Associate Degree vs. Bachelor Degree

xMathFanx · Mar 6, 2018

Is it wiser to pursue an Associate Degree program(s) rather than Bachelor Degree?

Lursa · Mar 6, 2018

xMathFanx said:
Is it wiser to pursue an Associate Degree program(s) rather than Bachelor Degree?

What field(s)?

xMathFanx · Mar 6, 2018

Lursa said:
What field(s)?

@Lursa

Consider, my local Community College costs only $1,500 per semester, and there are about 15 or so Associates Degrees (2 year programs) which will qualify a person for $40,000-$70,000 jobs--that is one hell of an input-output ratio compared to the 'traditional'/conformist advice given to the kids. Also, the credits apply equally in all areas, so once one gets an Associates Degree in one area, it is much easier/shorter route to get another in a related area. Then, a young adult could build up several such degrees while still very young (i.e. low twenties) at which point it would become nearly inconceivable they would not always have a solid paying job to fall back on for the rest of their lives--all without paying the absurd 4 year cost directly out of High School (btw, it is generally not '4 years' anymore, but often well more than 4). Furthermore, the A.S. degrees set up if they ever did want to pursue more advanced degrees, then they have a good chunk of the B.A./B.S. completed already without the first half cost; then, they could make that decision when they are closer to mid twenties range and actually able to think clearly about making such a significant life decision (of taking out a lot of money in loans for a B.A./B.S. and possibly higher i.e. M.A./M.S., PhD).

NeverTrump · Mar 6, 2018

xMathFanx said:
Is it wiser to pursue an Associate Degree program(s) rather than Bachelor Degree?

I have a Bachelor Degree right now but I just decided to go back to school next year for my masters after being out of school for five years working. I can't find a better paying job than what I have now with the degree I have. Plus I'm going in a slightly different direction from tech to media. So Masters is helpful.

radioman · Mar 6, 2018

xMathFanx said:
Is it wiser to pursue an Associate Degree program(s) rather than Bachelor Degree?

Does pursuit of one degree preclude the pursuit of the other?
If I remember correctly, the associates degrees are a 2 year program from a junior college.
Most, if not all of the AA credits are then transferred to a 4 year college as you pursue a BD.
Saves money.

EDIT: I see you alluded to the money saving aspect in your next post.

xMathFanx · Mar 6, 2018

NeverTrumpGOP said:
I have a Bachelor Degree right now but I just decided to go back to school next year for my masters after being out of school for five years working. I can't find a better paying job than what I have now with the degree I have. Plus I'm going in a slightly different direction from tech to media. So Masters is helpful.

Thanks for your input.

I will graduate this summer from Uni. with two Bachelors; though looking back, it would have been much wiser to get a couple practical Associate Degrees first to provide a strong safety net rather than the much, much larger investment in B.S./B.A. which, in-it-of-itself, doesn't really produce any higher salary then well selected A.S. degrees. Actually, I am considering picking up a few A.S. degrees quickly next year before moving on to Grad School, as the input-output ratio is so good and will help build up Job Market resume (as well as continued learning in general interest areas)

xMathFanx · Mar 6, 2018

radioman said:
Does pursuit of one degree preclude the pursuit of the other?
If I remember correctly, the associates degrees are a 2 year program from a junior college.
Most, if not all of the AA credits are then transferred to a 4 year college as you pursue a BD.
Saves money.

EDIT: I see you alluded to the money saving aspect in your next post.

Good question. No--I am more arguing that it is much wiser for young adults fresh out of High School to first get an AA/AS and wait until their mid-twenties to make such a huge life decision as taking out $60,000+ loans for a BA/BS and (possibly) beyond, if desired.

Note: Yes, a Associate Degree is a 2 year degree from a Community College or is often offered in connection with many Satellite Campuses to major Universities such as Penn State, for example

NeverTrump · Mar 6, 2018

xMathFanx said:
Thanks for your input.

I will graduate this summer from Uni. with two Bachelors; though looking back, it would have been much wiser to get a couple practical Associate Degrees first to provide a strong safety net rather than the much, much larger investment in B.S./B.A. which, in-it-of-itself, doesn't really produce any higher salary then well selected A.S. degrees. Actually, I am considering picking up a few A.S. degrees quickly next year before moving on to Grad School, as the input-output ratio is so good and will help build of Job Market resume (as well as continued learning in general interest areas)

Not really sure why you need a couple of A.S degrees. If you want to concentrate on something I am sure there are professional industry certificates you can get. In tech there's plenty from Microsoft etc... I'm getting a masters because I have no training in the software that the media companies use, and I need to learn about their operations/get connections. That's what a masters is for. It's like a job. With my salary, I'm already living like a graduate student anyway, so I figured why not just go for that. Maybe it will help me more in the long run.

Bachelors or Associates really don't help you with any of that. At least in my case. Those are just introductory courses to show a potential employer you can complete something. Of course, for me most people just wanted to hear about my Eagle Scout project and nothing about my crappy undergrad school. Not sure what you are studying so your scenario may be different.

Linc · Mar 6, 2018

NeverTrumpGOP said:
I have a Bachelor Degree right now but I just decided to go back to school next year for my masters after being out of school for five years working. I can't find a better paying job than what I have now with the degree I have. Plus I'm going in a slightly different direction from tech to media. So Masters is helpful.

AA degrees here in IL transfer in toto to 4-year colleges and universities.
I know a number of families that have gone this route for all of their HS graduates. Saves tens of thousands per kid.

Standards at CCs and JCs have been raised the last couple of decades, with PhDs in most subject areas now teaching major level classes.
Students normally still live at home, work part-time, and either get their act together or don't.

Many AA degrees are an end to a means, with the rest being a means to an end.
HS students are now able to get one through four semesters of CC; in High School.

Trade degrees specifically targeted to occupations with known growing fields and fields with openings are on the rise.
Talked with some trucker dudes today at lunch. It's still age 21. Floated mentoring and internships even with them.
Floated College kids trucking during the Summer and Vacation times. It's good money. Plenty of openings.
Good 2nd job during vacation from school when starting a teaching career, which doesn't pay well in the beginning ...

xMathFanx · Mar 6, 2018

NeverTrumpGOP said:
Not really sure why you need a couple of A.S degrees. If you want to concentrate on something I am sure there are professional industry certificates you can get. In tech there's plenty from Microsoft etc... I'm getting a masters because I have no training in the software that the media companies use, and I need to learn about their operations/get connections. That's what a masters is for. It's like a job. With my salary, I'm already living like a graduate student anyway, so I figured why not just go for that. Maybe it will help me more in the long run.

Bachelors or Associates really don't help you with any of that. At least in my case. Those are just introductory courses to show a potential employer you can complete something. Of course, for me most people just wanted to hear about my Eagle Scout project and nothing about my crappy undergrad school. Not sure what you are studying so your scenario may be different.

@NeverTrumpGOP

It depends on the specific areas one is studying/earned a degree in. For instance, my Bachelors will be in Mathematics and History. Now, for many students I know that are solely History majors, they will be worse off in the job market after graduation than a person who attained an associates in Engineering, Nursings, Radiology, Dental Hygiene, ect.--all of which average salaries are between $50,000-&75,000 per year, while the History major will struggle to find work for $40,000 (and will likely get a job in the $30,000-39,000 range).

Now, as for Mathematics, many Math majors actually will have the same success or even more difficulty in finding a job in the $50,000-75,000 range than if they went to Community College for a much, much less technically rigorous subject for a fraction of the years, and hardly even a fraction of the cost (that is, many Math majors take easily 5+ years to finish while paying full-time tuition, while the same person could (almost definitely) easily get an Associates in a number of areas in 1.5 years time--ultimately producing the same salary)

xMathFanx · Mar 6, 2018

NIMBY said:
Many AA degrees are an end to a means, with the rest being a means to an end.
HS students are now able to get one through four semesters of CC; in High School.

Trade degrees specifically targeted to occupations with known growing fields and fields with openings are on the rise.
Talked with some trucker dudes today at lunch. It's still age 21. Floated mentoring and internships even with them.
Floated College kids trucking during the Summer and Vacation times. It's good money. Plenty of openings.
Good 2nd job during vacation from school when starting a teaching career, which doesn't pay well in the beginning ...

Yes--you made two strong observations.

(1) Doing Community College in High School is an excellent route to take, as one can attain qualifications for a very solid income job by the time they graduate at age 18, as well as half-way into credit toward a Bachelors. Also, I believe the School District is required to pay for students who take this option, which means it can be attained for free

(2) Community Colleges offer a number of Trade degrees, certificates, and/or apprenticeships--all of which lead to very solid professions (and for very minimal cost)

NeverTrump · Mar 6, 2018

NIMBY said:
AA degrees here in IL transfer in toto to 4-year colleges and universities.
I know a number of families that have gone this route for all of their HS graduates. Saves tens of thousands per kid.

Standards at CCs and JCs have been raised the last couple of decades, with PhDs in most subject areas now teaching major level classes.
Students normally still live at home, work part-time, and either get their act together or don't.

Many AA degrees are an end to a means, with the rest being a means to an end.
HS students are now able to get one through four semesters of CC; in High School.

Trade degrees specifically targeted to occupations with known growing fields and fields with openings are on the rise.
Talked with some trucker dudes today at lunch. It's still age 21. Floated mentoring and internships even with them.
Floated College kids trucking during the Summer and Vacation times. It's good money. Plenty of openings.
Good 2nd job during vacation from school when starting a teaching career, which doesn't pay well in the beginning ...

That's true. I was lucky enough that my parents saved money for my undergrad, but they seem to be very supportive of me going back to school. Having bday dinner with them later today to discuss more long term plans for next year. (Maybe i'll have to move back with them.) Hopefully I'll only need to take out $25,000 or so in loans. Who knows I may get some scholarships/fellowships, but I know that's hard to come by for masters. What I'd love to do is do a PhD in Media Studies or communications. Therefore studying conspiracy theories and fake news as a specialty. I've been interested in the topic since I was 13 years old and I also wouldn't mind teaching a class or two on it.

There's also the lying factor. Colleges can trick kids that their degree will make you rich as soon as you get out. Fat chance.

NeverTrump · Mar 6, 2018

xMathFanx said:
@NeverTrumpGOP

It depends on the specific areas one is studying/earned a degree in. For instance, my Bachelors will be in Mathematics and History. Now, for many students I know that are solely History majors, they will be worse off in the job market after graduation than a person who attained an associates in Engineering, Nursings, Radiology, Dental Hygiene, ect.--all of which average salaries are between $50,000-&75,000 per year, while the History major will struggle to find work for $40,000 (and will likely get a job in the $30,000-39,000 range).

Now, as for Mathematics, many Math majors actually will have the same success or even more difficulty in finding a job in the $50,000-75,000 range than if they went to Community College for a much, much less technically rigorous subject for a fraction of the years, and hardly even a fraction of the cost (that is, many Math majors take easily 5+ years to finish while paying full-time tuition, while the same person could (almost definitely) easily get an Associates in a number of areas in 1.5 years time--ultimately producing the same salary)

Oh yeah. History and Math are very specialized jobs. You almost need a PhD to get anywhere in that circuit. I'd suggest specializing in big data or cryptocurrencies if you want to do math. I don't know what you can do with a History degree but if it's your passion go for it.

xMathFanx · Mar 6, 2018

NeverTrumpGOP said:
Oh yeah. History and Math are very specialized jobs. You almost need a PhD to get anywhere in that circuit. I'd suggest specializing in big data or cryptocurrencies if you want to do math. I don't know what you can do with a History degree but if it's your passion go for it.

That is why I intend to get Associates degrees in Engineering, Physics, Chemistry, & possibly CS next year, as it will only take 1 year plus summer courses at a very limited cost (since there is significant overlap in the subjects) and coupled with a Mathematics BS, will credential me for all kinds of solid paying jobs that a Math BS alone really does fails to. From there, I have a 'safety net' to fall back on and will not have to be concerned to take out a sizeable loan/investment when going to Graduate School the following year.

Consider, in order to get these Associates at this point (considering the Math BS), would require only:

Engineering: 4 classes
Chemistry: 2 classes
Physics: 1 class
Computer Science: 3 classes

Total cost: less than $3,000
Qualifies one for a variety of jobs in the $50,000-$60,000 range in jobs that are in increasing demand. That is quite a compelling input-output ratio (in my view)

Linc · Mar 6, 2018

xMathFanx said:
Yes--you made two strong observations.

(1) Doing Community College in High School is an excellent route to take, as one can attain qualifications for a very solid income job by the time they graduate at age 18, as well as half-way into credit toward a Bachelors. Also, I believe the School District is required to pay for students who take this option, which means it can be attained for free

(2) Community Colleges offer a number of Trade degrees, certificates, and/or apprenticeships--all of which lead to very solid professions (and for very minimal cost)

Next time don't start these threads so late. :mrgreen: I'll visit again.
This is a song from back in my day:
When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school;

Crovax · Mar 6, 2018

NeverTrumpGOP said:
Oh yeah. History and Math are very specialized jobs. You almost need a PhD to get anywhere in that circuit. I'd suggest specializing in big data or cryptocurrencies if you want to do math. I don't know what you can do with a History degree but if it's your passion go for it.

That depends on what you think the field of "math" is.

Crovax · Mar 6, 2018

xMathFanx said:
That is why I intend to get Associates degrees in Engineering, Physics, Chemistry, & possibly CS next year, as it will only take 1 year plus summer courses at a very limited cost (since there is significant overlap in the subjects) and coupled with a Mathematics BS, will credential me for all kinds of solid paying jobs that a Math BS alone really does fails to. From there, I have a 'safety net' to fall back on and will not have to be concerned to take out a sizeable loan/investment when going to Graduate School the following year.

Consider, in order to get these Associates at this point (considering the Math BS), would require only:

Engineering: 4 classes
Chemistry: 2 classes
Physics: 1 class
Computer Science: 3 classes

Total cost: less than $3,000
Qualifies one for a variety of jobs in the $50,000-$60,000 range in jobs that are in increasing demand. That is quite a compelling input-output ratio (in my view)

I think you are in for a shock. You need a 4 year degree to get into an interview but thats about it, those extra credentials arent going to mean anything other than CS and you dont need the degree you just need to know the languages

xMathFanx · Mar 6, 2018

Crovax said:
I think you are in for a shock. You need a 4 year degree to get into an interview but thats about it, those extra credentials arent going to mean anything other than CS and you dont need the degree you just need to know the languages

Actually, from what I have seen, the 'shock' is overwhelmingly the other way around. That is, I know a lot of Math/Physics majors who have graduated and struggle to find good jobs, and ultimately take what they can get (which can be difficult to find). The assumption going in is that if one gets a Mathematics degree, then they are 'set' analogous to getting an Engineering degree. However, when they go to apply for jobs, they quickly find out employers tend only to be interested in Engineering, Computer Science, or Statistics--as the exact specialization is what they are concerned with, not a generalized skill set.

People are typically 'suckers' for credentials--unfortunately

xMathFanx · Mar 6, 2018

Note: Entry-level Engineering positions with a Bachelors average $60,000. Compare that to some Associate degree programs; Dental Hygienist is over $70,000, Registered Nurse (RN) $60,000-65,000, Engineering Technician-$50,000-60,000, Radiology Technician-$50,000-$55,000, Software Developer/Engineer-$60,000, ect. ect.

HowardBThiname · Mar 6, 2018

xMathFanx said:
Is it wiser to pursue an Associate Degree program(s) rather than Bachelor Degree?

In my opinion, it really depends on the field. In health care, you'll reach a wage ceiling with a two-year program, such as an LPN or certified aide, but in a technology field, the degree will get you the job and then you'll advance based on experience. In computer science, for example, your work experience will weigh heavily in determining your future jobs.

Then again, if you want to go into business, it helps to have a basic understanding of business, but nothing past an Associates, before you start a business.

What field are you interested in?

holbritter · Mar 6, 2018

While any education is good and an Associates will open more doors than without, today an Associates is what a high school diploma was years ago. A Bachelors is usually the minimum in many fields, so it would depend on your career choice.

holbritter · Mar 6, 2018

xMathFanx said:
@Lursa

Consider, my local Community College costs only $1,500 per semester, and there are about 15 or so Associates Degrees (2 year programs) which will qualify a person for $40,000-$70,000 jobs--that is one hell of an input-output ratio compared to the 'traditional'/conformist advice given to the kids. Also, the credits apply equally in all areas, so once one gets an Associates Degree in one area, it is much easier/shorter route to get another in a related area. Then, a young adult could build up several such degrees while still very young (i.e. low twenties) at which point it would become nearly inconceivable they would not always have a solid paying job to fall back on for the rest of their lives--all without paying the absurd 4 year cost directly out of High School (btw, it is generally not '4 years' anymore, but often well more than 4). Furthermore, the A.S. degrees set up if they ever did want to pursue more advanced degrees, then they have a good chunk of the B.A./B.S. completed already without the first half cost; then, they could make that decision when they are closer to mid twenties range and actually able to think clearly about making such a significant life decision (of taking out a lot of money in loans for a B.A./B.S. and possibly higher i.e. M.A./M.S., PhD).

That would be a good idea if you were unsure. My daughter took her first year in a community college, getting all her gen ed credits in, that were easily transferable. Good money saving route.

nota bene · Mar 6, 2018

holbritter said:
While any education is good and an Associates will open more doors than without, today an Associates is what a high school diploma was years ago. A Bachelors is usually the minimum in many fields, so it would depend on your career choice.

An Associate of Applied Science is all you need to have a great career as a radiology tech or dental hygienist or network administrator or an EMS. I've seen a lot of EMS's later, especially as vets began returning home, go into nursing or medicine. And EMS earn enough continuing education credits to add up to a Bachelor's or even Master's.

ttwtt78640 · Mar 6, 2018

xMathFanx said:
Good question. No--I am more arguing that it is much wiser for young adults fresh out of High School to first get an AA/AS and wait until their mid-twenties to make such a huge life decision as taking out $60,000+ loans for a BA/BS and (possibly) beyond, if desired.

Note: Yes, a Associate Degree is a 2 year degree from a Community College or is often offered in connection with many Satellite Campuses to major Universities such as Penn State, for example

Having the AA/AS degree (or a trade school certificate) opens more job opportunities for you to reduce the need for massive loans in two ways: 1) you can then earn enough to save money for your further education and 2) the employer may offer tuition reimbursement assistance. I also agree that you are apt to make better decisions a bit later in life.

longview · Mar 6, 2018

The two plus two option (two years at community college, two years at the university), is great financially
as long as the university has a plan that accepts the credits. ( you do not want to pay for a class twice.)
beyond that, the benefit to picking up a associates degree is that it locks in your credits.
without a degree your earned credits will disappear in 7 years, which means on a slow Bachelor path,
your first year credits could start to drop off before your graduation audit.
The associates is also a good backup plan, Say a person wants to be an electrical engineer,
An associates in electronics, or electrical power distribution, could complement the EE degree.
If for events beyond their control they could not complete the EE degree, they still have good career chances.

Associate Degree vs. Bachelor Degree

Is it wiser to pursue an Associate Degree program(s) rather than Bachelor Degree?

Yes--Associate Degree

No--Bachelor Degree

Other

xMathFanx

Lursa

Tenacious

xMathFanx

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015

radioman

feckless bon vivant

xMathFanx

xMathFanx

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015

Linc

NIMBY

xMathFanx

xMathFanx

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015

xMathFanx

Linc

NIMBY

Crovax

Crovax

xMathFanx

xMathFanx

HowardBThiname

holbritter

holbritter

nota bene

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

longview