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Steel Industry in the US

Hawkeye10 said:
I dont care, it makes no sense to haul heavy steel all around the globe except possibly to meet national carbon targets, and that will not happen for reals till we get a global scheme going.
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Under this premise, it makes no sense to haul anything that can be perceived as heavy. Why do we even trade?

We need to wise up.
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We need to embrace autarky?!?!
 
Barnacle said:
Not true.

"... China’s exports, in particular, are so widespread that they are having pernicious effects on global trade in many downstream steel products. This helps explain why it is necessary to have tariffs on imports from all countries, and not just unfair traders like China.

For example, anti-dumping and countervailing duty complaints have been used to reduce or eliminate direct U.S. imports of many basic and semi-finished steel products from China. However, China is now a major exporter of basic steel commodities to many other countries, where it is often transformed into downstream products such as pipe, rails, and bars that are ultimately exported to the United States from those downstream producers.

Major steel exporter’s imports of steel from China between 2009 and 2015 are shown in the figure below The biggest importers of Chinese steel were South Korea and Japan, followed by the Russian Federation and Turkey. In recent years, Vietnam soared into second place among these countries, and imports by Mexico have also increased sharply. ..."

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tariffs-on-steel-aluminum-are-long-overdue-2018-03-02


Just because an item is repackaged in one country does not mean it was produced in that country.
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whew.

So because other countries trade with China we have to put tariffs on all the countries is basically what that article is saying.

Smart! :lamo

Also, we know for a fact that over 70% of all steel purchased in the US is domestically made. I personally don't think that means ****, because I don't care, but take that for what you will.

Also, you're conducting a crusade for an industry that is about 50 something billion dollars in net worth in comparison to our multi-trillion dollar economy, and in so doing, are endangering sectors of the economy that dwarf that little industry.
 
Kushinator said:
Under this premise, it makes no sense to haul anything that can be perceived as heavy. Why do we even trade?



We need to embrace autarky?!?!
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but muh heavy stuff.

It's not like we have gigantic boats capable of carrying thousands of tonnes of raw material in one easy trip. It's all a lie I tell you! We actually have a fleet of canoes and are only capable of transporting all that steel by flooding the oceans with our wooden boats!
 
camlok said:
The USA has to get back to what it does best, invading poor third world countries and stealing their wealth. That is what made America "great". Make America "great" again!!.
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Stealing their wealth?

If it weren't for us, China wouldn't be where it is right now.

Zero sum economics is the dumbest **** ever. Free trade has not only helped the US become the juggernaut it is today, but it has helped countless other nations to rise up.

If we give our money to a nation, we get a product that we can use. And when we give a product to a nation, we get money that we can use. In either case, both parties receive something they want or need in a consensual transaction and both parties benefit.

There is no "loser winner" relationship with these kinds of things.

Do you consider yourself a loser when you buy a piece of bread at the local bakery because you had to pay for it?
 
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Luftwaffe said:
whew.

So because other countries trade with China we have to put tariffs on all the countries is basically what that article is saying.

Smart! :lamo

Also, we know for a fact that over 70% of all steel purchased in the US is domestically made. I personally don't think that means ****, because I don't care, but take that for what you will.

Also, you're conducting a crusade for an industry that is about 50 something billion dollars in net worth in comparison to our multi-trillion dollar economy, and in so doing, are endangering sectors of the economy that dwarf that little industry.
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Nobody is stopping any country from selling their own or Chinese steel to any country they like. This is a free world (grin) after all.

If you believe that 70% of all our steel is manufacture in the US, why would you not aim at reaching 100%?!?

Steel is only part of our economy, just like coal.
Trump is not finished yet on reclaiming our self-sufficiency/home-grown production.
 
Barnacle said:
Nobody is stopping any country from selling their own or Chinese steel to any country they like. This is a free world (grin) after all.

If you believe that 70% of all our steel is manufacture in the US, why would you not aim at reaching 100%?!?

Steel is only part of our economy, just like coal.
Trump is not finished yet on reclaiming our self-sufficiency/home-grown production.
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I will not aim for 100% if it doesn't make economic sense to do so.

Steel isn't just only a part of our economy, it's an abysmally TINY part of our economy, and it certainly isn't worth endangering countless other industries as well as foreign relationships over.

Trump will not make America self-sufficient. At this stage of the game, it is 100% IMPOSSIBLE for America to be self sufficient with the amount we consume. I would have to check the numbers again, but Americans consume about 20-25% of the world's resources last I checked. Thinking that we can live off our own land is a ****ing pipe dream.

You know who else was fanatical about self sufficiency? Mao Zedong, and he murdered tens of millions of people in his quest to try to make China self sufficient. His successors wisened up and realized that if you dump this stupid idea of self sufficiency and enter the global market, you can better your own nation by a factor of ****ing 1000 compared to how much you could better it through attempts at self sufficiency.
 
Luftwaffe said:
I will not aim for 100% if it doesn't make economic sense to do so.

Steel isn't just only a part of our economy, it's an abysmally TINY part of our economy, and it certainly isn't worth endangering countless other industries as well as foreign relationships over.

Trump will not make America self-sufficient. At this stage of the game, it is 100% IMPOSSIBLE for America to be self sufficient with the amount we consume. I would have to check the numbers again, but Americans consume about 20-25% of the world's resources last I checked. Thinking that we can live off our own land is a ****ing pipe dream.

You know who else was fanatical about self sufficiency? Mao Zedong, and he murdered tens of millions of people in his quest to try to make China self sufficient. His successors wisened up and realized that if you dump this stupid idea of self sufficiency and enter the global market, you can better your own nation by a factor of ****ing 1000 compared to how much you could better it through attempts at self sufficiency.
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How many flatware companies produce cutlery "Made in USA"?!? - I believe only 1.

Thinking that we can live off our own land is a ****ing pipe dream. Maybe to you. But I believe in self-sufficiency first, and then sourcing from other countries.

y
 
Most of the companies I work for still use American steel pipe and fittings. We have had too much trouble with foreign steel. One big difference is threading of pipe. Foreign pipe galls and damages the dies. I think there are too many impurities in the metal. I personally like Ward fittings. They are heavier made and you have less problems overall with leaks from bad threads or fittings cracking.
 
Barnacle said:
I'm not fishing ... find something else to bite.
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How much steel does Canada buy from China to reship to the US?
None, I bet. You just made that up, or you're repeating someone else who just made it up.
 
Barnacle said:
How many flatware companies produce cutlery "Made in USA"?!? - I believe only 1.

Thinking that we can live off our own land is a ****ing pipe dream. Maybe to you. But I believe in self-sufficiency first, and then sourcing from other countries.

y
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The land of the United States does not contain 20-25% of all the world's resources.

I love this nation to death as a tryhard nationalist, but I'm not going to smoke the funky stuff and think that we can sustain ourselves off of our own land.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
Most of the companies I work for still use American steel pipe and fittings. We have had too much trouble with foreign steel. One big difference is threading of pipe. Foreign pipe galls and damages the dies. I think there are too many impurities in the metal. I personally like Ward fittings. They are heavier made and you have less problems overall with leaks from bad threads or fittings cracking.
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I'm an Ironworker by trade and I've had experience with Chinese steel. I've been frustrated trying to fit wide-flange beams and found the web in a 12-inch beam was 1/2 inch off center and another time I was cutting plate and the cut would suddenly blow out a hole the size of a quarter, like there was a void between laminations when it was supposedly a solid plate.
 
Grand Mal said:
I'm an Ironworker by trade and I've had experience with Chinese steel. I've been frustrated trying to fit wide-flange beams and found the web in a 12-inch beam was 1/2 inch off center and another time I was cutting plate and the cut would suddenly blow out a hole the size of a quarter, like there was a void between laminations when it was supposedly a solid plate.
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I wonder if they actually work with the cheap crap they ship over here or do we just get their cheap crap because they cannot compete in price for equivalent product. I have 200 psi water pressure coming into my house. My grandfather ran a copper line over to a hose faucet at that pressure to clean his cement tools. That was 75 years ago. Most valves and fittings are rated at 150psi. The US line of valves will work at 200psi the imports will not. I hate to lower the pressure because I love that pressure for cleaning things. Try finding a garden hose that will work at that pressure.
 
Grand Mal said:
I'm an Ironworker by trade and I've had experience with Chinese steel.
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actually it comes in all qualities and any serious buyer knows exactly what quality he's getting. Imagine a building collapsing or a boat sinking because the Chinese lied about quality. Who would buy from them ever again. Do you understand.
 
Luftwaffe said:
We don't need to export since we 70% of all the steel purchased in the United States is domestic anyhow and that's probably what's keeping us from exporting steel. Besides, steel is a tiny sector of our economy, it simply isn't important.

I'd bet five bucks that Apple alone is monetarily bigger than the entirety of the steel industry by like a factor of 10.

The entire primary metals industry accounts for a whopping 53.6 billion dollars out of our multi-trillion dollar economy :lamo

https://bea.gov/iTable/iTable.cfm?r...5102=1#reqid=51&step=51&isuri=1&5114=a&5102=1
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I invite you to listen to the Wilbur Ross interview starting at 4:00. It explains why US steel producing companies are at risk.
 
James972 said:
actually it comes in all qualities and any serious buyer knows exactly what quality he's getting. Imagine a building collapsing or a boat sinking because the Chinese lied about quality. Who would buy from them ever again. Do you understand.
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Do I understand? Are you pretending that you have something to teach me about steel?
 
Grand Mal said:
Do I understand? Are you pretending that you have something to teach me about steel?
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not about steel but about thinking. Serious buyers of Chinese steel must know exactly what they are buying and they do. Do you understand?
 
James972 said:
not about steel but about thinking. Serious buyers of Chinese steel must know exactly what they are buying and they do. Do you understand?
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(sigh)
Yes, dear. I understand. Now that you've explained it to me.
Thank you.
 
Grand Mal said:
(sigh)
Yes, dear. I understand. Now that you've explained it to me.
Thank you.
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good for you and now maybe you can also grasp that JS Mill was perhaps the most famous libertarian/conservative in history so not an ally of yours. Word meanings change over time and between countries. Did you ever consider that???
 
Rexedgar said:
Thanks for the answer to the question, not.
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Someone said that around 200,000 steel jobs still exist, as opposed to the 6.5 million steel manufacturing workers who'll suffer from the price increases most...
 
Rexedgar said:
What is the state of US steel? Similar to coal? Seems like steel was on the way out in the seventies.
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As I understand it, US Steel makers have been unable to meet domestic needs, and are "non-competitive" because Canada, Germany, Japan and China have all upgraded to high tech, automated systems.

So, now you will pay more for anything made of steel or Aluminum, from computers to cars, to aluminum cans, to bicycles and even medical supplies. Economists say Trump's move left to itself would be enough to damage the US economy, let alone what happens with retaliation. China and Japan have promised swift reprisals and it appears they will move on America's huge , in trillions, debt there, even a 1% surcharge could have dire consequences.

What to expect is that Trump will announce the move this week. Within a short time affected countries will retaliate, Trump will cry fowl and call the payback "illegal" and institute even more damaging tariffs.

The other countries will up their retaliation, and Trump will declare war and invade.

Yes, he is that ****ing crazy.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
I wonder if they actually work with the cheap crap they ship over here or do we just get their cheap crap because they cannot compete in price for equivalent product. I have 200 psi water pressure coming into my house. My grandfather ran a copper line over to a hose faucet at that pressure to clean his cement tools. That was 75 years ago. Most valves and fittings are rated at 150psi. The US line of valves will work at 200psi the imports will not. I hate to lower the pressure because I love that pressure for cleaning things. Try finding a garden hose that will work at that pressure.
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150?? 200????
Geez whiz, I guess I don't know nuttin' because I always thought typical city water pressure was more like 45-50 psi.
Good Lord, 200 is astronomical, or it sure sounds astronomical.

I know that with a large...what is it, 3/4 inch line you get much more pressure but I didn
think the typical hosepipe line on a house carried that kind of pressure.
School me, I always like to learn new stuff.
 
Fearandloathing said:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
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1) do you really think they wanted people not to have arms when all the people already had them???? Did they confiscate arms when Constitution passed?????

2) if people bear arms used by militia for security of a free state how would security be possible if only state had arms? Would you expect state to distribute arms to people to be used against itself???
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
150?? 200????
Geez whiz, I guess I don't know nuttin' because I always thought typical city water pressure was more like 45-50 psi.
Good Lord, 200 is astronomical, or it sure sounds astronomical.

I know that with a large...what is it, 3/4 inch line you get much more pressure but I didn
think the typical hosepipe line on a house carried that kind of pressure.
School me, I always like to learn new stuff.
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First off a larger pipe increases volume at what ever pressure is available. If the city has 40 psi because that is what they set the pressure at increasing the size of your pipe only increases the volume not the pressure.

Most flat areas use water towers. The water is pumped approximately 130 feet above the surrounding area into towers and they let gravity regulate the water pressure to all the homes.

I live in a low lying area and the water comes from a lake on the mountain. People living on the hills around me are several hundred feet higher than me. In order for the people on the top of the hill to have 40 psi the water pressure at my house needs to be about 200 psi.

I have 2 pressure regulators on my service line. The first regulator drops the incoming pressure to 125 psi. The second regulator reduces the pressure to 65 psi. I have my pressure a little high to compensate for a water filter and undersize piping. The water pipes in my house are between 70 to 90 years old. They were put in by my grandfather, my father and now me.

My water pressure varies from 180 to 220 psi depending on how full the lake is. Right now the lake is low. But with the spring floods it will raise the water level approximately 25 to 30 feet.

water pressure high.jpg

water pressure low.jpg
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
What state do you live in?
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Pennsylvania. The city lines that service my neighborhood are over 100 years old. They are wrought iron with lead calk joints. My house was built in 1894. My grandfather bought it in the 1930's when the person living in it died.
 
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