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Thread: Poverty is about mindset !!!

  1. #31
    User Court Jester's Avatar
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    Re: Poverty is about mindset !!!

    In this country you don't even need to be that ambitious to end up reasonably successful, it's pretty easy in fact.
    That being said, making poor life choices will ALWAYS get in the way of even the most unambitous person's ability
    to get into the middle class.

    drug use
    choices to participate in crime
    pregnancy
    credit card debt
    failure to take advantage of free education
    not exercising delayed gratification
    entitled victimhood thinking




    all a recipe for being poor
    Ignorance of your rights is no excuse.

  2. #32
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    Re: Poverty is about mindset !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesmoke View Post
    It is simply unrealistic to not pay living wages and expect Americans to get by without too much struggle and sacrifice. THAT’S unrealistic.

    It’s unrealistic to pay for the “safety net” of golden balloon lifts to the rich and corps to fly higher while refusing those with the least more than mere crumbs from the pie of wealth distribution that Trump gave away to his buddies.

    Real median household income, besides per capita, is a much better indicator of how well Americans are doing by income than measuring by wages. It is not unusual for wages to go up and hours worked to go down, resulting in no real gain.

    You keep avoiding the fact that wealth distribution favors the rich and large corps. I don’t even know what your position is on that. At least you know where I stand. Please let me know your position on that subject. Spam not necessary.
    Actually, I do not know where you stand until you define what you mean by a "living wage" - keeping in mind that household size and the number of workers in a household vary. I agree with you that the median household income is an important factor, but person A becoming rich does not cause person B to become poor.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #33
    Guru bomberfox's Avatar
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    Re: Poverty is about mindset !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by swing_voter View Post
    It's pretty easy to set some goals and follow them.

    Military > GI Bill > education > good job

    For example. It's just some of our sub cultures don't favor education, or the military for that matter.
    Lots of people are ineligible for service due to things outside their control.

  4. #34
    Guru bomberfox's Avatar
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    Re: Poverty is about mindset !!!

    Is a homeless vet just someone who doesnt have the right mentality? Or someone treated as a disposable cog after risking their lives?

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    Re: Poverty is about mindset !!!

    Last edited by beancounter; 11-08-19 at 04:08 PM.
    If you have to resort to insults, name calling, ad hominem attacks, straw men, red herrings, appeals to authority, and other dirty debate tactics, the veracity of you argument is questionable.

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    Re: Poverty is about mindset !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Court Jester View Post
    In this country you don't even need to be that ambitious to end up reasonably successful, it's pretty easy in fact.
    That being said, making poor life choices will ALWAYS get in the way of even the most unambitous person's ability
    to get into the middle class.

    drug use
    choices to participate in crime
    pregnancy
    credit card debt
    failure to take advantage of free education
    not exercising delayed gratification
    entitled victimhood thinking




    all a recipe for being poor
    Although there is some truth to the list of ways to screw up your life, and I certainly agree many do just that, I would argue that most of us on this forum have been given more opportunity than most poor people. Be it learning a work ethic or being given a career path to follow or even a few bucks to buy that first house or car or even the clothes worn to that first job interview, we've all caught breaks that helped us succeed.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but a lot of people do not even get that much. And, yes, what we've had was indeed a head start.
    “The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.“
    -George Orwell, 1984

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    Professor Hamish Howl's Avatar
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    Re: Poverty is about mindset !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Poverty needs to be better defined in order to discuss it. In its most basic terms, poverty is having an (annual household?) income below some threshold, for example the federal poverty level (FPL).

    2019 Poverty Guidelines | ASPE

    Let's use an example of a single person working full-time and earning $10/hour ($20K/year). As a single person they are not in poverty (below the FPL). Add a (non-working) spouse and their "household" is still not in poverty. Add one (or more) dependent child and suddenly they (or rather their household) are in poverty.

    At least on paper that is the way it works. But add in the various "safety net" programs and that (3 or 4 person) "household" is making 40% or more over their stated income without anyone working for a higher wage or working any more hours. Medicaid alone adds (or makes unnecessary) about $8K/year. Of course, to supply those "safety net" benefits means reducing the (net) pay of others and/or increasing the cost of everything that those in poverty must buy.
    That is a valid description, I suppose.

    I define poverty as "missing two paychecks means you eat out of dumpsters."
    What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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    Re: Poverty is about mindset !!!

    My personal experience in research has been that social phenomena tend to be complicated in large part because multiple forces drive outcomes concurrently. And the relationships between all those factors is not always intuitive, assuming you bother to think seriously about them.

    The problem with discussing poverty and success, regardless of how you define them, is that many people take radical positions such as blaming all of it on the individual or on their environment. The discussion quickly takes a moralizing turn which is neither scientific nor useful. Of course, if you're trying to sincerely offer advice to someone who has a hard time, it's probably better for them to exaggerate how much they can actually improve their own lives. Shoot for the moon and you will miss, sure, but you will be a hell of a lot further than if you were aiming for the tree next door. While I recognize that there is something valuable about treating things from the point of view of what you, personally, could do, it fails as an explanation of human behavior.

    Seriously... Think about it for a minute. You have millions of people in the US only. Can you believe you will find approximate measures of laziness and it's going to be enough to explain everything that is systematic about poverty? Please. Get your head out of your a**.

    Moreover, if you're concerned with poverty as a social problem, you should wonder if something could be modified so that fewer people adopt a poor attitude, make poor choices or become exposed to certain types of problems. As in just about everything, there might be some things that work better than others. I am not sure finger pointing and insults work.

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    Re: Poverty is about mindset !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FinnFox View Post


    I like to know what you think about poor people? Are they just stupid and lazy? And rich guys are all smart ones? (having lot of money is proof of being hard-working genius?)

    I can imagine fancy ways to reduce poverty by making their lives even more miserable and increasing desperation to level where suicide is lovely relief. So that way poor people have built-in fix in their "bubble" and it's shrinking naturally every day.

    Another way is just jail them all, make it illegal to be poor - so you can clean up your streets and let shiny stuff shine.

    or

    Socialist way is increasing equality by setting up needed standards / rights (education, healthcare, bernie stuff), but that isn't popular way to do it - I guess.
    The fact is that in America many (if not most) people who are poor is because of certain decisions they have made in their life, who their parents are and how they were raised. Think of a sixteen year old girl who is living in poverty and then gets pregnant. How likely is it that this person is going to climb up the economic ladder and raise their child with the values and motivation to climb up the economic ladder. There is absolutely something to be said for individual responsibility.

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    Re: Poverty is about mindset !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Then do so, address the issues... we’ll wait.
    Graduate high school

    Get a job

    Get married (if you want kids)


    =highest probability of staying out of poverty.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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