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In an Ideal World is College Necessary for Most jobs?

UtahBill said:
I have a grandchild with an inoperable brain tumor....first thing the insurance company tried was to say it was a pre-existing condition. That failed, so they tried to claim the treatment was experimental. That failed as well. Took some lawyers to do it, but we won.
So, we have seen it up close. For every person refused coverage and likely ending up on medicaid, there is probably a larger number who never applied thinking that they don't need it right now. I know some of my kin are taking that chance, saying they can't afford it, but they can afford their cigarettes, beer, dining out a lot, etc.
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and your take on the free market being responsible for your health insurance is??
 
RetiredUSN said:
Good for you.

Some people enjoy the freedom of not working for the man, and setting their own schedules without repercussions. Some people do not need a boss to tell him/her what they are worth. You chose to work for the man by his rules and it seemed to have worked out to your satisfaction.

Now, back on subject. You don't need a college education to very well for yourself.
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I don't have a degree, but I do have the education.....Navy electronics A and B schools, Nuclear power school, and then used GI bill to get another 100 credits going to night school. The college classes didn't help much, as I got the good civilian jobs before going to college. Knowledge and competence will win you the jobs most of the time.
And we all know college grads who are almost totally useless....
 
Militant_Vegan_ said:
and your take on the free market being responsible for your health insurance is??
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I would rather my employer give me the money they would have spent covering me and let me find my own insurer.....same with retirement benefits.
 
UtahBill said:
I would rather my employer give me the money they would have spent covering me and let me find my own insurer.....same with retirement benefits.
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so you're happy with your private coverage and how easy it is to use. obama's fault, probably?
 
Militant_Vegan_ said:
so you're happy with your private coverage and how easy it is to use. obama's fault, probably?
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I am 70, on Medicare and Tricare (for B supplement and Part D based on Military retirement benefits).
And the VA is available to me as well, thanks to Agent Orange....
 
UtahBill said:
I have a grandchild with an inoperable brain tumor....first thing the insurance company tried was to say it was a pre-existing condition. That failed, so they tried to claim the treatment was experimental. That failed as well. Took some lawyers to do it, but we won.
So, we have seen it up close. For every person refused coverage and likely ending up on medicaid, there is probably a larger number who never applied thinking that they don't need it right now. I know some of my kin are taking that chance, saying they can't afford it, but they can afford their cigarettes, beer, dining out a lot, etc.
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Right but you shouldn't have had to get a lawyer and not everyone can afford that. Can't you see how outrageous that is? Insurance companies are the real death panels, and if the democrats were worth a damn they would make this case instead of rely on michael moore. Taking the profit motive away would *of course* remove that possibility.

Then all those leeches you're worried about, those who avoid buying insurance until they're sick, they are taking a huge risk but also, due to that 20% profit by the middle man, you could insure all of them under single payer AND pay less for your own insurance. Single payer is cheaper in every other country, and none wishes to get of it. In canada for instance, 9% of their GDP goes into treatment, compared to 13% here. $1 billion on prescriptions is spent annually by americans in canada, due to vastly lower costs. Portability is also a huge benefit, since you don't need to consider "out of network" doctors when traveling. There are some conditions that might be better treated here, such as mental illness, but you don't need insurance companies for that (or anything).

In the UK, the average citizen pays a whopping 4.5% of income for the health service that's regarded as a national treasure. Compare that to what someone making $12/hr here would pay in premiums and deductibles, even with ACA subsidies. Without it, that comes to 25% of his income! You will see 20 million lose access to health care immediately. This is why the ACA will not be repealed - many of those are rural dwellers who would turn on republicans. Even with subsidies though it's still freaking 15% to reach the deductible, which is why you see many healthy paying the tax instead...which btw, the tax is more than single payer would be in the UK
 
chromium said:
Right but you shouldn't have had to get a lawyer and not everyone can afford that. Can't you see how outrageous that is? Insurance companies are the real death panels, and if the democrats were worth a damn they would make this case instead of rely on michael moore. Taking the profit motive away would *of course* remove that possibility.

Then all those leeches you're worried about, those who avoid buying insurance until they're sick, they are taking a huge risk but also, due to that 20% profit by the middle man, you could insure all of them under single payer AND pay less for your own insurance. Single payer is cheaper in every other country, and none wishes to get of it. In canada for instance, 9% of their GDP goes into treatment, compared to 13% here. $1 billion on prescriptions is spent annually by americans in canada, due to vastly lower costs. Portability is also a huge benefit, since you don't need to consider "out of network" doctors when traveling. There are some conditions that might be better treated here, such as mental illness, but you don't need insurance companies for that (or anything).

In the UK, the average citizen pays a whopping 4.5% of income for the health service that's regarded as a national treasure. Compare that to what someone making $12/hr here would pay in premiums and deductibles, even with ACA subsidies. Without it, that comes to 25% of his income! You will see 20 million lose access to health care immediately. This is why the ACA will not be repealed - many of those are rural dwellers who would turn on republicans. Even with subsidies though it's still freaking 15% to reach the deductible, which is why you see many healthy paying the tax instead...which btw, the tax is more than single payer would be in the UK
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Some lawyers will take that kind of case for free....seems the only lawyers that like insurance companies are the ones working for the insurance companies.
When ACA is required for all, I will be for it and single pay. I have seen this coming for a long time, at least 20 years. As you say, business here is competing against overseas business who have govt funded health care. But it has to apply to all equally, no free rides.
 
UtahBill said:
I am 70, on Medicare and Tricare (for B supplement and Part D based on Military retirement benefits).
And the VA is available to me as well, thanks to Agent Orange....
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thank god you have socialized medicine. the hell with everyone elsel
 
Militant_Vegan_ said:
thank god you have socialized medicine. the hell with everyone elsel
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so, you think a promised benefit for which I gave a lot of years service is socialized medicine?
If it was up to me, all who are physically able would donate some years of service to his/her country and in return get some serious discounts on healthcare premiums, amount of discounts dependent on number of years of service.
 
UtahBill said:
so, you think a promised benefit for which I gave a lot of years service is socialized medicine?
If it was up to me, all who are physically able would donate some years of service to his/her country and in return get some serious discounts on healthcare premiums, amount of discounts dependent on number of years of service.
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yes. you're getting free health care off of my hard earned taxes.

I SHOULD GET FREE HEALTH CARE FROM MY HARD EARNED TAXES TOO
 
Militant_Vegan_ said:
yes. you're getting free health care off of my hard earned taxes.

I SHOULD GET FREE HEALTH CARE FROM MY HARD EARNED TAXES TOO
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and you will, when you have 40 years work history including 20 years military service during which you will pay taxes and social security..no free rides.
 
UtahBill said:
so, you think a promised benefit for which I gave a lot of years service is socialized medicine?
If it was up to me, all who are physically able would donate some years of service to his/her country and in return get some serious discounts on healthcare premiums, amount of discounts dependent on number of years of service.
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I don't know about 50 years ago but today, we spend wayyyy more on military than we need to. Most of that is to politically favored subcontractors, building giant warships and establishing bases everywhere that will likely never be needed because....we're not at war. $1 trillion a year (HALF of the federal budget) could instead pay for health care for all at 0% tax, or ensure those who pay into social security will actually not have it stolen

It's all about choices and values, but it's still socialism, and all interrelated
 
UtahBill said:
and you will, when you have 40 years work history including 20 years military service during which you will pay taxes and social security..no free rides.
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In the meantime, don't get sick

yuk yuk
 
UtahBill said:
I think the dems have a similar base....
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an uneducated population, certainly
but one less inclined to demean getting an education
unlike withi the republican ranks, among democrats, being smart is found to be a good thing
 
chromium said:
Well one clearly defined plan would be getting into a top 20 school so you don't need to take on debt. It's remarkable how few high school kids are even aware of this
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Not every high school student, not even every college worthy high school student, can be accepted by a top 20 school, regardless of how well they planed or how hard they tried. There simply aren't enough seats available.

And if the only colleges we had were the top 20, this country would be woefully undereducated.

You have a great plan for a some individuals, but that's not a plan that works for the masses.
 
imagep said:
Not every high school student, not even every college worthy high school student, can be accepted by a top 20 school, regardless of how well they planed or how hard they tried. There simply aren't enough seats available.

And if the only colleges we had were the top 20, this country would be woefully undereducated.

You have a great plan for a some individuals, but that's not a plan that works for the masses.
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I agree it's insufficient when it comes to drafting federal policy, but we don't get anywhere by pretending that there's no way for the individual to get out of massive debt either. The fact is, you don't need to be a Mensa candidate to get into a top 20 school. You just need to put some effort in and frankly, just surviving the gangs and deadend bullies is the hardest part. I know kids at top 20 from the inner city who would lie to their crew and 'brag' that they flunked all their tests. That is the pathetic state of K-12

Another path open, regardless whether you get into a top 20, you can duel enrollment / AP or technical training like CTE while in high school. You can walk away with almost an Associate's degree, for free

As far as those who slack or for whatever reason manage to graduate high school but with poor grades and no college credit, which is the majority, i favor a hybrid approach: Tuition is free IF they meet certain standards - go to class, make SAP, graduate. If not, if they have all of 8 credits and a D average after a year or they miss 3 days of class in a row without serious illness, they lose funding. Because what i recall from dual enrollment at a commuter is probably 70% of the class would no show and predictably, *half* drop out within a year. I don't see why the fed should enable this kind of behavior. Face it, a lot of 19 year old 'kids' just want to get away from their parents and drink and the FAFSA even with just loans already enables that greatly
 
blackjack50 said:
Exactly as the title says...would it be?

In my personal opinion it wouldn't be. Most jobs CAN be done with a high school level of education. Maybe they require a bit of training, but a high school diploma provides the requisite educational skills needed.

So.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Nonsense title.
"In an ideal world"
Come on man.
 
this photo reminded me of this thread
math.jpg
 
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