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Some Bay Area High Schools Want To Ditch A-To-F Grading System

Renae

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San Domenico is one of more than 100 schools across the country participating in the mastery transcript consortium. It is a new teaching model that aims to evaluate how well a student has ‘mastered’ a concept. Rather than receiving a letter grade, students will be given a review from their teacher.“Instead of a B it would look like more of a narrative,” Says Reeser.
The Mastery Transcript Consortium website shows what a sample transcript for a graduating student would look like. A pie chart illustrates what skills the student has mastered, and below it are descriptions of their earned credits tailored to that individual.
Some Bay Area High Schools Shifting Away From A-To-F Grading System « CBS San Francisco

What a croc of silly ****.
 
Why? That A-F scale is stupid. Besides the fact it's merely what we've done in the past, do you have a legitimate argument as to why it is necessary? When was the last time you were at work and told that you would only get a raise if you got 97% efficiency for a letter grade of A? I suspect most of us haven't used that since our last day in school.

Is this system being explored better than A-F? Meh, I don't know enough about it, but I reject the idea our current system is infallibly logical or a great way to show understanding of content. It's just quick and easy and, as stated in the article, easy enough for good students to exploit.

Again, I don't know if THIS is the best solution, but the idea we cannot consider anything else but A-F is just absurd.
 

I actually think they need to get away from it myself. If a student doesn't have an "A" he or she hasn't mastered the concept and should not be allowed to progress until mastery is accomplished.

I understand that it's a way to judge a child's academic level but I think it's counterproductive.

A child usually needs a C to pass a class or a grade. A C is usually in the 70 percentile of accuracy. That kid is moving on even though he doesn't know 30% of the material. That's not education. That's a cop-out.

Even a kid who gets a 90% on a test and receives an A, doesn't know 10% of the material.

Drop the grades and insist that kids learn the material before they get to go on.
 
I actually think they need to get away from it myself. If a student doesn't have an "A" he or she hasn't mastered the concept and should not be allowed to progress until mastery is accomplished.

I understand that it's a way to judge a child's academic level but I think it's counterproductive.

A child usually needs a C to pass a class or a grade. A C is usually in the 70 percentile of accuracy. That kid is moving on even though he doesn't know 30% of the material. That's not education. That's a cop-out.

Even a kid who gets a 90% on a test and receives an A, doesn't know 10% of the material.

Drop the grades and insist that kids learn the material before they get to go on.

I have to strongly disagree, quite often all that matters is the core concepts and that is what a C represents. Why should someone be required to learn material that quite often becomes pointless after the class ends and be required to repeat something because they did not memorize page 46 of a 500 page textbook?
 
I actually think they need to get away from it myself. If a student doesn't have an "A" he or she hasn't mastered the concept and should not be allowed to progress until mastery is accomplished.

I understand that it's a way to judge a child's academic level but I think it's counterproductive.

A child usually needs a C to pass a class or a grade. A C is usually in the 70 percentile of accuracy. That kid is moving on even though he doesn't know 30% of the material. That's not education. That's a cop-out.

Even a kid who gets a 90% on a test and receives an A, doesn't know 10% of the material.

Drop the grades and insist that kids learn the material before they get to go on.

I understandvthat that is the way they teach math in Shanghai, which scores highest internationally on math achievement of students.
 
Why? That A-F scale is stupid. Besides the fact it's merely what we've done in the past, do you have a legitimate argument as to why it is necessary? When was the last time you were at work and told that you would only get a raise if you got 97% efficiency for a letter grade of A? I suspect most of us haven't used that since our last day in school.

Is this system being explored better than A-F? Meh, I don't know enough about it, but I reject the idea our current system is infallibly logical or a great way to show understanding of content. It's just quick and easy and, as stated in the article, easy enough for good students to exploit.

Again, I don't know if THIS is the best solution, but the idea we cannot consider anything else but A-F is just absurd.
I'm all for new ideas, this is one I think is dumber than ****. "A narrative explaining what the child has mastered as well as a pie chart..."

Doesn't tell me much. So if I get a narrative full of flowery language and a pretty pie chart am I going to know this kid sucks at math? Maybe they are great at math and bad at english. As a college admissions team, a potential employer... it's what you're not seeing that's the problem.
 
I'm all for new ideas, this is one I think is dumber than ****. "A narrative explaining what the child has mastered as well as a pie chart..."

Doesn't tell me much. So if I get a narrative full of flowery language and a pretty pie chart am I going to know this kid sucks at math? Maybe they are great at math and bad at english. As a college admissions team, a potential employer... it's what you're not seeing that's the problem.

That is how some 'day schools' operate, and the level of achievement of those students is much higher than the high schools that have the A to F grading. Of course, small classes with good teachers could have something to do with that, not the grading system.
 
That is how some 'day schools' operate, and the level of achievement of those students is much higher than the high schools that have the A to F grading. Of course, small classes with good teachers could have something to do with that, not the grading system.
Are you saying private schools are a better way to go than public schools?
 
I actually think they need to get away from it myself. If a student doesn't have an "A" he or she hasn't mastered the concept and should not be allowed to progress until mastery is accomplished.

I understand that it's a way to judge a child's academic level but I think it's counterproductive.

A child usually needs a C to pass a class or a grade. A C is usually in the 70 percentile of accuracy. That kid is moving on even though he doesn't know 30% of the material. That's not education. That's a cop-out.

Even a kid who gets a 90% on a test and receives an A, doesn't know 10% of the material.

Drop the grades and insist that kids learn the material before they get to go on.

I'd support it if kids could advance once a subject was mastered and I mean mastered. It would do a heck of a lot more to stratify kids between the capable/motivated and the not as capable/unmotivated. Want to apply to a good university... how many subjects did you master? Grades alone don't do nearly a good enough job.
 
The best drivers on the road are usually not the ones who scored the highest on the written portion of their driving exam... just sayin'...

Future universities and workplaces would do better than to JUST look at grades. I don't know the best way, but the kids with the highest grades are often not always ultimately the most capable or motivated.
 
It doesn't matter what the grades are.

Give all the little creatures a participation trophy for the effort.
 
Are you saying private schools are a better way to go than public schools?

not all private schools. The one I am thinking of was also very resource intensive.. there were like a dozen teachers, and the graduating class was 25. ..

Do that by 4 (100 students), with a dozen teachers, there is about 8 students per teacher. Most schools, even private schools, do not do that.


If you look at some of the 'charter schools', in addition to being more expensive, and also eliminating many of the children with special needs, their track record of grades and preparing students for further education was worse than the public schools. Many private schools will reject students with special needs, but for those people who can afford them, and whose child fits into that kind of environment, they can be very effective.
 
I have to strongly disagree, quite often all that matters is the core concepts and that is what a C represents. Why should someone be required to learn material that quite often becomes pointless after the class ends and be required to repeat something because they did not memorize page 46 of a 500 page textbook?

They shouldn't have to. There's no reason to teach flushable knowledge. Teachers should cover the subject thoroughly, but test only on what is absolutely essential. When the student masters the essential material, he/she should move on.
 
I understandvthat that is the way they teach math in Shanghai, which scores highest internationally on math achievement of students.

That's very interesting. It just seems like a naturally better way to me.
 
Pros and cons:

Pros... this is how real life works at most jobs. When you are given an evaluation, you are told what areas you have done well, what areas you may need to work on, and what areas you should move onto next. It's very real life oriented. It gives parents a more specific view of how their kid is doing. A "B" might not really be reflective of all the hard work a kid has done just to achieve that "B"... or just how lazy that kid was to get the "B" instead of something better. It's more descriptive. It can also make placement in future classes easier.

Cons... Colleges would have a problem with translating this data to a GPA for admissions. Workload for teachers would go up fairly significantly. A supervisor at a job would probably have a smaller number of evaluations, being done at larger intervals than teachers do.

Overall, I believe that some combination would work best.
 
I'm all for new ideas, this is one I think is dumber than ****. "A narrative explaining what the child has mastered as well as a pie chart..."

Doesn't tell me much.
If done correctly, it would tell you far more than a single letter of an alphabet ever could.

So if I get a narrative full of flowery language and a pretty pie chart am I going to know this kid sucks at math?
Why do you think if your child sucks at math the teacher won't write about how your child sucks at math? Or are you saying your ability (and by that I mean the parent/employer/admissions team, etc) to understand prose and informational graphics is lacking?

Maybe they are great at math and bad at english. As a college admissions team, a potential employer... it's what you're not seeing that's the problem.
Yes, all those people see right now is a letter. They don't see what areas they are strong in or what areas they need improvement.

Again, I'm not saying this particular system will be the answer, but, if done correctly, seems a much better system than what we currently have.
It doesn't matter what the grades are.

Give all the little creatures a participation trophy for the effort.
No one said anything about a participation trophy but you. The article said nothing about doing away with grades to spare feelings, but rather to replace the current system with something they feel is more informative and helpful.
 
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Pros and cons:

Pros... this is how real life works at most jobs. When you are given an evaluation, you are told what areas you have done well, what areas you may need to work on, and what areas you should move onto next. It's very real life oriented. It gives parents a more specific view of how their kid is doing. A "B" might not really be reflective of all the hard work a kid has done just to achieve that "B"... or just how lazy that kid was to get the "B" instead of something better. It's more descriptive. It can also make placement in future classes easier.

Cons... Colleges would have a problem with translating this data to a GPA for admissions. Workload for teachers would go up fairly significantly. A supervisor at a job would probably have a smaller number of evaluations, being done at larger intervals than teachers do.

Overall, I believe that some combination would work best.

Will you PLEASE stop being so rational? Takes all the emotional knee-jerkism out of it and makes the issue demonstrably easier to address in a practical manner.

Sheesh. SOME people.
 
Pros and cons:

Pros... this is how real life works at most jobs. When you are given an evaluation, you are told what areas you have done well, what areas you may need to work on, and what areas you should move onto next. It's very real life oriented. It gives parents a more specific view of how their kid is doing. A "B" might not really be reflective of all the hard work a kid has done just to achieve that "B"... or just how lazy that kid was to get the "B" instead of something better. It's more descriptive. It can also make placement in future classes easier.

Cons... Colleges would have a problem with translating this data to a GPA for admissions. Workload for teachers would go up fairly significantly. A supervisor at a job would probably have a smaller number of evaluations, being done at larger intervals than teachers do.

Overall, I believe that some combination would work best.

I think one way that "combination" is attempted is through "weighting" of the GPA. My kid got all ambitious as a 9th grader and took two AP classes (which usually are not taken until 11th grade). He worked really hard at them, but could only pull of a B in one and a B+ in the other. We thought it was going to clobber his GPA. But it turned out they got weighted as if he had gotten an "A" in both.

Many colleges will ask for both the weighted and unweighted GPA from the high school, and may even weigh the GPA separately themselves according to their own criteria. I don't know if having a lower unweighted GPA ends up hurting anyway, but I can't imagine they would penalize a kid for really pushing themselves in tough classes and not scoring perfectly on them.
 
They shouldn't have to. There's no reason to teach flushable knowledge. Teachers should cover the subject thoroughly, but test only on what is absolutely essential. When the student masters the essential material, he/she should move on.

In most classes, mastering only the essential material will get only get you a "B" at best. The "A" is reserved for going above and beyond.
 
They shouldn't have to. There's no reason to teach flushable knowledge. Teachers should cover the subject thoroughly, but test only on what is absolutely essential. When the student masters the essential material, he/she should move on.

Except that is impossible, different students require different sets of knowledge. It is why I need only a C- in Intro to Finance while accounting students require a B-. Or take the law class I took in high school it was largely unnecessary for everyone but the one girl that wanted to be a lawyer, I still got an A but purely because of my own interest. An A should mean you went beyond what was expected of the average student. Then when schools look at a transcript they see a student did better than what was expected.
 
We have already moved away from the A-F grading system in my district. We use something similiar to the link. I think the system can be tweaked even more. Each child can have specific benchmarks they are working on and graded for mastery until they are allowed to go to the next benchmark. Since everything is computerized, the teacher choses the appropriate benchmark the student will work on than grade it for mastery by end of marking period. The benchmark will then change if mastery has been met. Currently, all our students are expected to meet the same benchmarks at the same time which is not really realistic
 
Why? That A-F scale is stupid. Besides the fact it's merely what we've done in the past, do you have a legitimate argument as to why it is necessary? When was the last time you were at work and told that you would only get a raise if you got 97% efficiency for a letter grade of A? I suspect most of us haven't used that since our last day in school.

Is this system being explored better than A-F? Meh, I don't know enough about it, but I reject the idea our current system is infallibly logical or a great way to show understanding of content. It's just quick and easy and, as stated in the article, easy enough for good students to exploit.

Again, I don't know if THIS is the best solution, but the idea we cannot consider anything else but A-F is just absurd.

Thank you for that. I'm sure you were too busy dealing with the "blargh!" reaction of his to say this, but I would say the most obvious issue is ensuring portability of grading system from district to district, school level to school level, to higher ed without too much being "lost in translation."
 

We teach skills here. Skills that transcend fields. Competencies that pertain to all people whether it is an engineer, a stay at home mother or a garbage man. Education is about creating a whole person.

It is no longer sufficient for students to merely acquire knowledge and master skills. Students need opportunities to develop their capability as users of knowledge and skills in wide-ranging contexts now and in the future.

This requires attention not only to their recall of knowledge, or ability to perform particular skills, young people need to be capable at thinking, using language, symbols and texts, managing self, relating to others, and participating and contributing.

Memorization and retention of facts is irrelevant to most unless they are delving directly into a particular field.

Students also need to be capable of using those competencies in diverse contexts – at school, in the community, at home, with friends, with peers, in mathematics and statistics, in the arts, and other learning areas.

They need to be both able, and inclined, to draw on knowledge, skills, attitudes, and values simultaneously as they interact with others in their learning and in all aspects of their lives.

In the end though... we still conduct examinations and issue grades.
 
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