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Minimum Wage Laws Boosting Wages

maxparrish said:
Lastly, no economist today believes FDR's policies in these instances were beneficial. You won't find any economist, liberal or conservative, promoting recovery by protecting companies from competition, price fixing agricultural goods, limiting food production, mandating high wages, etc. We all realize that FDR is a liberal icon that for those who believe he got us out of the depression (and he did do some good things) BUT action speaks louder than words. And no one thinks that most of the alphabet soup commissions and boards were are a good thing for recovery...even the Obama administration knew that.
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Agreed. Mostly. Does that surprise you? But you are not addressing the issue that set this entire digression off. What started this detour from the MW discussion (if we can call it that) was the statement that, and I quote: "The New Deal lengthened the Great Depression, making it worse." (As they say in school, read the question).

A quotation from my post #278:
To be sure, you can credibly argue that the New Deal had its share of problems. But overall, the numbers prove it helped - rather than hurt - the macroeconomy. "Excepting 1937-1938, unemployment fell each year of Roosevelt's first two terms (while) the U.S. economy grew at average annual growth rates of 9 percent to 10 percent," writes UC Davis historian Eric Rauchway.
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That is what we are debating, not whether or not the New Deal was absolutely the most perfect and flawless complex of laws ever devised. What is your position on that statement, specifically? Did the New Deal lengthen the Great Depression, making it worse?
 
Bates Medal and Pulitzer Prize winning economist, Paul Krugman, wrote this in 2008 during the Great Recession. He also demonstrates how to write about complex economics in a highly readable way:

"Now, there’s a whole intellectual industry, mainly operating out of right-wing think tanks, devoted to propagating the idea that F.D.R. actually made the Depression worse. So it’s important to know that most of what you hear along those lines is based on deliberate misrepresentation of the facts. The New Deal brought real relief to most Americans.

That said, F.D.R. did not, in fact, manage to engineer a full economic recovery during his first two terms. This failure is often cited as evidence against Keynesian economics, which says that increased public spending can get a stalled economy moving. But the definitive study of fiscal policy in the ’30s, by the M.I.T. economist E. Cary Brown, reached a very different conclusion: fiscal stimulus was unsuccessful “not because it does not work, but because it was not tried.”

This may seem hard to believe. The New Deal famously placed millions of Americans on the public payroll via the Works Progress Administration and the Civilian Conservation Corps. To this day we drive on W.P.A.-built roads and send our children to W.P.A.-built schools. Didn’t all these public works amount to a major fiscal stimulus?

Well, it wasn’t as major as you might think. The effects of federal public works spending were largely offset by other factors, notably a large tax increase, enacted by Herbert Hoover, whose full effects weren’t felt until his successor took office. Also, expansionary policy at the federal level was undercut by spending cuts and tax increases at the state and local level.

And F.D.R. wasn’t just reluctant to pursue an all-out fiscal expansion — he was eager to return to conservative budget principles. That eagerness almost destroyed his legacy. After winning a smashing election victory in 1936, the Roosevelt administration cut spending and raised taxes, precipitating an economic relapse that drove the unemployment rate back into double digits and led to a major defeat in the 1938 midterm elections.

What saved the economy, and the New Deal, was the enormous public works project known as World War II, which finally provided a fiscal stimulus adequate to the economy’s needs."​
 
jpn said:
The fact is, the left simply lives in the real world far more than the right does.
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Hitler Stalin Mao Pol Pot and many other lefties just killed 150 million in the real world. Why do you think Sanders honeymooned in the USSR and has supported many communist causes in his life if he doesn't want to give it yet another go? Green New Deal would give him as much power as Hitler Stalin and Mao had. NOw do you understand?
 
jpn said:
What saved the economy, and the New Deal, was the enormous public works project known as World War II, which finally provided a fiscal stimulus adequate to the economy’s needs."[/INDENT]
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totally insane of course!! building weapons is a waste of resources and decreases our standard of living. When FDR died his 16 year Depression and world War died with. That is when prosperity returned.
 
jpn said:
Didn’t all these public works amount to a major fiscal stimulus?
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obviously not that is why Depression never ended and why USSR never prospered. When bureaucrats steal and spend they guess and waste money; hen we keep and spend our own money every penny goes to a increased standard of living. Do you understand now?
 
jpn said:
fiscal stimulus was unsuccessful “not because it does not work, but because it was not tried.”
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soviet or fiscal stimulus cant work it merely creates a bubble that must burst and render us poorer not richer. Free market stimulus creates self sustaining growth that increases our standard of living.
 
jpn said:
The New Deal brought real relief to most Americans.
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they didn't want relief or welfare, they wanted a return to capitalism and a 6 month recovery, not a 16 year liberal Depression and World War that killed 60 million.
 
KevinKohler said:
Nah.

That title belongs to Navy Pride. A legend.
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if there is something ignorant about conservatism /liberalism why so afraid to show it to us? This is a debate site not a name calling site. Does a liberal know the difference?
 
KevinKohler said:
Nah.

That title belongs to Navy Pride. A legend.
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Conman isn't even in the same solar system as NP. Meaning... NP was better in every regard.
 
maxparrish said:
… Lastly, no economist today believes FDR's policies in these instances were beneficial. ...
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Maxparrish, I don’t know what specific policies or acts of FDR’s administrations you referred to. when you wrote of “FDR's policies in these instances”.
Similar to ladies hemlines and popularly accepted psychology concepts, economic concepts are subject to the changing fashions. Even with the advantages of hindsight, I perceive most economists now still consider FDR’s administrations and policies as were and continue to be economically net beneficial for our nation. Much of the remaining world have and continue to benefit because they followed us. It seems that its we who have strayed from the course set by his administrations.
Respectfully, Supposn
 
danielpalos said:
I don't take right wingers seriously about Capitalism with our over thirty year long, Social War on Poverty.
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Does the fact that we are fighting poverty today and have had poverty afflicting many since before records in history could be written reveal to you anything?

You seem to have very strongly held beliefs on poverty.

Please tell me what causes poverty and what will solve the causes and eliminate the problem.

Whatever the causes and solutions you list might be, please account for the 7 million person reduction of those in need of SNAP benefits since Trump took office.

Also, please, incorporate the concepts of self help, personal responsibility and societal demands on the individual to contribute to the greater good.
 
jpn said:
View attachment 67271615

What "sounds" are you listening to? No wait, I know already.
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Don't you just hate it when a poster edits your words for no other reason than to change the meaning and then presents them as if they have not been edited?
 
code1211 said:
Don't you just hate it when a poster edits your words for no other reason than to change the meaning and then presents them as if they have not been edited?
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Happens on here.

And when they snippet small bits to intentionally misrepresent the actual context of the poster they are trying to discredit..

There are 3-4 people on here who I won't name that have done it.
 
jpn said:
The US used to be a nation with great income mobility. It was really true that hard work with a little luck could pull you out of poverty. It's still true, but less so today than yesterday, and less so here than in most other developed nations. Yes indeed, oligarchs are making a comeback.
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Don't you just hate it when a poster edits your words for no other reason than to change the meaning and then presents them as if they have not been changed?
 
James972 said:
if there is something ignorant about conservatism /liberalism why so afraid to show it to us? This is a debate site not a name calling site. Does a liberal know the difference?
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Well, for starters, trickle down economics...that is, the concept that cutting taxes for the wealthy "job creators", has not only been proven to not work, admitted so by Allen Greenspan...

But the folks who invented it, Chicago school economists, ideas and policies are so disastrous to the countries they've tried them in, that it should be labeled as a weapon of mass destruction.

Google "the brick".

Read it. Become educated.
 
James972 said:
yes were sinking I know under the weight of libcommieism.
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What about the lizard people? If you're just going to make **** up, I demand that you put equal blame on the lizard people!
 
I'm Supposn said:
Maxparrish, I don’t know what specific policies or acts of FDR’s administrations you referred to. when you wrote of “FDR's policies in these instances”.
Similar to ladies hemlines and popularly accepted psychology concepts, economic concepts are subject to the changing fashions. Even with the advantages of hindsight, I perceive most economists now still consider FDR’s administrations and policies as were and continue to be economically net beneficial for our nation. Much of the remaining world have and continue to benefit because they followed us. It seems that its we who have strayed from the course set by his administrations.
Respectfully, Supposn
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The New Deal and the Great Depression (Economist's View); The New Deal and the Great Depression II (Grasping Reality).

The nicest thing I can say about the assertion that Roosevelt prolonged the Great Depression is that it is a gross exaggeration of minor, short term, policies and misses the big picture (reality). I'll stick with the nicest thing, as it is a side point anyway. But asserting that "most economists" believe anything is almost always hyperbole, and virtually always wrong.
 
code1211 said:
Does the fact that we are fighting poverty today and have had poverty afflicting many since before records in history could be written reveal to you anything?

You seem to have very strongly held beliefs on poverty.

Please tell me what causes poverty and what will solve the causes and eliminate the problem.

Whatever the causes and solutions you list might be, please account for the 7 million person reduction of those in need of SNAP benefits since Trump took office.

Also, please, incorporate the concepts of self help, personal responsibility and societal demands on the individual to contribute to the greater good.
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It tells me capitalism sucks at solving simple poverty. Socialism can ensure full employment of capital resources with the ready reserve labor force. Capitalism only alleges full employment with a natural rate of unemployment. Full employment of capital resources is just that, not capitalism's "fakery" for the bottom line.

We already have the legal and physical infrastructure in our Republic.

The right wing complains due to the potential social Horror, that the Poor may benefit under Capitalism.
 
code1211 said:
Don't you just hate it when a poster edits your words for no other reason than to change the meaning and then presents them as if they have not been edited?
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What are you talking about???
 
code1211 said:
Don't you just hate it when a poster edits your words for no other reason than to change the meaning and then presents them as if they have not been changed?
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What are you talking about? Are you saying I selectively edited one of your posts to misrepresent it? Which one?
 
jpn said:
What are you talking about? Are you saying I selectively edited one of your posts to misrepresent it? Which one?
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I think it was a confession from a troll.
 
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