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Trump defies the rules of trade

Airyaman said:
Tariffs.
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A tariff is not a tax. It is an increased cost to the buyer(s) of the tariffed products.

The currently reduced gas prices nationally are not a tax cut. They are simply a decreased cost to the gas buyer(s).

There is a far larger number of Gas buyers than the various products with the tariffs. Given our life style, we're pretty much roped in to buying gas or products that are shipped using gas.
 
code1211 said:
A tariff is not a tax. It is an increased cost to the buyer(s) of the tariffed products.

The currently reduced gas prices nationally are not a tax cut. They are simply a decreased cost to the gas buyer(s).

There is a far larger number of Gas buyers than the various products with the tariffs. Given our life style, we're pretty much roped in to buying gas or products that are shipped using gas.
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https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tax

a charge usually of money imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tariff

a schedule of duties imposed by a government on imported or in some countries exported goods

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/duties

TAX
especially : a tax on imports

==============

A good comes in the country. The government applies a tariff to the good, with the proceeds coming into the government's coffers.

This is all so very basic.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/what-tariff-and-who-pays-it

What is a tariff?

A tariff is a tax on imported goods.
 
code1211 said:
A tariff is not a tax. It is an increased cost to the buyer(s) of the tariffed products.

The currently reduced gas prices nationally are not a tax cut. They are simply a decreased cost to the gas buyer(s).

There is a far larger number of Gas buyers than the various products with the tariffs. Given our life style, we're pretty much roped in to buying gas or products that are shipped using gas.
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That (lame) argument (bolded above) could be used for a sales or excise tax. A tariff is different in that it must be paid regardless of whether the imported good is ever sold (retail) and is not levied on all similar goods.
 
code1211 said:
A tariff is not a tax. It is an increased cost to the buyer(s) of the tariffed products.

The currently reduced gas prices nationally are not a tax cut. They are simply a decreased cost to the gas buyer(s).

There is a far larger number of Gas buyers than the various products with the tariffs. Given our life style, we're pretty much roped in to buying gas or products that are shipped using gas.
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.Code1211, a tariff is a tax that differs from a sales tax. Vendors are required to act as the government’s agent and collect the tax on the government’s behalf. Vendors cannot legally sell or trade unless the agree to be the government’s tax collecting agent. Vender/agents are legally and financially responsible for collecting the sales tax revenues and passing them on to the government. A reduction of the federal gasoline tax is a sales tax reduction.

Importers of products do not act as government’s tariff agent. Importers affidavits declaring what’s being imported accompany the products or they are presented to the government’s agents. The government tariff agents physically retain the imported products until the tariffs levied upon the importers are received by the government.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
I'm Supposn said:
Lafayette, USA has trade agreements, but no trade treaties. Our U.S. Constitution grants treaties, (which require 2/3 vote of U.S. Senate consent), a much higher status within federal law. There are explicit or inferred provisions within all of USA trade agreements, that provide provisions for ANY member’s withdrawing from an agreement that cannot be modified to mutual satisfaction.
Respectfully, Supposn
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The question is not whether a nation can withdraw from the WTO. It is whether the president can withdraw unilaterally
 
Lafayette said:
The Paris Climate Agreement is not a "trade treaty". It need not have gone through the WTO.
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A Treaty needs Senate approval. There is nothing in the Constitution regarding the WTO.

Because the deal arrived at by the Obama team could NEVER have gotten Senate approval, it was never presented.
 
Airyaman said:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tax

a charge usually of money imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tariff

a schedule of duties imposed by a government on imported or in some countries exported goods

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/duties

TAX
especially : a tax on imports

==============

A good comes in the country. The government applies a tariff to the good, with the proceeds coming into the government's coffers.

This is all so very basic.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/what-tariff-and-who-pays-it

What is a tariff?

A tariff is a tax on imported goods.
Click to expand...

Taxes are imposed by Congress.

If the president can impose a tariff, it is by definition, not a tax.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That (lame) argument (bolded above) could be used for a sales or excise tax. A tariff is different in that it must be paid regardless of whether the imported good is ever sold (retail) and is not levied on all similar goods.
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Well said.
 
I'm Supposn said:
.Code1211, a tariff is a tax that differs from a sales tax. Vendors are required to act as the government’s agent and collect the tax on the government’s behalf. Vendors cannot legally sell or trade unless the agree to be the government’s tax collecting agent. Vender/agents are legally and financially responsible for collecting the sales tax revenues and passing them on to the government. A reduction of the federal gasoline tax is a sales tax reduction.

Importers of products do not act as government’s tariff agent. Importers affidavits declaring what’s being imported accompany the products or they are presented to the government’s agents. The government tariff agents physically retain the imported products until the tariffs levied upon the importers are received by the government.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Only the Congress can impose a tax.
 
code1211 said:
Taxes are imposed by Congress.

If the president can impose a tariff, it is by definition, not a tax.
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My god...are you for real?
 
Code1211, you’re creating your own dictionary of definitions? For the remainder of the world, a tariff is a tax.
There’s more than a single method “to skin a cat”. Tariffs are taxes; U.S. presidents alone have temporarily imposed tariffs; those tariffs have never been successfully opposed in federal court. Anything else you wish to contribute to this facet of the discussion?

Respectfully, Supposn

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/tariff tariff
noun
1 A tax or duty to be paid on a particular class of imports or exports.
 
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Lafayette said:
There is NO SUCH THING A FREE TRADE.

Trade agreement treaties signed, sealed and delivered by the World Trade Organization specify trade tariffs. To change them unilaterally, the US would be in infraction of those agreements. Of course, Donald Dork could not care less.

From the Economist here: The threat to world trade. The rules-based system is in grave danger



Donald Dork is up to his "antics" once again. Here's a PotUS who LOST THE POPULAR-VOTE behaving like a sick kid who "owns the sandbox".

Will this nonsense ever end? Yeah, when American voters find once again their sanity and vote him out of office in the PotUS elections of November, 2019.

Let this sad episode in American history be a lesson to all when selecting future heads of government ...
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Is it really a treaty?

Was it ratified by the senate?
 
sangha said:
The question is not whether a nation can withdraw from the WTO. It is whether the president can withdraw unilaterally
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Sangha, President Carter alone exercised an international agreement’s withdrawal clause. Senator Goldwater attempted a federal court challenge to the president’s unilateral action. (The U.S. Senate itself did not formally request the President’s act be reviewed by the Supreme Court). The Supreme Court declared it to be a political matter and declined to hear the case. Similarly, President George W. Bush unilaterally withdrew USA’s participation from an ABM Treaty.

It's conceivable that some president's withdrawal of from an international agreement may so grieviously oppose the congress, so that one or both chambers will seek legal remedy in a manner that would satisfy the federal courts. Trump's just the kind of president that could do that.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
sangha said:
The question is not whether a nation can withdraw from the WTO. It is whether the president can withdraw unilaterally
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Yes, the president (meaning the US) can withdraw unilaterally.

The provision for Withdrawl is stipulated in the AGREEMENT ESTABLISHING THE
WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION

Article XV

Withdrawal

1. Any Member may withdraw from this Agreement. Such withdrawal shall apply both to this Agreement and the Multilateral Trade Agreements and shall take effect upon the expiration of six months from the date on which written notice of withdrawal is received by the Director-General of the WTO.
2. Withdrawal from a Plurilateral Trade Agreement shall be governed by the provisions of that Agreement
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code1211 said:
Taxes are imposed by Congress. If the president can impose a tariff, it is by definition, not a tax.
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Correct.

Off the Internet:
Customs or tariffs are based on the property (usually imported goods) as a state of being or ad valorem taxes and are also typically not called excise taxes.

Excise taxes are collected by producers and retailers and paid to the Internal Revenue Service or other state and/or local government tax collection agency.
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The former means the imposition is upon external imported purchases of goods/services and the latter upon internally produced and marketed goods/services.
 
code1211 said:
So your response is, "Yes."

Alrighty, then.
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congress granted the power in 1962 when it seemed unimaginable that a horrifically unqualified oaf like Trump might become president someday. congress has the power to revoke the act, and should do so immediately.
 
I'm Supposn said:
Sangha, President Carter alone exercised an international agreement’s withdrawal clause. Senator Goldwater attempted a federal court challenge to the president’s unilateral action. (The U.S. Senate itself did not formally request the President’s act be reviewed by the Supreme Court). The Supreme Court declared it to be a political matter and declined to hear the case. Similarly, President George W. Bush unilaterally withdrew USA’s participation from an ABM Treaty.

It's conceivable that some president's withdrawal of from an international agreement may so grieviously oppose the congress, so that one or both chambers will seek legal remedy in a manner that would satisfy the federal courts. Trump's just the kind of president that could do that.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Thank you.
 
sangha said:
Excerpted from Jaeger19’s post #193 of the discussion thread, “Health care costs set to increase sharply next year... thanks, Obamacare!”:
https://www.debatepolitics.com/obam...-obamacare-post1065191441.html#post1065191441
“... the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor.”
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Sangha, the majority of USA’s population lacking adequate medical care are those that cannot afford adequate medical insurance, or cannot afford their insurance’s out-of-pocket costs. I suppose most of them are working poor that are not entirely impoverished and cannot qualify for Medicaid.

Respectfully. Supposn
 
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Lafayette said:
Bollocks. You need badly a course in Civics that you never took ...
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:lamo
Wrong as usual.

Get back with me after you learn how Presidential elections work in this country.
 
Helix said:
congress granted the power in 1962 when it seemed unimaginable that a horrifically unqualified oaf like Trump might become president someday. congress has the power to revoke the act, and should do so immediately.
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Horribly unqualified because he's so effective?

By what measure are you assessing his qualifications? He seems to have done some pretty amazing things that were pronounced to be un-doable by his predecessors.
 
code1211 said:
Horribly unqualified because he's so effective?

By what measure are you assessing his qualifications? He seems to have done some pretty amazing things that were pronounced to be un-doable by his predecessors.
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He can't even spell. He would probably be laughed off of this site if he were to join as a regular member. You'll forgive me if I don't consider someone like that to be qualified for the most powerful job in the world. My hope is that this country's inertia will carry us through his ineptitude and that we'll emerge on the other side mostly unscathed. My fear is that the real outcome could be worse.
 
Helix said:
He can't even spell. He would probably be laughed off of this site if he were to join as a regular member. You'll forgive me if I don't consider someone like that to be qualified for the most powerful job in the world. My hope is that this country's inertia will carry us through his ineptitude and that we'll emerge on the other side mostly unscathed. My fear is that the real outcome could be worse.
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My fear is that nothing will change and we'll return to the lethargic go along to get along mentality that seems to grip Washington.

My hope is that the issues with China Trade will get squared away, the issues surrounding immigration and the folks who are already here will get squared away and that GDP will exceed a 3% growth rate again.

Trump is doing what a business man does. Identify the problem. Create a plan to correct the problem. Implement the plan. Assess the plan. Make adjustments to the plan. Repeat.

In the past, the approach has been to identify an issue. Allocate money. Steal the money. Allocate more money. Steal more money. Repeat.

Is it any wonder why the folks using the past approach don't like the new one?
 
code1211 said:
My fear is that nothing will change and we'll return to the lethargic go along to get along mentality that seems to grip Washington.

My hope is that the issues with China Trade will get squared away, the issues surrounding immigration and the folks who are already here will get squared away and that GDP will exceed a 3% growth rate again.

Trump is doing what a business man does. Identify the problem. Create a plan to correct the problem. Implement the plan. Assess the plan. Make adjustments to the plan. Repeat.

In the past, the approach has been to identify an issue. Allocate money. Steal the money. Allocate more money. Steal more money. Repeat.

Is it any wonder why the folks using the past approach don't like the new one?
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Trump is a real estate shyster who shouldn't have been allowed near the military or foreign policy. What is even more unnerving is that so many bought the con.
 
Helix said:
Trump is a real estate shyster who shouldn't have been allowed near the military or foreign policy. What is even more unnerving is that so many bought the con.
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What implemented policies leave you unnerved?
 
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