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Real Wealth is Decreasing

marke said:
Real wealth is directly linked to real national debt. There is no wonder Americans are becoming poorer as the debt burden raises the need for higher taxation from all quarters of the public. A family who was taxed possibly 10% in overall taxation years ago will show significant advantages over a modern family who probably pays more than 40% in overall taxes today.
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People pay less total federal taxes today than in the past generally:
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/historical-average-federal-tax-rates-all-households

The government isn't increasing taxation to pay for debt. It's just taking out more debt to pay for debt. Not saying that's a good thing, but "modern" families aren't paying more in federal taxes than they did decades ago. Certainly not a fourfold increase as you suggest.
 
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Crovax said:
A lot of prices have gone down though on electronics and consumer goods

The smallest tv you could buy in 1980 cost $400, now you can buy a small one for $75.

A basic laptop in 1992 cost $2400 now you can get one for $200
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Yummy. I didn't know you could eat TV's. Electronics have come down because of technology and being made in China. That does not mean the dollar is worth more.
 
iguanaman said:
Yummy. I didn't know you could eat TV's. Electronics have come down because of technology and being made in China. That does not mean the dollar is worth more.
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They price of everything has decreased with increased technology and globalization
 
Crovax said:
They price of everything has decreased with increased technology and globalization
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Really? So you spend the same for food as you did in 1980? You must eat a lot of Ramen noodles. :lol: The price of food has nearly tripled since 1980.

Between 1980 and 2018: Food experienced an average inflation rate of 2.86% per year. This rate of change indicates significant inflation. In other words, food costing $20 in the year 1980 would cost $58.44 in 2018 for an equivalent purchase.
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Food price history from 1980 through 2018
 
Crovax said:
They price of everything has decreased with increased technology and globalization
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Absolutely false. Child care, tuition, health care, and housing are all MUCH more expensive than they used to be. You know what's cheaper? TV's, phones, toys. The frivolities of life are cheaper. The necessities are more expensive.
 
Lakryte said:
People pay less total federal taxes today than in the past generally:
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/historical-average-federal-tax-rates-all-households

The government isn't increasing taxation to pay for debt. It's just taking out more debt to pay for debt. Not saying that's a good thing, but "modern" families aren't paying more in federal taxes than they did decades ago. Certainly not a fourfold increase as you suggest.
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Borrowing money to pay back past loans is a long practiced bad secular government Ponzi scheme habit doomed to end in disaster.
 
marke said:
Borrowing money to pay back past loans is a long practiced bad secular government Ponzi scheme habit doomed to end in disaster.
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Maybe, but that's whats happening. Taxes haven't gone up, so you can't claim they have.
 
Lakryte said:
Maybe, but that's whats happening. Taxes haven't gone up, so you can't claim they have.
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Democrats support raising taxes through the roof while continuing to promote the wasteful spending that high taxes will never be able to keep up with.
 
marke said:
Borrowing money to pay back past loans is a long practiced bad secular government Ponzi scheme habit doomed to end in disaster.
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People have been saying that about Japan for decades now. As long as the interest in manageable they're fine.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
 
phattonez said:
People have been saying that about Japan for decades now. As long as the interest in manageable they're fine.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
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It never stays fine.
 
phattonez said:
People have been saying that about Japan for decades now. As long as the interest in manageable they're fine.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
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The big democrat dream nonsense philosophy: "Where is the promise of the coming of the anti-Christ followed by the coming of the lord to judge the ungodly? For ever since we were born nothing has changed. America cannot possibly go broke by foolish money management because it has never happened before."
 
marke said:
The big democrat dream nonsense philosophy: "Where is the promise of the coming of the anti-Christ followed by the coming of the lord to judge the ungodly? For ever since we were born nothing has changed. America cannot possibly go broke by foolish money management because it has never happened before."
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People with printing presses cannot go broke. It will take a decrease in production to make their currency worthless.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
 
phattonez said:
People with printing presses cannot go broke. It will take a decrease in production to make their currency worthless.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
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Counterfeiters are eventually caught and sent to prison.
 
marke said:
Counterfeiters are eventually caught and sent to prison.
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The government isn't a counterfeiter.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
 
phattonez said:
The government isn't a counterfeiter.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
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Right. Sure. Tell that to other nations of the world currently on the dollar standard who are being screwed by the US as the US enriches itself by printing more money, lowering the dollar's worth and, consequently, the value of the money other nations have invested in the dollar.
 
marke said:
Right. Sure. Tell that to other nations of the world currently on the dollar standard who are being screwed by the US as the US enriches itself by printing more money, lowering the dollar's worth and, consequently, the value of the money other nations have invested in the dollar.
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wrong of course. USA has low inflation so nobody is losing anything really.
 
All I know is the row home my parents bought in 1955 for thirteen thousand dollars sold for one hundred twenty one thousand in 2003.
 
marke said:
Right. Sure. Tell that to other nations of the world currently on the dollar standard who are being screwed by the US as the US enriches itself by printing more money, lowering the dollar's worth and, consequently, the value of the money other nations have invested in the dollar.
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They keep taking our dollars and debt.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
 
phattonez said:
I found this nifty chart showing household wealth by year and income group. Take a look.

your-guide-to-class-warfare-in-2015-213-body-image-1423865082.jpg


For almost all households, real wealth levels are about the same as they were in the early 1980s. But here's the downside: the cost of living is far higher than it was in the 1980s. Home prices have grown much faster than inflation, and that's the biggest expense for households (and also, ironically, the biggest source of wealth for most non-wealthy households).

What does this mean? Households are actually poorer today than they were in the 1980s, possibly even further back if you include the real cost of living.

Why is it that I'm called a Communist for pointing this out? Clearly something is broken. Ignoring this won't fix it. So what's your solution?

Sent from my HTC phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
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You know the site offers an easy way to imbed URLs in you posts? My question to you is why would household wealth increase for a majority of the population without some action on their part? Wealth doesn't fall from the sky or come out of a tap on the bathtub, it has to be earned. Also, mathematically, to be in the top 1% of wealth holders you have to have a lot of wealth-100% of the population can't be in the top 1% of wealth holders. - that's all you chart shows.
 
marke said:
Democrats support raising taxes through the roof while continuing to promote the wasteful spending that high taxes will never be able to keep up with.
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At least Democrats understand higher spending costs money eventually. Republicans prefer to just go into debt and push the can down the road.
 
Lakryte said:
At least Democrats understand higher spending costs money eventually. Republicans prefer to just go into debt and push the can down the road.
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Let's sort this out. You claim republicans prefer to spend without budgetary restraints or proposed solutions to the debt crisis, but democrats prefer solidifying past wasteful spending with current funding guarantees and raising taxes to try to cover the loses. Then you admit that eventually democrats will come to their senses and realize their socialist programs are costing a whole hell of a lot of money the government does not have and will likely never be able to get no matter how high they raise the tax rates on everyone?
 
marke said:
Let's sort this out. You claim republicans prefer to spend without budgetary restraints or proposed solutions to the debt crisis, but democrats prefer solidifying past wasteful spending with current funding guarantees and raising taxes to try to cover the loses. Then you admit that eventually democrats will come to their senses and realize their socialist programs are costing a whole hell of a lot of money the government does not have and will likely never be able to get no matter how high they raise the tax rates on everyone?
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My point is that Republicans are hypocrites when it comes to the budget. Republicans claim to be against raising the deficit when Democrats propose any increase in spending, but then go ahead and increase the deficit every time they are in power. Take the Trump tax cuts, for example, increasing the debt by around 1 trillion over ten years to give more money to corporations and top income earners. If that was the projected cost of a Democratic proposal, Republicans would be calling it the end times.

The Affordable Care Act, on the other hand, is actually pretty revenue neutral. Repealing it is actually forecast to cost money, and in FY 2018 it actually had net revenue due to the tax increase provisions.

In sum, it is the Republicans who prefer to spend without budgetary restraints. Yet then they try to claim to be fiscal conservatives. What a joke!
 
Lakryte said:
My point is that Republicans are hypocrites when it comes to the budget. Republicans claim to be against raising the deficit when Democrats propose any increase in spending, but then go ahead and increase the deficit every time they are in power. Take the Trump tax cuts, for example, increasing the debt by around 1 trillion over ten years to give more money to corporations and top income earners. If that was the projected cost of a Democratic proposal, Republicans would be calling it the end times.

The Affordable Care Act, on the other hand, is actually pretty revenue neutral. Repealing it is actually forecast to cost money, and in FY 2018 it actually had net revenue due to the tax increase provisions.

In sum, it is the Republicans who prefer to spend without budgetary restraints. Yet then they try to claim to be fiscal conservatives. What a joke!
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I agree that fiscal foolishness is widespread among both democrats and republicans as well as throughout the voting public. That is no reason, however, for anyone to back continuing proposals to spend even more money we don't have to plunge us into deeper debt from which we cannot recover.

Here are reasonable 10 year cost outlays for popular programs currently being pushed by big government supporters in Washington:

1. Free college: $807 billion.
2. Social security expansion: $188 billion.
3. Single-payer healthcare: $32 trillion.
4. Minimum wage mandates and guaranteed income programs: $6.8 trillion.
5. Infrastructure: $1 trillion.
6. Student loan forgiveness: $1.4 trillion.

These numbers should alarm anyone thinking of supporting these budget-busting social programs for the sheer dangers they pose to the stability of the US economy and the very existence of the US as a nation. Senator Dirksen once said, "A billion here and a billion there and pretty soon you are talking about real money."

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/democratic-socialism-free/

Democratic Socialism: Who Knew That 'Free' Could Cost So Much?
 
bongsaway said:
All I know is the row home my parents bought in 1955 for thirteen thousand dollars sold for one hundred twenty one thousand in 2003.
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so what? fed target is for 2-3% inflation. prices and wages go up but it doesn't really hurt anybody
 
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