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Thread: Federal minimum wage rate.

  1. #21
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    Re: Federal minimum wage rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnfrmClevelan View Post
    Again, you are basing your argument on a bunch of rosy assumptions. Minimum/low wage workers don't have the opportunity to move around looking for better jobs. They have to be close by. He needs the time to look and interview. He may need the availability of public transportation. Your husband made the main income, freeing you up to look around - in a car, I'm assuming. He could make rent while you took the time to look for better jobs. You had health insurance in between jobs.

    The reality for people who aren't so blessed is that they hang onto their low-paying jobs for as long as they can, until circumstance interferes. Sickness, a broken car they can't afford to repair, divorce, eviction - these are the things that poor people have to deal with, and they very often cost them their jobs. It's not just a matter of climbing the ladder for most.
    I'm sorry but I see the responsibility for our own welfare as being our personal responsibility. Once we give government the authority and power to determine what welfare the people must have, a few will benefit, most will be hindered in their ability to pursue their own dreams, and our liberties will be severely curtailed. In the end all but the most elite--those selected by the elite--will benefit. Everybody else loses.

    I will go with my point of view as the one most beneficial for all. I cannot accept the socialist, even communist and totalitarian agendas of the Progressive as anything a free people can embrace.
    --Nobody deserves to be automatically judged guilty just because somebody accuses them. The accusation itself could be the crime.
    --"I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  2. #22
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    Re: Federal minimum wage rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnfrmClevelan View Post
    If I assemble 100 widgets/day, and the unemployed laborer is also capable of assembling 100 widgets/day, my employer is going to pay me the minimum wage, and no more. It doesn't matter if his profit from those widgets is $5 or $5000.



    Yes, good employees are worth a premium. But when you are talking about the great bulk of unskilled labor, that premium is either small or nonexistent. Like I said before, an employee's "worth" to his employer merely sets the ceiling of his compensation. Employers make their decisions based on profits.



    That is a very nice bedtime story about job mobility, but it has little to do with the real world. There is a long line of unemployed people willing to push a broom, even for minimum wage. Your assumptions are all based on the idea that everybody gets what they deserve, and those who are unemployed are only unemployed because they are lazier than the guy who has a job. The reality is more complicated. There are not enough jobs to go around, and labor is not as mobile as a bushel of corn. They are tied down by leases, lack of transportation, tied to present health insurance, etc.
    we are at 3.5% unemployment

    we are as close to FULL employment as it gets

    there are thousands of jobs going unfilled right now because employers LIKE ME cant find a person with the skills he needs

    but skills is still the key....the more you have the easier it is to find employment....and the more you will earn

    same as always....supply and demand controls the market
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

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  3. #23
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    Re: Federal minimum wage rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnfrmClevelan View Post
    This begs the question - Why do you work at all? Why is it necessary for both adults in a household to earn enough money to get by? That wasn't always the case. When spouses entered the workforce, it merely increased the pool of available labor - which helps to keep wages down.

    Try thinking of five things that our (mostly conservative) government has done in the past 50 years or so that improves the lot of labor. Then think of what has been done to improve the lot of ownership (who never needed the help in the first place).
    people dont have to have both working...they choose that to have a BETTER quality of life

    they want the nicer house, nicer cars, better education for their kids....

    my wife didnt work....we made it on one paycheck....it can be done

    not easy and the earner has to be a GOOD earner, but it can be done
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #24
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    Re: Federal minimum wage rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    The current government has produced a tax code and has eliminated enough unnecessary regulation to encourage free enterprise to bring home working and venture capital and to put sidelined working and venture capital back to work. That has created an economy in which pretty much all who want to work are able to do so. THAT is what government is supposed to do. It has promoted a free private economy that offers much more opportunity for the people to improve their own circumstances. It has produced a seller's market for labor.

    That is all the federal government is constitutionally authorized to do. Or should do.
    The government is constitutionally authorized to work for the welfare of the people. It is not designed to benefit businesses, then delegate the people's welfare to the business sector. Which, unfortunately, is exactly what Republicans have been pushing for for decades.

    Healthcare - left largely up to market forces. Which is why our healthcare stinks, and millions are left without coverage.

    Pensions - left largely up to market forces. Which is why so many retirees end up in poverty.

    Environment - protections have been eroded to benefit businesses, which is why pollution is a problem and global warming is still a huge threat.

    You are still buying into the fairy tale that, if we just leave them alone even more, Big Business will save the day.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Federal minimum wage rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    people dont have to have both working...they choose that to have a BETTER quality of life

    they want the nicer house, nicer cars, better education for their kids....

    my wife didnt work....we made it on one paycheck....it can be done

    not easy and the earner has to be a GOOD earner, but it can be done
    It used to be that people were paid enough, even in low-skill jobs, to buy homes, cars, and raise a family. LOTS of the labor force was in a pretty good place, not just middle management on up. It can still be done, but it's uncommon. And that is a problem. It's a problem for the whole economy, because demand suffers for it.
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  6. #26
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    Re: Federal minimum wage rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    give me a number
    what does that equate to right now
    CPI Inflation Calculator

    the federal minimum wage rate in February 1968 was $1.60 per hour and it is now $7.25 per hour. If the minimum wage had kept up with inflation. It would have been $11.96 in April-2019.
    (7.25 – 11.96) / (11.96) = - 4.71/11.96 = - 0.3938
    The federal minimum wage has declined by more than 39% since its peak of February-1968.

    The $1.60/hour minimum wasn't a great boon to lower-wage workers. Employees were not the undeserving poor bleeding corporations dry. We all do better when we all do better. If our minimum wage rate's purchasing power had been greater, our median wage's, our corporate incomes would have all been much greater.

    A quarter of $11.96 is less than $3. An increase of 25% within more than a half-century is not an unreasonable expectation. But rather than increasing the minimum's purchasing power by 25%, the U.S. Congress has permitted it to decline more than 39%.
    A $15 minimum wage rate's is not unreasonable. And increasing it gradually by 12.5% is not unreasonable. The minimum's never been enacted suddenly. I suppose There'd be a delay of of no less than a half year or a year before the first increase of 73 cents per at very least would be enacted.

    I don't presume to predict how many years would pass until the Consumer price index would increase to achieve that 125% of February-1968 CPI.

    Respectfully, Supposn

  7. #27
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    Re: Federal minimum wage rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    As the minimum wage goes up, does the salary of the ones making more than minimum wage go up as well? If not, one could say you are devaluing your higher paid workers.

    example: entry level worker is making $10/hr. Shift manager is making $15/hr.
    entry level worker wages are raised to $15/hr. What should the shift manager be making?
    What should the CEO be making? $150/hour? $1500/hour? More? The distribution of wages and salaries is becoming more and more skewed to upper management and ownership. That, too, hurts demand. There is no good reason why they should be making 100x or 1000x what lower level employees are earning.
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    Re: Federal minimum wage rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnfrmClevelan View Post
    It used to be that people were paid enough, even in low-skill jobs, to buy homes, cars, and raise a family. LOTS of the labor force was in a pretty good place, not just middle management on up. It can still be done, but it's uncommon. And that is a problem. It's a problem for the whole economy, because demand suffers for it.
    well...see we have a number of problems

    first off

    safety....it is required in everything we sell here in the US now...and because of those safety standards, our cars cost 30-40% than other countries

    we no longer build 1000-1200sq ft houses....why? because again of regulations and bureaucracy...not enough profit in it for the builders

    so everything we buy big ticket items is more expensive...because the government wants it that way

    so maybe it isnt the wages....maybe it is what the standards are now....

    but....if your goal is to own a home and your skill is to roll items through a POS cashier machine, and then take cash or credit card....you are going to be disappointed
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  9. #29
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    Re: Federal minimum wage rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnfrmClevelan View Post
    What should the CEO be making? $150/hour? $1500/hour? More? The distribution of wages and salaries is becoming more and more skewed to upper management and ownership. That, too, hurts demand. There is no good reason why they should be making 100x or 1000x what lower level employees are earning.
    why did you deflect, and not answer the question

    if you are giving everyone raises...up to what point do the raises go?

    new min go to $ 15

    so the fry cook who was at $ 8 gets a jum of $ 7 an hour

    what happens to the cashier who was at $ 10...does she stay at $ 15...she has more skills than the fry cook

    what about the shift supervisor who was at $ 13...how much does he make now....

    And on, and on, and on it goes.....where does it stop?

    Big changes in min wage help no one but the tax man....who collects more

    and they hurt everyone on fixed incomes who never see their COLA raises till well after the inflation has kicked their ass

    we need a small raise in min wage....small to approx $ 9 bucks....nothing more
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  10. #30
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    Re: Federal minimum wage rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnfrmClevelan View Post
    What should the CEO be making? $150/hour? $1500/hour? More? The distribution of wages and salaries is becoming more and more skewed to upper management and ownership. That, too, hurts demand. There is no good reason why they should be making 100x or 1000x what lower level employees are earning.
    Your response is basically moving the goal post.

    That really does not answer my question regarding the workers. So what happens to the shift supervisor? Do they get a comparable rate increase or just the entry level workers?
    I do believe some CEO's are overpaid. If the workers get a raise, the CEO should not automatically get a similar raise in most cases.

    My question was to address the common workers. Not the Store owner / Manager positions.
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