far as answering the question, I hope she gets fired.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Bolded mine.


Sounds cut and dried to me.
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Actually, she brings/brought up her position multiple times, so she wasn't just saying them on her own behalf.
 
nota bene said:
From the Fresno Bee:

Ed Dunkel Jr., a second-generation engineering graduate from Fresno State and president of Precision Civil Engineering in Fresno, is taking a wait-and-see position. “But candidly, I have a lot of friends that I’ve been talking to, and these are people who donate now and talking about holding back, and some are even questioning whether to send their kids to Fresno State,” said Dunkel, who has been recognized for his financial contributions as a member of the university’s President’s Circle for Excellence.

“I admire and have a lot of respect for President (Joseph) Castro and huge affection for Fresno State,” Dunkel said. “But I have huge concerns. This represents such an embarrassment to the university and the community. It’s hard to believe this is an isolated thing that just happened. I have to imagine people previously knew of this person’s character and what she’s about.” Fresno State: Tweets make some donors waver, other stay firm | The Fresno Bee

https://nypost.com/2018/04/20/bush-bashing-professor-has-fresno-state-scrambling-to-keep-its-donors/

Fresno State could lose big donor money over leftist prof who cheered Barbara Bush death – USSA News | The Tea Party's Front Page
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Well I wonder how he'll act now that Fresno State has decided a person like her is a worthy leader and teacher who needs not suffer discipline over her actions.
 
Renae said:
Well I wonder how he'll act now that Fresno State has decided a person like her is a worthy leader and teacher who needs not suffer discipline over her actions.
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From Slate:

In a statement released Tuesday, Fresno State President Joseph Castro confirmed that she was right [that she wouldn't be fired]. “Professor Jarrar’s conduct was insensitive, inappropriate and an embarrassment to the university,” he said. But he clarified: “[W]e have concluded that Professor Jarrar did not violate any CSU or university policies and that she was acting in a private capacity and speaking about a public matter on her personal Twitter account. Her comments, although disgraceful, are protected free speech under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.” https://slate.com/news-and-politics...a-jarrar-insulted-barbara-bush-not-fired.html
 
nota bene said:
Somebody always has to be an ass. An hour after the announcement was made of Barbara Bush's passing, a Fresno State prof just had to bash her on Twitter, calling her a racist who reared a war criminal and expressing delight at her death and the hope that the rest of her family would soon follow her. ...
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Freedom of speech means so little to most/many Americans. It's used mostly only as a grand propagandist ploy.

The prof failed to mention, or the poster did, that not only did BB raise a war criminal/terrorist son, she married and stayed married to a war criminal and a terrorist. And supported the both of them, father and son in their slaughter of innocents.

Oh, and these two war criminals/terrorists were also spectacular, world class liars. Good job, BB. I'm sure you are snug and warm, and in good company where you landed.
 
nota bene said:
From Slate:

In a statement released Tuesday, Fresno State President Joseph Castro confirmed that she was right [that she wouldn't be fired]. “Professor Jarrar’s conduct was insensitive, inappropriate and an embarrassment to the university,” he said. But he clarified: “[W]e have concluded that Professor Jarrar did not violate any CSU or university policies and that she was acting in a private capacity and speaking about a public matter on her personal Twitter account. Her comments, although disgraceful, are protected free speech under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.” https://slate.com/news-and-politics...a-jarrar-insulted-barbara-bush-not-fired.html
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Yes, I'm aware. It's good to know that the University feels people of low moral character and (the suicide hotline number hand out is egregious) judgement are fit to be professors in good standing.
 
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