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Is free trade among countries the same as free trade among individuals?

James972

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Conservatives and libertarians support free trade capitalism between individuals and between countries in the belief that Republican free trade capitalism works best in both cases. Isn’t it amazing how despite liberals best efforts they really can’t hide from us the real and constant issue of political economy ie, capitalism versus socialism.
 
Capitalist not my best interest when I worker in employment in my village 60 miles south my live and Stockholm.

:mrgreen:
 
Capitalist not my best interest when I worker in employment in my village 60 miles south my live and Stockholm.

:mrgreen:

not sure what you mean.Please try again. China switched to capitalism and instantly eliminated 40% of all the poverty on earth. Capitalism is God's best work.
 
not sure what you mean.Please try again. China switched to capitalism and instantly eliminated 40% of all the poverty on earth. Capitalism is God's best work.

Any ideology is wrong if you take it out of context.

A blend of socialism and capitalism is required in this world.
 
not sure what you mean.Please try again. China switched to capitalism and instantly eliminated 40% of all the poverty on earth. Capitalism is God's best work.

Capitalist ir worse than Communism and its starts in begun of 1820's in France a french refreshing Communism in France and Spain at least then it Russia/Soviet too its a fine present's for my interest when citizen want voter for Communism of Sweden this year or 2022.
 
Conservatives and libertarians support free trade capitalism between individuals and between countries in the belief that Republican free trade capitalism works best in both cases. Isn’t it amazing how despite liberals best efforts they really can’t hide from us the real and constant issue of political economy ie, capitalism versus socialism.
James972, you're incorrect; the consequences of free trade among nations is not similar to consequences of free trade among self determined entities if the nations' governments were not among the principals that actually determined the individual trade or sales agreements.

Enterprises choose to internationally outsource when they believed it's to their net advantage; (i.e. they perceived a comparative advantage to do so).

Enterprises discontinuing production of any item may benefit by numerous methods. They could shift their displaced labor to perform other tasks that need to be done, or dismiss higher priced and/or specialized labor to perform those other tasks, or simply dismiss their now excess labor with no additional hiring. Their choice of action will be dependent upon circumstances and in aggregate those choices will be to the enterprise's net benefit.

Enterprises can directly benefit from purchasing imported goods but they do not pay for their decisions net detrimental effects upon USA's economy. Annual trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nations GDP and drag upon their numbers of jobs.

We should not blame enterprises or persons for acting in what they (usually correctly) believe to be to their own individual best interests. USA's chronic annual trade deficits are a condition that we can recognize and remedy. If USA adopted the trade policy described within Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article, it would significantly, (if not entirely) eliminate our annual trade deficits of goods, increasing our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.

Within an Import Certificate policy, what individual enterprises (correctly) perceive to be in their own to best interests will also be to our nation's best interests.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
Any ideology is wrong if you take it out of context.

A blend of socialism and capitalism is required in this world.

no idea why you say that given the more socialism the more dead people.
 
Any ideology is wrong if you take it out of context.

A blend of socialism and capitalism is required in this world.

you pick the middle only to avoid having to think.
 
James972, you're incorrect; the consequences of free trade among nations is not similar to consequences of free trade among self determined entities if the nations' governments were not among the principals that actually determined the individual trade or sales agreements.

Enterprises choose to internationally outsource when they believed it's to their net advantage; (i.e. they perceived a comparative advantage to do so).

Enterprises discontinuing production of any item may benefit by numerous methods. They could shift their displaced labor to perform other tasks that need to be done, or dismiss higher priced and/or specialized labor to perform those other tasks, or simply dismiss their now excess labor with no additional hiring. Their choice of action will be dependent upon circumstances and in aggregate those choices will be to the enterprise's net benefit.

Enterprises can directly benefit from purchasing imported goods but they do not pay for their decisions net detrimental effects upon USA's economy. Annual trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nations GDP and drag upon their numbers of jobs.

We should not blame enterprises or persons for acting in what they (usually correctly) believe to be to their own individual best interests. USA's chronic annual trade deficits are a condition that we can recognize and remedy. If USA adopted the trade policy described within Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article, it would significantly, (if not entirely) eliminate our annual trade deficits of goods, increasing our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.

Within an Import Certificate policy, what individual enterprises (correctly) perceive to be in their own to best interests will also be to our nation's best interests.

Respectfully, Supposn

com·par·a·tive ad·van·tage
noun
the ability of an individual or group to carry out a particular economic activity (such as making a specific product) more efficiently than another activity.
 
... Enterprises can directly benefit from purchasing imported goods but they do not pay for their decisions net detrimental effects upon USA's economy. Annual trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nations GDP and drag upon their numbers of jobs.

We should not blame enterprises or persons for acting in what they (usually correctly) believe to be to their own individual best interests. ...Within an Import Certificate policy, what individual enterprises (correctly) perceive to be in their own to best interests will also be to our nation's best interests. ...
com·par·a·tive ad·van·tage
noun
the ability of an individual or group to carry out a particular economic activity (such as making a specific product) more efficiently than another activity.
James972, yes; and your post's point is?
Respectfully, Supposn
 
James972, yes; and your post's point is?
Respectfully, Supposn

to maximize standard of living we must buy from cheapest individual company city state or country
 
to maximize standard of living we must buy from cheapest individual company city state or country
EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, annual trade deficits are always to some detriment to their nation's GDP and thus drag upon their numbers of jobs.
Thus, rather (as you would contend pure free trade always entirely increasing), within a trade deficit nation, (due to their negative balance of trade) their living standard is somewhat less than otherwise; otherwise being if they had not experienced annual trade deficits.

The concept of recognizing and prohibiting classifications of actions and transactions that are deemed to be net detrimental to our society is established in USA's laws and justifys the proposed Import Certificate trade policy.

It's proposed that USA adopt the trade policy described within Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article. Regarding GDP, refer to Encyclopedia Britannica's “GDP” article.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
annual trade deficits are always to some detriment to their nation's GDP

1) absurd of course, a trade deficit among states within the USA or among nations in the world does not harm GDP.
2) GDP is high in USA and low in Ghana because they don't know how to make products. The way to improve GDP is to encourage Republican capitalists to
make stuff not to have swine liberal bureaucrat socialists shuffle papers.
 
EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, annual trade deficits are always to some detriment to their nation's GDP and thus drag upon their numbers of jobs. ...
1) absurd of course, a trade deficit among states within the USA or among nations in the world does not harm GDP. ...
EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, it would be absurd not to believe that USA's states are not in competitive commercial competition, Delegates to what evolved to be the constitutional convention that established the United States of America recognized the natural commercial competition between our states and regions. They NEGOTIATED among themselves to grant the new federal government supreme jurisdiction over interstate and international commerce. The more COMMERCIALLY ADVANTAGED STATES did then COMPROMISE TO FAVOR our best NATIONAL interests.

My allegiance to the USA, (i.e. my nation) is not secondary to consideration for any other concept of a regional or global entities. I’m not amiable to improving USA’s foreign relations by compromising USA’s best economic interests, and particularly compromising the financial interests of USA employees, their dependents, and all enterprises to the extent that their net benefits are dependent upon improved financial conditions of USA’s middle income earners.

USA's adoption of the policy described within Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article would increase our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
... (2) GDP is high in USA and low in Ghana because they don't know how to make products. The way to improve GDP is to encourage Republican capitalists to
make stuff not to have swine liberal bureaucrat socialists shuffle papers.
EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, please be a bit more explicit regarding your advice as opinion as to improving Ghana's economy. It's often helpful to have some facts on hand. Would these sources be of any help to you?
I'm among those contending USA's adoption of the policy described within Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article would increase our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.

Respectfully, Supposn
////////////////////////////
https://tradingeconomics.com/ghana/current-account-to-gdp
Ghana recorded a Current Account deficit of 3.90 percent of the country's Gross Domestic Product in 2016. Current Account to GDP in Ghana averaged -5.03 percent from 1980 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 0.10 percent in 2003 and a record low of -12.60 percent in 2013. ...
… (Ghana's balance of trade)
Last= -351.1, Previous= 224.3, Highest= 904.7, Lowest= -1638.1 (all in USD millions).
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gh.html
Economy - overview:
Ghana has a market-based economy with relatively few policy barriers to trade and investment in comparison with other countries in the region, and Ghana is well-endowed with natural resources. Ghana's economy was strengthened by a quarter century of relatively sound management, a competitive business environment, and sustained reductions in poverty levels, but in recent years has suffered the consequences of loose fiscal policy, high budget and current account deficits, and a depreciating currency.
Agriculture accounts for about 20% of GDP and employs more than half of the workforce, mainly small landholders. Gold and cocoa exports, and individual remittances, are major sources of foreign exchange. Expansion of Ghana’s nascent oil industry has boosted economic growth, but the fall in oil prices since 2015 reduced by half Ghana’s oil revenue. Production at Jubilee, Ghana's offshore oilfield, began in mid-December 2010. The country’s first gas processing plant at Atubao is also producing natural gas from the Jubilee field, providing power to several of Ghana’s thermal power plants.
As of 2017, key economic concerns facing the government include the lack of reliable electricity and the high debt burden. The AKUFO-ADDO administration has made some progress by committing to fiscal consolidation, but much work is still to be done in 2018. Ghana signed a $920 million extended credit facility with the IMF in April 2015 to help it address its growing economic crisis. The IMF fiscal targets require Ghana to reduce the deficit by cutting subsidies, decreasing the bloated public sector wage bill, strengthening revenue administration, and boosting tax revenues. Priorities for the new administration include rescheduling some of Ghana’s $31 billion debt, stimulating economic growth, reducing inflation, and stabilizing the currency. Prospects for new oil and gas production and follow through on tighter fiscal management are likely to help Ghana’s economy in 2018.
 
Most people can probably agree that trade should be fair, a give and take situation. If we, indeed, care about people, not just here in the US, but t/o the world.
Are workers in India, China...making a living wage, or are we paying high dollar for what they produce just to line the pockets of those who already have plenty, and/or are we enabling the Chinese to increase their military might?
I want the consumers and the workers get their fair share to be for free trade. Accountability and results will convince me.
 
1) absurd of course, a trade deficit among states within the USA or among nations in the world does not harm GDP.
2) GDP is high in USA and low in Ghana because they don't know how to make products. The way to improve GDP is to encourage Republican capitalists to
make stuff not to have swine liberal bureaucrat socialists shuffle papers.

GDP has little to do with making products and much to do with making money. What products are made in DC which has the hghest per capita GDP in the US by far?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita
 
There is no free trade among individuals except where states or powerful individuals have no control over the local market. There is no such thing as international free trade except where states allow it through bilateral or multilateral agreements for certain sectors of their economy. Free trade is an idea talked about by and touted or opposed by the cheerleaders whom we call economists, but those in business know it is often an unattainable ideal and can often lead to national ruin. States want to accumulate public wealth (and often private wealth too) and thus pursue targeted trade and preferential trade rather than free trade.

China has grown much richer by following preferential trade policies with its trading partners as have Germany, France and Britain. The USA is being economically hollowed-out by its stubborn determination to follow a free trade agenda with nations which are practicing preferential trade policies. Free trade is now and always has been a myth. Even when Britain's comparative advantage due to the industrial revolution was used as a justification for such trade it was an illusion. What enriched Britain during the 19th and early 20th centuries was empire, cheap resources due to colonial exploitation and captive markets where manufactured goods could be sold at high prices without foreign competition rationalising the market and undercutting British mark-ups. Free trade was an ideological crowbar which the British Empire used to try to pry open foreign markets (in concert with the Royal Navy's gun-boat economics) but free trade was not practiced seriously by Britain for more than a couple of decades on and off in the 19th Century. Imperial exploitation and later imperial preference was far more deterministic to Britain's wealth at the time.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
There is no free trade among individuals except where states or powerful individuals have no control over the local market.

op is about whether free trade among individuals is the same as among countries and thus intelligent people should support both. Do you understand?
 
GDP has little to do with making products and much to do with making money.

we are not concerned with what GDP has to do with but with whether free trade among states is the same as among individuals and thus should be supported equally.
 
op is about whether free trade among individuals is the same as among countries. Do you understand?

Jamesrage972:

Did you read the next sentence after the one you quoted in which I made the comparison that just like free trade between individuals is mostly non-existent, so is international free trade between countries mostly non-existent? Both are myths promulgated by economists and used to sell ideologies to gullible folk, but both also have little bearing in reality.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
we are not concerned with what GDP has to do with but with whether free trade among states is the same as among individuals and thus should be supported equally.

The laws vary based on whether the trade is international, interstate or intrastate. So the trade laws are not the same.
 
Most people can probably agree that trade should be fair, a give and take situation. If we, indeed, care about people, not just here in the US, but t/o the world.
Are workers in India, China...making a living wage, or are we paying high dollar for what they produce just to line the pockets of those who already have plenty, and/or are we enabling the Chinese to increase their military might?
I want the consumers and the workers get their fair share to be for free trade. Accountability and results will convince me.
Lovebug, the policy described by Wikipedia's Import Certificate policy does not discriminate between foreign nations; (but does favor its own nation). It is applicable to all industries, enterprises, and excluding very narrow exceptions drafted within its laws, it is equally applicable to almost all tangible goods.

It is not an altruistic policy and not a policy that punishes or otherwise particularly harms foreign nations. The policy is recommended for nations such as the USA that experience chronic annual trade deficits of goods. The policy would increase its nation's annual GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.

The policy's entire costs are passed on to USA purchasers and consumers of imported goods. We all benefit from cheaper imports, but that does not fully compensate for the economic detriments due to our trade deficits.

The economic costs of USA's trade deficits are primarily borne by USA employees, their dependents, and any others in the USA to the extents they're dependent upon those USA enterprises which are in turn more dependent upon the financial conditions of USA's middle income earners.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
The laws vary based on whether the trade is international, interstate or intrastate. So the trade laws are not the same.

our subject is not whether laws vary, but rather should we have free trade capitalism among nations states cities and individuals for exactly the same reason, namely, the more free trade the richer we get.
 
The policy would increase its nation's annual GDP

we got from stone age GDP to today's GDP thanks to policy that encouraged innovative new products. If your policy does not do that it is a stupid liberal policy.
 
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