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The problem of Capitalism

Do you agree that the main problem of Capitalism is of moral nature?

  • Total voters
    36
  • Poll closed .
marke said:
Official documents from Federal Reserve Board meetings clearly show the 'adjustment' is coming. We just don't yet know when and how bad it is going to be. I suspect it will come before Trump is out of office so liberals cam blame the years in coming disaster on Trump.
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A good point
 
FreedomFromAll said:
I do not agree that there is a problem with capitalism. But your poll wants me to say that there is. this tells me that you are just here to bash capitalism etc. That and you just spewed leftist conspiracy theories.
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I never mentioned conspiracy theories and this kind of stuff. I don't believe in it anyway.
 
stan1990 said:
I never mentioned conspiracy theories and this kind of stuff. I don't believe in it anyway.
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In your OP you went out of your way to portray corruption as capitalism. Its the same strategy that Karl Marx and just every leftist used since him. The conspiracy theory is that the rich are organized to screw the poor out of their money.
 
stan1990 said:
The plantation owners rather destroy the coffee than sell it at a discounted price regardless of the Great Depression.
End
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Typically this is not what happens.

If they can, any exporter adjusts themselves to the market-price wherever they try to sell. During the Great Recession most people were not buying even coffee. And Brazil could not compete at the lower end (due to shipping costs) with coffee-growers of which the production was physically closer to the US ...
 
marke said:
Official documents from Federal Reserve Board meetings clearly show the 'adjustment' is coming. We just don't yet know when and how bad it is going to be. I suspect it will come before Trump is out of office so liberals cam blame the years in coming disaster on Trump.
Click to expand...

What makes you think Trump is NOT being blamed for the fact that he is an incompetent ass who should be thrown out of office. But that would take a great deal of emotional strife (in Congress) to do so.

So people just figure let's grin-'n-bear-it another 20 months of this pothole-of-a-PotUS.

The real question is this: Despite a good economy, the US is one of the most socioeconomic unfair nations on earth. What do we want to do about it!?!

And the dreadful answer is (maybe): Just piss-'n-moan a lot about it but do nothing to change the fundamental dysfunction ...
 
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FreedomFromAll said:
I do not agree that there is a problem with capitalism. But your poll wants me to say that there is. this tells me that you are just here to bash capitalism etc. That and you just spewed leftist conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...

You may wish to deny it, but the facts are against you. Comparatively, there is a great distinction between the US and the rest of world when it comes to Income Disparity. (And reducing upper-income taxation does not remedy the problem in the least!)

There's a lot worth bashing regarding America's version of capitalism. For instance the gnawing Income Disparity that is an enormous wrong* (especially when compared with other countries of a similar economic structure).

*See here: World Distribution of Wealth by Country -
or here: https://data.oecd.org/chart/5vu6
 
Lafayette said:
You may wish to deny it, but the facts are against you. Comparatively, there is a great distinction between the US and the rest of world when it comes to Income Disparity. (And reducing upper-income taxation does not remedy the problem in the least!)

There's a lot worth bashing regarding America's version of capitalism. For instance the gnawing Income Disparity that is an enormous wrong* (especially when compared with other countries of a similar economic structure).

*See here: World Distribution of Wealth by Country -
or here: https://data.oecd.org/chart/5vu6
Click to expand...

Im not sure why you want me to take an argument that I did not make?
 
Lafayette said:
What makes you think Trump is NOT being blamed for the fact that he is an incompetent ass who should be thrown out of office. But that would take a great deal of emotional strife (in Congress) to do so.

So people just figure let's grin-'n-bear-it another 20 months of this pothole-of-a-PotUS.

The real question is this: Despite a good economy, the US is one of the most socioeconomic unfair nations on earth. What do we want to do about it!?!

And the dreadful answer is (maybe): Just piss-'n-moan a lot about it but do nothing to change the fundamental dysfunction ...
Click to expand...

There are a large number of unhappy democrats in America who hate Trump and conservatives. They call us names like ignorant, deplorable, backwards, flat earthers and other nonsense bigoted and racist false accusations. That is not unusual since they lost the 2016 election.
 
Lafayette said:
Typically this is not what happens.

If they can, any exporter adjusts themselves to the market-price wherever they try to sell. During the Great Recession most people were not buying even coffee. And Brazil could not compete at the lower end (due to shipping costs) with coffee-growers of which the production was physically closer to the US ...
Click to expand...

The situation sometimes required you to lose money and stay in the market for better times. It's all about minimizing loses not being competitive.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
In your OP you went out of your way to portray corruption as capitalism. Its the same strategy that Karl Marx and just every leftist used since him. The conspiracy theory is that the rich are organized to screw the poor out of their money.
Click to expand...

Rich people misused Capitalism; this was my point. The reality is that rich people used the system to enrich themselves on account of the poor. It is the reality, not a conspiracy theory.
 
THE CLUB OF SUPER-RICH COUNTRIES

FreedomFromAll said:
Im not sure why you want me to take an argument that I did not make?
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Was the following a misquote from you?
I do not agree that there is a problem with capitalism. But your poll wants me to say that there is. this tells me that you are just here to bash capitalism etc. That and you just spewed leftist conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...

The problem is not capitalism per se in America. It is the manner in which capitalism is used/operated/employed. (Capitalism is less of a theory than a financial tool. A nation must be careful what it does with its "tools".)

What is capitalism? This (from here):
An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
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What is a Social Democracy? From here, this: A slightly advanced version of the role/purpose of capitalism:
Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a liberal democratic polity and a capitalist economy. The protocols and norms used to accomplish this involve a commitment to representative and participatory democracy, measures for income redistribution and regulation of the economy in the general interest and welfare state provisions
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Do you or do you not understand the matured "role of capitalism" in a national economy ... ?

Social Democracy is the manner in which the European Union has formulated itself. That advance has not yet taken place in America - where the Replicant Party continues to reassure that nothing changes and the Real Benefit of a market-economy is to enrich even more the already very rich.

Which is why Income Disparity (look up the definition) is one of the worst of any developed capitalist economies in the world.

See that "club" (in which the US is a bonafide member) of the World's Worst Unequal countries here:
unequal-countries.jpg
 
stan1990 said:
The situation sometimes required you to lose money and stay in the market for better times. It's all about minimizing loses not being competitive.
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And not ALL ABOUT being price-competitive. It's also about product-recognition. Brazil coffee has had product-recognition (that goes back almost a century) and therefore is at a cost-premium. (And Brazil wants to keep it that way.)

Reduce your price, and you reduce your product's "recognition" by the general public. Not all shoppers are looking for the lowest-price-possible. Just most shoppers in a given market-economy.

I looked at the price of premium "Brazilian Arabica coffee"* in my local supermarket. It was twice that of the Arabica coffee that comes from Africa. Does it "cost" Brazil twice as much to produce its Arabica coffee? No, not really ...

*There are only two kinds of coffee, Arabica and Robusta. Robusta is cheaper.
 
marke said:
There are a large number of unhappy democrats in America who hate Trump and conservatives. They call us names like ignorant, deplorable, backwards, flat earthers and other nonsense bigoted and racist false accusations. That is not unusual since they lost the 2016 election.
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That was once-upon-a-time.

I suggest that most Americans are in the center nowadays. Meaning they can vote for either candidate in most elections without thinking one nano-second to which party they belong.

Having said that, I looked up the information. From here: Americans' Identification as Independents Back Up in 2017 - excerpt:
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
42% identified as independents in 2017, up from 39% in 2016
Three-point rise the largest for any year after a presidential election
Democrats maintain edge over Republicans
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Around forty-percent is a very significant margin of the electorate* ...

*The question remains nonetheless: Is this percentage reflected also in state voting? I doubt it.
 
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Lafayette said:
THE CLUB OF SUPER-RICH COUNTRIES



Was the following a misquote from you?


The problem is not capitalism per se in America. It is the manner in which capitalism is used/operated/employed. (Capitalism is less of a theory than a financial tool. A nation must be careful what it does with its "tools".)

What is capitalism? This (from here):

What is a Social Democracy? From here, this: A slightly advanced version of the role/purpose of capitalism:


Do you or do you not understand the matured "role of capitalism" in a national economy ... ?

Social Democracy is the manner in which the European Union has formulated itself. That advance has not yet taken place in America - where the Replicant Party continues to reassure that nothing changes and the Real Benefit of a market-economy is to enrich even more the already very rich.

Which is why Income Disparity (look up the definition) is one of the worst of any developed capitalist economies in the world.

See that "club" (in which the US is a bonafide member) of the World's Worst Unequal countries here:
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/imaOTE]



Just stop with the bait and switch bs of talking about unfettered unregulated capitalism and imply thats what America has. We are far, far from that type of capitalism. It should be noted that despite you going on about Social Democracy, you are using the same exact propaganda that leftist use, its dishonest and will never win me over. And seriously just stop the splaining crap. I am sure that you made some assumption about me, but you are ignorant of what I actually know and what my position is. Basically you jumped on me because I said that I had no problem with capitalism. I know what Income Disparity is I do not need to ****ing look it up. I also know what corruption is, and that is the problem that needs fixed. We do not need a new system.

Social Democracy has its own problems. You guys should work those out before you act all high and mighty.
Click to expand...
 
stan1990 said:
Rich people misused Capitalism; this was my point. The reality is that rich people used the system to enrich themselves on account of the poor. It is the reality, not a conspiracy theory.
Click to expand...

Yes some rich people did, but it isnt an organized giant conspiracy theory. Given liberty every system will be misused. The only way to actually stop it is totalitarian regimes, and that far worse. Of course we could do better but thats an entire different can of worms.
 
Lafayette said:
That was once-upon-a-time.

I suggest that most Americans are in the center nowadays. Meaning they can vote for either candidate in most elections without thinking one nano-second to which party they belong.

Having said that, I looked up the information. From here: Americans' Identification as Independents Back Up in 2017 - excerpt:


Around forty-percent is a very significant margin of the electorate* ...

*The question remains nonetheless: Is this percentage reflected also in state voting? I doubt it.
Click to expand...

Democrats want kids to be allowed to vote because kids are under serious pressure from secular schools to conform to leftist liberal ideology as opposed to conservative Christian ideology.
 
marke said:
Democrats want kids to be allowed to vote because kids are under serious pressure from secular schools to conform to leftist liberal ideology as opposed to conservative Christian ideology.
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Please show an official reference to that fact from the Democrats.

"Kids"? Me arse ...
 
Lafayette said:
Please show an official reference to that fact from the Democrats.

"Kids"? Me arse ...
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Democrats are very slimy. They send kids to govt schools for brainwashing and now want them to vote at 16 to take advantage of the brainwashing sooner.
They also want to pack the court and remove the electoral college, anything to advance socialism even after it just killed 120 million.
 
stan1990 said:
The reality is that rich people used the system to enrich themselves on account of the poor. It is the reality, not a conspiracy theory.
Click to expand...

if true you would not be so afraid to present your best example of this despite being asked 5 time now!!!! What do you learn from your fear??
 
marke said:
There are a large number of unhappy democrats in America who hate Trump and conservatives. .
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But also a large number of unhappy Democrats who switched parties to vote for Trump after Democrats shipped their jobs to China and destroyed love and family in America.
 
James972 said:
But also a large number of unhappy Democrats who switched parties to vote for Trump after Democrats shipped their jobs to China and destroyed love and family in America.
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What motivates people to vote the way they do? Love of abortion? Love of government funding for self or selfish interests? Love of sin and degeneracy? Love of good moraqls and values? Love of common sense fiscal policies? A pretty face and empty head? Something else?
 
Here is my general "take" on "Capitalism":

1) Capitalism is a method of collecting resources to produce a product. In the process it fractures the process between investors, management and labor. It can be an efficient method of production, and competition can be (but is not always) a way of increasing productivity.

2) Capitalism is, inherently, "amoral" - it is neither good nor bad, but has external effects that can be socially good and bad.

3) Socialism is an alternative to capitalism, but is not well understood. The concept is that it marries "ownership" with "labor" - but still separates management from this process (in practicality). Again, it is neither moral nor immoral, it is amoral.

4) Capitalism has been described as an "engine" of an economy, but like any engine, it requires strict regulation to be functional. Adam Smith recognized this 300 years ago, and it is still true today. When out of control any engine can become very destructive indeed.

5) Left to its own devices, Capitalism will self-destruct, and take entire economies and countries with it. This has been demonstrated about once every generation - about every 20 years, give or take. It is a cyclical process. The reasons for this self-destruction are inherent in its structure: since ownership, management and labor are not coordinated well and are often in conflict; because it is premised on an impossibility in "markets" (the presumption of free availability of information about market values); its natural tendency toward monopoly - a very destructive force in economies; and its reliance on humans to operate.

6) Capitalism is an economic form, not a social or political force, and when it is married to either it becomes adulterated. Those amalgams are themselves destructive forces (e.g., totalitarianism, oligarchies).

For the foregoing reasons (and others), I - and most nations on earth - subscribe to some form of a Social Market Economy, a socioeconomic model combining a free market capitalist economic system alongside social policies that establish both fair competition within the market and a welfare state. It is the balance of the these interests that make economies both efficient and fair. Finding an appropriate balance, however, is tricky. The more recent development of Eco-Social Market Economies now describes most European nations' philosophies.

Capitalism alone is never a solution to most social issues - it operates in a completely different sphere - and we should not expect it to be "moral". It is we, as a society, who can give it moral direction.
 
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James972 said:
if true you would not be so afraid to present your best example of this despite being asked 5 time now!!!! What do you learn from your fear??
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Do you have any idea what are you talking about?
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Yes some rich people did, but it isnt an organized giant conspiracy theory. Given liberty every system will be misused. The only way to actually stop it is totalitarian regimes, and that far worse. Of course we could do better but thats an entire different can of worms.
Click to expand...

I never talk about any conspiracy theory. I don't believe in it
 
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