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Automation

I

I'm Supposn

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Automation:

Automation reduces per unit costs and/or improves quality and/or consistency of those products’ quality. It has not and will not be to USA’s net economic detriment.

Automation tools, assembly lines, and methods require labor to design, create, maintain, and repair them even if they may not require many people to operate them.
Automated production, no less than the production of any other services or goods products, requires production supporting labor and enterprises.

Automation has always been, and I expect it will continue to be to our nation's best interest. To the extent that labor's costs are less, introduction of automation is delayed. This is typical of our world's poorest economies.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
I'm Supposn said:
Automation:

Automation reduces per unit costs and/or improves quality and/or consistency of those products’ quality. It has not and will not be to USA’s net economic detriment.

Automation tools, assembly lines, and methods require labor to design, create, maintain, and repair them even if they may not require many people to operate them.
Automated production, no less than the production of any other services or goods products, requires production supporting labor and enterprises.

Automation has always been, and I expect it will continue to be to our nation's best interest. To the extent that labor's costs are less, introduction of automation is delayed. This is typical of our world's poorest economies.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Automation rocks. I've been working in the field for....wow! A long time. 40 years.
 
James972 said:
so does every tool invented in the last 3000 years. So??????????????????????
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Automation, in essence, is simply the integration of many tools.
 
I'm Supposn said:
Automation:

Automation reduces per unit costs and/or improves quality and/or consistency of those products’ quality. It has not and will not be to USA’s net economic detriment.

Automation tools, assembly lines, and methods require labor to design, create, maintain, and repair them even if they may not require many people to operate them.
Automated production, no less than the production of any other services or goods products, requires production supporting labor and enterprises.

Automation has always been, and I expect it will continue to be to our nation's best interest. To the extent that labor's costs are less, introduction of automation is delayed. This is typical of our world's poorest economies.

Respectfully, Supposn
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... and?
 
OrphanSlug said:
... and?
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I'll run with it :)

Automation is not a boogie man, and it certainly can employ millions of people in high paying professions. I'd much rather see our country full of robot programmers, technicians, engineers and other highly skilled professionals than a hundred guys standing up and down an assembly line tightening screws.
 
I'm Supposn said:
... Automation has always been, and I expect it will continue to be to our nation's best interest. To the extent that labor's costs are less, introduction of automation is delayed. This is typical of our world's poorest economies. ...
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OrphanSlug said:
... and?
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I posted this thread, “automation”, in response to nonsensical assertions that the federal minimum wage should be eliminated because it encourages increasing introduction of automation within our nation.
Respectfully, Supposn
 
I'm Supposn said:
nonsensical assertions that the federal minimum wage should be eliminated because it encourages increasing introduction of automation within our nation.
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obviously the more certain workers cost( in this case minimum wage workers) the more incentive to replace them with machines. And????????????
 
I'm Supposn said:
I posted this thread, “automation”, in response to nonsensical assertions that the federal minimum wage should be eliminated because it encourages increasing introduction of automation within our nation. ...
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James972 said:
obviously the more certain workers cost( in this case minimum wage workers) the more incentive to replace them with machines. And????????????
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that's to our nation's economic advantage. James972, would you believe there are some fools that do not understand that? Thank you for mentioning it. Respectfully, Supposn
 
James972 said:
that???? what is "that"?????????????
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Replacing low-skilled jobs with machines and developing more people to take on high-skilled jobs, obviously.
 
calamity said:
Replacing low-skilled jobs with machines and developing more people to take on high-skilled jobs, obviously.
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Govt can do that easily by raising the wages for low skilled jobs, but that would leave a lot of unemployment. Dumb liberal idea right??
 
James972 said:
Govt can do that easily by raising the wages for low skilled jobs, but that would leave a lot of unemployment. Dumb liberal idea right??
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I prefer they raise wages on low skilled jobs---it means more incentive to automate.

The biggest hit my industry had came in the 90's when manufacturing began to be sent to cheap labor countries. Automation systems were growing rather complex, and we hoped to have fully autonomous plants all round the country by century's end. Mexico, China, Brazil, and Thailand put an end to that dream. :(
 
calamity said:
I'll run with it :)

Automation is not a boogie man, and it certainly can employ millions of people in high paying professions. I'd much rather see our country full of robot programmers, technicians, engineers and other highly skilled professionals than a hundred guys standing up and down an assembly line tightening screws.
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But we have to have the political will to invest in easily available training.
A guy who used to stand up and down an assembly line "tightening screws" isn't usually going to have ten or twelve thousand set aside for school. And if he does have any money set aside, it's to put food on the table and keep the lights on.

We can only deal with automation and the resulting technological employment by making it easy for displaced workers to get new training, otherwise they join the unemployed and eventually, the ranks of the homeless.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
But we have to have the political will to invest in easily available training.
A guy who used to stand up and down an assembly line "tightening screws" isn't usually going to have ten or twelve thousand set aside for school. And if he does have any money set aside, it's to put food on the table and keep the lights on.

We can only deal with automation and the resulting technological employment by making it easy for displaced workers to get new training, otherwise they join the unemployed and eventually, the ranks of the homeless.
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Agreed. A big mistake this country makes is not investing in education. It's probably one of the biggest flaws of Right Wing thinking.
 
Don't forget the reality that with automation, you decrease the number of human labor hours.

If I replace 20 cashiers with 15 self check outs, I don't need to hire 20 self check out technicians. Its simple math, and you extrapolate that across the entire economy, you end up with fewer labor hours needed.

What do those labor hours do?
 
KevinKohler said:
Don't forget the reality that with automation, you decrease the number of human labor hours.

If I replace 20 cashiers with 15 self check outs, I don't need to hire 20 self check out technicians. Its simple math, and you extrapolate that across the entire economy, you end up with fewer labor hours needed.

What do those labor hours do?
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Hopefully something better than mindlessly canning items for a cash register. Or, would you rather we slow that down to and go back to reading each price tag and keying in the numbers?

We can go back to mechanical cans registers and horse and carriage too...but, I doubt anyone would really want to. :roll:
 
calamity said:
Hopefully something better than mindlessly canning items for a cash register. Or, would you rather we slow that down to and go back to reading each price tag and keying in the numbers?

We can go back to mechanical cans registers and horse and carriage too...but, I doubt anyone would really want to. :roll:
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That's regression.

So, what do we do with all of this unpaid labor hours? More free time for more people, yes...but less paid work, as well.

Our current economic system doesn't handle that well.
 
KevinKohler said:
That's regression.

So, what do we do with all of this unpaid labor hours? More free time for more people, yes...but less paid work, as well.

Our current economic system doesn't handle that well.
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I'm not a Right Winger. So, I have a solution. We tax the capital gained from automation, and spread the wealth around, hopefully with positive outcomes.
 
calamity said:
I'm not a Right Winger. So, I have a solution. We tax the capital gained from automation, and spread the wealth around, hopefully with positive outcomes.
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I agree.

We need some sort of system that offers a job guarantee, with wages. Tax capital gains and wealth at a specific rate beyond a set amount, tbd by each state, and each state uses that money to ensure a wage guarantee, or a living standard, etc.

With the caveat that that money, or those benefits, must be earned if you are able bodied, doing low skill work involving state/town infrastructure and beautification.
 
I'm Supposn said:
I posted this thread, “automation”, in response to nonsensical assertions that the federal minimum wage should be eliminated because it encourages increasing introduction of automation within our nation.
Respectfully, Supposn
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Okay.

Our issue is still going to be the same with the inverse, or raising federal minimum wage to whatever number. It is reasonable to conclude that automations will continue no matter what labor costs are, but it is also reasonable to conclude that another artificial inflation of those costs will provoke businesses to respond perhaps that much faster with automations making way for needing less labor. We saw this with both the automotive and major appliance industries to the point that automations *and* offshore labor costs ended up being the answer, similar story with basic materials productions.

Our challenge is the assumption that eliminating federal minimum wage will mean automations will stop, we already know that is not a very reasonable conclusion. Take most of the top 10 employers today, arguably 6-7 of which pay at the lower income quintiles. Removing federal minimum wage does not mean those employers will quit looking at these employee less options to doing business.
 
KevinKohler said:
I agree.

We need some sort of system that offers a job guarantee, with wages. Tax capital gains and wealth at a specific rate beyond a set amount, tbd by each state, and each state uses that money to ensure a wage guarantee, or a living standard, etc.

With the caveat that that money, or those benefits, must be earned if you are able bodied, doing low skill work involving state/town infrastructure and beautification.
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I'd pay people to continue education as well, providing them with a cost of living stipend, perhaps even tying the amount to GPA.
 
calamity said:
I'd pay people to continue education as well, providing them with a cost of living stipend, perhaps even tying the amount to GPA.
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But education for what? Would we tie a greater level of funding to STEM majors, or technical training, over the arts?
 
KevinKohler said:
But education for what? Would we tie a greater level of funding to STEM majors, or technical training, over the arts?
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Arts might be where the work is. After all, someone will have money. And, those people will want things which only the "arts" can supply. So, I hesitate frowning too much on Arts and Humanities.

Besides, I have no intention of creating a bunch of STEM-bots. We need people who can think outside the box too.
 
calamity said:
Arts might be where the work is. After all, someone will have money. And, those people will want things which only the "arts" can supply. So, I hesitate frowning too much on Arts and Humanities.

Besides, I have no intention of creating a bunch of STEM-bots. We need people who can think outside the box too.
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And that's my conundrum with education.


Who is qualified to decide what we should get to learn?
 
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