• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Tame inflation in US reflects pressure on household budgets

DifferentDrummr said:
Well, I'd have to start by figuring out how much/little you understand at this point.

What to you think the term "inelastic pricing" means in economics?

Take your time before typing out something on impulse...
Click to expand...

for 3rd time: can the liberal explain the concept (why capitalist health care won't work)? Afraid to try?? What do we learn from his liberal fear?
 
James972 said:
for 3rd time: can the liberal explain the concept (why capitalist health care won't work)? Afraid to try?? What do we learn from his liberal fear?
Click to expand...

Nobody can explain concepts to bobbleheads who aren't interested in understanding them.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
Nobody can explain concepts to bobbleheads who aren't interested in understanding them.
Click to expand...

for 4th time: can the liberal explain the concept (why capitalist health care won't work)? Afraid to try?? What do we learn from his liberal fear?

ever see a conservative or libertarian have to run from a debate?
 
James972 said:
for 4th time: can the liberal explain the concept (why capitalist health care won't work)? Afraid to try?? What do we learn from his liberal fear?

ever see a conservative or libertarian have to run from a debate?
Click to expand...

I don't know what you are, but you run from them all the time.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
I don't know what you are, but you run from them all the time.
Click to expand...

for 5th time: can the liberal explain the concept (why capitalist health care won't work)? Afraid to try?? What do we learn from his liberal fear?

ever see a conservative or libertarian have to run from a debate?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Which is surprising in a tight labor market. Perhaps there is some lag in wages but normally in a tight labor market competition for labor should result in increased wages for labour. If wages do not increase in the next few months I would have to argue the labour market is not as tight as being reported
Click to expand...

I also suspect the labor market isn't as tight as we tend to believe.

We keep hearing how there are more job openings than there are unemployed people, but I suspect that there are a lot of job openings, that will never be filled, because they don't really exist. there are companies that will list job openings with free job bank services, just in case they need someone in the future, or in case they can hire someone at a bargain (below market) level price. Many sales companies that pay commission only always advertise for help, after all, it's a numbers game, the more sales people they have, the larger the chance that some of them will turn out to be good, and regardless, the more salespeople they have, the more sales the company makes.
 
James972 said:
if we had a free economy with people spending their own money on health care prices would come down about 80%. As it is now most health care is free or paid by insurance so most get the max and there is no pressure on prices. Makes sense?
Click to expand...

ABSOLUTELY!!!

I think this is about the only thing that we have ever agreed on. I have long argued that we would be better off if we got rid of insurance companies and paid direct, pretty much like we do for any goods or services. Insurance distorts the free market.
 
imagep said:
ABSOLUTELY!!!

I think this is about the only thing that we have ever agreed on. I have long argued that we would be better off if we got rid of insurance companies and paid direct, pretty much like we do for any goods or services. Insurance distorts the free market.
Click to expand...

insurance does not distort the free market unless liberal govt makes free market insurance illegal as it did in 1946 with McCarran Furguson. Do you understand?
 
James972 said:
insurance does not distort the free market unless liberal govt makes free market insurance illegal as it did in 1946 with McCarran Furguson. Do you understand?
Click to expand...

Insurance always distorts the market because the only free market mechanism which keeps prices low is competition. Any time a third party pays, the customer doesn't feel a need to price shop, and without price shopping there is no competition between providers. Whether the insurance is provided privately or by the government, the result is exactly the same.

So I guess I was wrong, we obviously don't really agree on this.
 
imagep said:
Insurance always distorts the market because the only free market mechanism which keeps prices low is competition.
Click to expand...

and insurance companies cant compete?????????????????????????????
 
imagep said:
Any time a third party pays, the customer doesn't feel a need to price shop, and without price shopping there is no competition between providers.
Click to expand...

actually, the insurance company that pays the lowest price for health care will make the most money and have the lowest premiums 1+1=2
 
imagep said:
So I guess I was wrong, we obviously don't really agree on this.
Click to expand...

you apparently cant grasp the concept of insurance competition and the advantages they have against health care providers.
 
imagep said:
Insurance always distorts the market because the only free market mechanism which keeps prices low is competition. Any time a third party pays, the customer doesn't feel a need to price shop, and without price shopping there is no competition between providers. Whether the insurance is provided privately or by the government, the result is exactly the same.

So I guess I was wrong, we obviously don't really agree on this.
Click to expand...

Price shopping for health care isn't typically feasible. Are you really going to shop providers if you break your leg or have a heart attack?
 
James972 said:
for 5th time: can the liberal explain the concept (why capitalist health care won't work)? Afraid to try?? What do we learn from his liberal fear?
Click to expand...

I am not a liberal, but i can explain why market failure dominates the health care industry.

Health care, both as a good or service, does not have many substitutes and is incredibly time sensitive (with respect to price and outcome). Economists refer to this quality as being inelastic, or... when the price of health care increases, the quantity demanded at the higher price point doesn't diminish on par with higher costs. The demand curve, and it's relative elasticities can be observed here:

6a2d68d59c.jpg


Now... how is this a problem with a free health care market? For starters, the quantity demanded doesn't diminish enough to justify increases in price. In fact, there can be evidence of a Giffen good when consumers seek out legend status providers, e.g. Dr. James Andrews. Furthermore, it can be assumed that the overwhelming majority of ones lifetime health care consumption will occur during their last year of life. Given the high proximity of mortality regardless of consumption, the pricing mechanism forces creates a demographic (the elderly) that is uninsurable in a free market.

With that said, i have absolutely zero faith in a coherent response. At least you cannot claim innocence in future discussions.

ever see a conservative or libertarian have to run from a debate?
Click to expand...

I've observed many are just too ****ing stupid to know when to quit.
 
James972 said:
and insurance companies cant compete?????????????????????????????
Click to expand...

The existence of the third party payer system prevents medical care providers from competing with each other. So prices of care go higher and higher. Insurance companies love it when medical care becomes more expensive because that makes customers feel that they HAVE to have insurance and thus justifies the insurance companies jacking up their prices every year.

Currently, there is nothing that prevents insurance companies from competing against each other, they do it all the time. Any insurance company that wants to operate in any state can simply open a branch in that state and create policies that conform to that state's law. BC/BS operates in all 50 states.
 
Kushinator said:
Price shopping for health care isn't typically feasible. Are you really going to shop providers if you break your leg or have a heart attack?
Click to expand...

I don't have insurance, so I always price shop. But not everyone has to price shop for the mechanism of price shopping to create competition - there just needs to be enough price shoppers to create a critical mass, and laws that providers can't jack up prices over stated rates for emergencies.

I have saved tens of thousands of dollars on medical care by price shopping. I'm getting tired of telling my story about how I priced shopped for two surgeries, but I had two surgeries for less than $15k combined. One of the facilities that I price shopped wanted $35k just for the use of their operating room. And yes, I did have to price shop while in a certain amount of pain, but actual medical emergencies are rare.

Anyhow, if rates were published and advertised, it would take someone only minutes to chose a provider, and most people would have an understanding of which facilities were priced outside their range, and which facilities were affordable. We also need a rating system for quality of medical provider, very much like what ebay and amazon.com have. The way it is right now, everyone thinks that they have the best doctor in the world, when in actuality there is a 50% chance that they have a doctor who isn't even in the top half.
 
Last edited:
imagep said:
I don't have insurance, so I always price shop.
Click to expand...

The things you are shopping for don't cost much to begin with. If you happen to need surgery, there often isn't much time to shop around. Besides, do you really want to have surgery in the cheapest facility with the lowest paid staff? Not me!

But not everyone has to price shop for the mechanism of price shopping to create competition - there just needs to be enough price shoppers to create a critical mass, and laws that providers can't jack up prices over stated rates for emergencies.
Click to expand...

It just doesn't happen this way. For the main drivers of health care costs (no, a checkup or physical isn't bankrupting Americans), you are simply not going to be price sensitive. The main concern will be staying alive and not becoming disabled from lack of prompt care.

I have saved tens of thousands of dollars on medical care by price shopping.
Click to expand...

Cool story. It doesn't make your point.
 
Kushinator said:
Price shopping for health care isn't typically feasible. Are you really going to shop providers if you break your leg or have a heart attack?
Click to expand...

word gets around long before you need a Rolls Royce that it is an expensive car!! Plus, if prices were published like in capitalism a hospital would be putting themselves out of business with publisher higher prices for no reason.
 
Kushinator said:
The things you are shopping for don't cost much to begin with. If you happen to need surgery, there often isn't much time to shop around. Besides, do you really want to have surgery in the cheapest facility with the lowest paid staff? Not me!
.
Click to expand...
often there is plenty of time to shop around and to consult experts and rating services for best price/quality ratio. This process would bring prices down 80%. California study showed prices for appendectomy range from $6000 to $55000. Under capitalism price would settle about $5000. many studies like this make it possible to predict the capitalism would reduce prices 80%. the only thing that prevents this gold mine from being discovered is the pure ignorance of liberals.
 
Kushinator said:
Cool story. It doesn't make your point.
Click to expand...

Sure it does, I have a friend who saved $1400 on an MRI by getting it in PA rather Maine where she lived!!
 
Kushinator said:
The main concern will be staying alive and not becoming disabled from lack of prompt care.
Click to expand...

bizarre thing to say given that people wait in lines forever in Socialist countries!! Do you ever get anything right??
 
imagep said:
Anyhow, if rates were published and advertised, .
Click to expand...

Now there is law that I could support since it would promote Republican capitalism and thereby drop prices about 80%. I once asked a MD the price of a drug she was perscription and she got mad asserting she was a clinician and could not be concerned with price!!!
 
James972 said:
Plus, if prices were published like in capitalism a hospital would be putting themselves out of business with publisher higher prices for no reason.
Click to expand...

:lamo

Come on
 
James972 said:
often there is plenty of time to shop around and to consult experts and rating services for best price/quality ratio. This process would bring prices down 80%.
Click to expand...

You literally made this up out of thin air.

California study showed prices for appendectomy range from $6000 to $55000. Under capitalism price would settle about $5000. many studies like this make it possible to predict the capitalism would reduce prices 80%. the only thing that prevents this gold mine from being discovered is the pure ignorance of liberals.
Click to expand...

:eek:

I'm just going to assume you're trolling.
 
Kushinator said:
You literally made this up out of thin air.
.
Click to expand...

totally wrong and naive of course! If you look at socialism/capitalism in East/West Germany and dozens of other examples you see what the difference is in what people can afford. Did you even know that competition brings prices way way way down? Notice what talking to a liberal is like? Sad for our country!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom