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Question about Private School Vouchers.

ThoughtEx.

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To start, I got no problem with public funds going to a Charter School. Not one.

But, I've always been suspicious of public funds going to a private school in the forms of vouchers. Mainly, because the reason private schools do so well is they cull the underperformers. And boot them back to the public schools, or another private school. I doubt they ever come out and say the reason they cull these students. But we all know, if a school admin wants you gone, they find a reason.

My question is, when Devos starts this voucher program. And a parent chooses a private school for their kid who underperforms. Will there be some sort of guarantee on the funds? For instance, Lil' Johny goes to private school, and makes all D's. And the principle decides lil'Johny has got to go, and trumps up some reason or other. Does the tuition get refunded to the state, or does the private school keep it?

If lil Johny gets kicked back down to public school, with the rest of the underperformers not able to cut it in Private School, does the money follow him to the Public School?

Should we offer vouchers to schools with a No Refund policy?

Bonus Question. What about Rural Areas, the people who mostly voted for Trump. I grew up in an area without a private or charter school, heavily Republican, for about a hundred miles. Where is their choice? Most places that have public or private schools are in fact Urban areas, who if I'm not mistaken were filled full of people totally against Devos and Trump. Will there be private schools built to bring the types of schools to the people who actually voted for this. Or are our population centers just getting stuck with a defunded public school system and plenty of opportunity to learn about Adam and Eve in Science Class?

Serious question, how are the rural people who wanted this getting their kids to these private schools? I suspect, Betsy's family will be more than happy to open a chain of private schools across the country. If she gets the chance, but I'd like to hear what the plan is from the people who advocate this.
 
If we're going to have the public option (public schools in this case), we fund the public option. No and's if's or but's about it. If you want additional on top of that, you pay for it.

People without kids get no say, their tax dollars go to the public system. So we all pay to the public system. If you don't like the public system, you can lobby to dismantle it. Bur so long as it exists, it gets funded. You want private, you pay for private. Sucks, but such is life.
 
To start, I got no problem with public funds going to a Charter School. Not one.

But, I've always been suspicious of public funds going to a private school in the forms of vouchers. Mainly, because the reason private schools do so well is they cull the underperformers. And boot them back to the public schools, or another private school. I doubt they ever come out and say the reason they cull these students. But we all know, if a school admin wants you gone, they find a reason.

My question is, when Devos starts this voucher program. And a parent chooses a private school for their kid who underperforms. Will there be some sort of guarantee on the funds? For instance, Lil' Johny goes to private school, and makes all D's. And the principle decides lil'Johny has got to go, and trumps up some reason or other. Does the tuition get refunded to the state, or does the private school keep it?

If lil Johny gets kicked back down to public school, with the rest of the underperformers not able to cut it in Private School, does the money follow him to the Public School?

Should we offer vouchers to schools with a No Refund policy?

Bonus Question. What about Rural Areas, the people who mostly voted for Trump. I grew up in an area without a private or charter school, heavily Republican, for about a hundred miles. Where is their choice? Most places that have public or private schools are in fact Urban areas, who if I'm not mistaken were filled full of people totally against Devos and Trump. Will there be private schools built to bring the types of schools to the people who actually voted for this. Or are our population centers just getting stuck with a defunded public school system and plenty of opportunity to learn about Adam and Eve in Science Class?

Serious question, how are the rural people who wanted this getting their kids to these private schools? I suspect, Betsy's family will be more than happy to open a chain of private schools across the country. If she gets the chance, but I'd like to hear what the plan is from the people who advocate this.

Put vouchers in place and it will create a private school market. That means that there will be schools (not in every locale) focused on a wide array of kids, including "under-performers". There will be schools that will be marketing themselves to parents of kids who need the kind of attention that these kids need and will be focused on bringing them curriculum and techniques that will be specialized for them. No more half-assed "one size fits all" schools or worse schools that teach down to the lowest common denominator.
 
I say everyone should just homeschool!

But then I'm homeschooled, so I might be a little biased.
 
Put vouchers in place and it will create a private school market. That means that there will be schools (not in every locale) focused on a wide array of kids, including "under-performers". There will be schools that will be marketing themselves to parents of kids who need the kind of attention that these kids need and will be focused on bringing them curriculum and techniques that will be specialized for them. No more half-assed "one size fits all" schools or worse schools that teach down to the lowest common denominator.

Ok, I'm not saying that sounds bad. But, back to my original question. When these private schools are unable to meet the kids needs and cuts em loose to save their numbers (which they will be advertising on, and thus have a higher incentive to keep high), will their be a refund? As Betsy Devos says, we expect a return on our investment.
 
Put vouchers in place and it will create a private school market. That means that there will be schools (not in every locale) focused on a wide array of kids, including "under-performers". There will be schools that will be marketing themselves to parents of kids who need the kind of attention that these kids need and will be focused on bringing them curriculum and techniques that will be specialized for them. No more half-assed "one size fits all" schools or worse schools that teach down to the lowest common denominator.

The reason why these standards, laws, and regulations that are tied to federal funding exist is precisely because the market was not providing for the needs of these children and there is absolutely no reason to believe that will change. If you see a problem in the public school system then fix it within the public school system instead of abandoning it in favor of a for-profit scheme that has left nothing but scandal in its wake in every State it has been tried.
 
What if your parents aren't too bright?

Honestly my parents didn't teach me much academically. When I was little we they helped me with reading and basic math, but after that not that much. How we homeschool is known as unschooling. That means we don't follow a curriculum or assign grades. My younger brothers and I have learned by following out interests. We started homeschooling because my dad travels full time for his work and we move every few months. So wherever we are we go to museums, national parks, historical sites ect. There is also so much online now. I learned most of my math from Khan Academy and also a good bit of economics, history, government, and coding.

The best example of self-taught unschooling comes from my youngest brother. As he grew up we tried to get him to read, but he wasn't really interested. By the time he was 6yrs old he still couldn't really read. By normal school standards he would have been considered way behind. He always loved listening to the Harry Potter audio books though. One day he pulled out our old hard copy of the first Harry Potter book and told us he wanted to read it. He had never read a single book before and we weren't sure what to think. He struggled a lot at first but with some help he finished the first page. A few days later he was able to read most pages by himself. A month went by and he was done the first few chapters. Three months later he was done the book and was reading proficiently. What we have found is if you really love something and the motivation comes from genuine interest in the subject, you learn it very quickly.
 
To start, I got no problem with public funds going to a Charter School. Not one.

But, I've always been suspicious of public funds going to a private school in the forms of vouchers. Mainly, because the reason private schools do so well is they cull the under performers. And boot them back to the public schools, or another private school. I doubt they ever come out and say the reason they cull these students. But we all know, if a school admin wants you gone, they find a reason.

My question is, when Devos starts this voucher program. And a parent chooses a private school for their kid who underperforms. Will there be some sort of guarantee on the funds? For instance, Lil' Johny goes to private school, and makes all D's. And the principle decides lil'Johny has got to go, and trumps up some reason or other. Does the tuition get refunded to the state, or does the private school keep it?

If lil Johny gets kicked back down to public school, with the rest of the underperformers not able to cut it in Private School, does the money follow him to the Public School?

Should we offer vouchers to schools with a No Refund policy?

Bonus Question. What about Rural Areas, the people who mostly voted for Trump. I grew up in an area without a private or charter school, heavily Republican, for about a hundred miles. Where is their choice? Most places that have public or private schools are in fact Urban areas, who if I'm not mistaken were filled full of people totally against Devos and Trump. Will there be private schools built to bring the types of schools to the people who actually voted for this. Or are our population centers just getting stuck with a defunded public school system and plenty of opportunity to learn about Adam and Eve in Science Class?

Serious question, how are the rural people who wanted this getting their kids to these private schools? I suspect, Betsy's family will be more than happy to open a chain of private schools across the country. If she gets the chance, but I'd like to hear what the plan is from the people who advocate this.

Public schools are actually "Government schools". We know all about them so I won't provide a link, but before you go too far you should understand charter schools beyond the MSM's reporting:

About public charter schools

Regarding under performers, some schools do better than others based on resources both financial and talent. If you child is having trouble reading for example, but the school is overwhelmed by anti social behavior and can't retain teachers, what are you as a parent supposed to do? Move? That is what you have to do to change government schools. I see charter schools as almost like a form of home schooling.

Government schools are a mixed bag, but the only common denominator is they exist to support the teacher's unions and the politicians the union supports. Charter schools are not necessary private schools. In California they are quasi public/private schools that don't generally hire union teachers (It is reported that union teachers are blackballed if they accept employment)

So the argument boils down to this: Who is responsible for the education of your child. The government's one district one school, take it or leave it system? Or some alternative that gives you some place to get a better education for your child. Who is boss, you or the teacher's union? The State's obligation is to "educate" to a certain standard. It doesn't say by what organization but that that standard be met.

We have great schools where I live. Not far away, it's chaos in the classroom. Both are government schools. One group is happy as a clam and has no reason to move. The other group has nothing but trouble - truancy, drugs, insubordination, fighting, intimidation, bullying. (we need a "special" charter schools for some of these kids, IMO)

Additional information on charter schools:
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=charter+schools+
And the Teachers Union:
California Teachers Assn.: Rich, powerful and against reform - latimes

Lastly De Vos is not going to blindly support the status quo on education. She is going to try other systems where the current system is failing. What exactly is wrong with that?
 
Public schools are actually "Government schools". We know all about them so I won't provide a link, but before you go too far you should understand charter schools beyond the MSM's reporting:

About public charter schools

Regarding under performers, some schools do better than others based on resources both financial and talent. If you child is having trouble reading for example, but the school is overwhelmed by anti social behavior and can't retain teachers, what are you as a parent supposed to do? Move? That is what you have to do to change government schools. I see charter schools as almost like a form of home schooling.

Government schools are a mixed bag, but the only common denominator is they exist to support the teacher's unions and the politicians the union supports. Charter schools are not necessary private schools. In California they are quasi public/private schools that don't generally hire union teachers (It is reported that union teachers are blackballed if they accept employment)

So the argument boils down to this: Who is responsible for the education of your child. The government's one district one school, take it or leave it system? Or some alternative that gives you some place to get a better education for your child. Who is boss, you or the teacher's union? The State's obligation is to "educate" to a certain standard. It doesn't say by what organization but that that standard be met.

We have great schools where I live. Not far away, it's chaos in the classroom. Both are government schools. One group is happy as a clam and has no reason to move. The other group has nothing but trouble - truancy, drugs, insubordination, fighting, intimidation, bullying. (we need a "special" charter schools for some of these kids, IMO)

Additional information on charter schools:
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=charter+schools+
And the Teachers Union:
California Teachers Assn.: Rich, powerful and against reform - latimes

Lastly De Vos is not going to blindly support the status quo on education. She is going to try other systems where the current system is failing. What exactly is wrong with that?

Read the first sentence in my OP, then read the question as it regards to private schools.
 
Read the first sentence in my OP, then read the question as it regards to private schools.

I didn't say you did. You do have a bunch of worried possibilities that hopefully will be ironed out as change is implemented. I think we both can agree that too many public schools are failing, and those schools need to try different approaches.
 
I say everyone should just homeschool!

But then I'm homeschooled, so I might be a little biased.

How old are you? are you done, or still being home schooled?

There are several teachers in my family, their experience is that some home schooled kids do well and graduate with a decent education, but too many are way behind and IF they go to college they end up having to take remedial classes...
 
Ok, I'm not saying that sounds bad. But, back to my original question. When these private schools are unable to meet the kids needs and cuts em loose to save their numbers (which they will be advertising on, and thus have a higher incentive to keep high), will their be a refund? As Betsy Devos says, we expect a return on our investment.

Public schools do the same thing. They just pass them through.
There is no difference.
 
How old are you? are you done, or still being home schooled?

There are several teachers in my family, their experience is that some home schooled kids do well and graduate with a decent education, but too many are way behind and IF they go to college they end up having to take remedial classes...

I'm 18 and just got accepted to Wells College. I've been taking college classes at Austin Community College in the meantime and have a 3.7 GPA from those classes. I know a lot of other home schoolers and most are doing very well academically. The key thing is most home schoolers LOVE learning and are deeply passionate about their favorite subjects.

Studies show home schoolers do better in college on average than "normal" kids. Homeschooled Students Well-Prepared For College, Study Finds | The Huffington Post
 
To start, I got no problem with public funds going to a Charter School. Not one.

But, I've always been suspicious of public funds going to a private school in the forms of vouchers. Mainly, because the reason private schools do so well is they cull the underperformers. And boot them back to the public schools, or another private school. I doubt they ever come out and say the reason they cull these students. But we all know, if a school admin wants you gone, they find a reason.

My question is, when Devos starts this voucher program. And a parent chooses a private school for their kid who underperforms. Will there be some sort of guarantee on the funds?

The answer is no. Once public money goes into private hands the public loses accountability. A fundamental problem with taking public money and giving it to private institutions.
 
The answer is no. Once public money goes into private hands the public loses accountability. A fundamental problem with taking public money and giving it to private institutions.

You don't have accountability now except in the better school districts.

I think you need to look at the California system of charter schools before you draw too many conclusions. No one is advocating just sending a check to a madrasas school in Detroit, or Mary's Ding Dong School in a Hell's Angles bar.
 
You don't have accountability now except in the better school districts.

I think you need to look at the California system of charter schools before you draw too many conclusions. No one is advocating just sending a check to a madrasas school in Detroit, or Mary's Ding Dong School in a Hell's Angles bar.

Yes, you do have accountability via voting for your school committee members, and also being held accountable by the Dept. of Ed. It is your money, you get to actively participate in the process. That is not so when you talk about private institutions.
 
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