• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Economist - How the Republican tax bill compares with previous reforms

What if...? said:
How does your example deter automation when 4.5 people at the current rate would cost the same as three at $15/hour?

Isn't the $75,000 machine only a tiny bit less desireable?

Business will automate the second technology makes it possible.

Just like they did with offshoring.

Its about profit. Nothing more, nothing less.

Workers are just an annoyance.
Click to expand...

With the nature of employees being what it is , your last line is dead on accurate.

The day to day cost of any employee is about 30% greater than the hourly rate.

Machines have a purchase price, an amortized value and a maintenance cost. The purchase cost is made at the outset. The life of the machine will likely be about 10 years.

There will be some maintenance cost, but that will be figured in fractions of a percent compared to the human workforce.

The compelling motivation to hire a person is that a person, in many cases, is more adaptable than a machine. The compelling motivation to buy a machine is that a machine is more consistent than a person.

Off shoring results from a combination of motivations. Many of those motivations are the result of punitive tax policies.

Good reasons to locate in the US include an educated work force, orderly society and terrific infrastructure compared to other countries. Good reasons to leave are the ridiculous and layered tax system, high wages and the Labyrinth of regulation and permitting.
 
ashurbanipal said:
So, do you get the paychecks of everyone who paid taxes in January? Because unless you do, I have no idea why this is relevant.



Did you think people were saying that would happen on day one?
Click to expand...

The payroll at my company is administered by a national payroll company. Do YOU get a paycheck? What did it say?

We have only one month of REALITY on which to judge the predictions. That month showed higher revenues than the previous January in which there were no tax cuts.

When February results are published and they support the predictions that you seem to prefer over reality, please post them to support your position.
 
justabubba said:
look forward to reading what subsidies, which welfare spending, and what entitlements should be cut and how much for each. until then, i will accept this post as intentionally vague and extremely misinformed
Click to expand...

Go back to "workfare", stop subsidizing businesses that would fail without subsidies, change PERS so that it's on par with the private sector. Those three changes right there would make a massive difference.
 
faithful_servant said:
Fewer MW jobs THIS YEAR!!
More unemployment THIS YEAR!!
More people on welfare THIS YEAR!!
Less tax revenue THIS YEAR!!
Higher prices for essential items THIS YEAR!!
Click to expand...

Nothing but right wing propaganda and rhetoric.

We don't care if we lose low wage jobs. Higher wage jobs generate more tax revenue.
 
danielpalos said:
Nothing but right wing propaganda and rhetoric.

We don't care if we lose low wage jobs. Higher wage jobs generate more tax revenue.
Click to expand...

Unemployed people pay no taxes.
Raise the MW, raise unemployment.
Raise the MW, and you raise costs which get passed on to the consumer and the consumers that get the hardest are those on fixed incomes. Raising the MW means that grandma gets to chose between her heart medicine and eating lunch this week.
 
faithful_servant said:
Unemployed people pay no taxes.
Raise the MW, raise unemployment.
Raise the MW, and you raise costs which get passed on to the consumer and the consumers that get the hardest are those on fixed incomes. Raising the MW means that grandma gets to chose between her heart medicine and eating lunch this week.
Click to expand...

Why claim learning how to fish is important, right winger; when you Only seem to have Red Herrings for your effort.

We really don't care if we lose low wage jobs, right wingers.

U.S. has record 6 million job openings, even as 6.8 million Americans are looking for jobs - Jun. 6, 2017
 
code1211 said:
The payroll at my company is administered by a national payroll company. Do YOU get a paycheck? What did it say?
Click to expand...

I don't think I've had any change so far. I have to log in to my HR account to see my pay stubs; since one of my publishers is also the University at which I teach, royalties make my deposits slightly different every month. I haven't noticed any substantive changes one way or another, and don't feel like firing up ye olde VPN and getting into my HR account right now.

code1211 said:
We have only one month of REALITY on which to judge the predictions.
Click to expand...

Which is kinda like trying to predict the outcome of a reasonably well-matched football game based on the first couple minutes of play.

code1211 said:
That month showed higher revenues than the previous January in which there were no tax cuts.
Click to expand...

Two points you're ignoring:

1. As did the previous three Januaries.

2. According to your own sources, the tax cuts didn't take effect in January for the majority of people.

Indeed, I don't even understand why you think there's any argument to be had here. The reason tax cuts are supposed to result in the same or higher revenues is because the economy is stimulated, and people and businesses are supposed to make more money overall, so while they're paying a lower rate of taxes, they're paying it on more money. But it's downright absurd to suggest that such effect happens a couple weeks after people see the first tax cuts--especially when, as your own source points out, most have not seen those cuts.

code1211 said:
When February results are published and they support the predictions that you seem to prefer over reality, please post them to support your position.
Click to expand...

I think to accurately understand the effect, it'll take at least a year...and probably more like ten.
 
Originally posted by Code failure

Do you receive a paycheck on a regular basis? Reviewing that might be a good place to start in seeing whether or not the tax cut was in place during January.

As so often happens, quotes from Reagan are a good response on this board:

"There you go again."
Click to expand...

Do you know reply with a quote properly? Do you know that anecdotal evidence is worthless? Did you read the IRS website that I provided a link for? Please do us all the courtesy of becoming familiar with reality before you accuse anyone ever again of not knowing what it is.
 
ashurbanipal said:
I don't think I've had any change so far. I have to log in to my HR account to see my pay stubs; since one of my publishers is also the University at which I teach, royalties make my deposits slightly different every month. I haven't noticed any substantive changes one way or another, and don't feel like firing up ye olde VPN and getting into my HR account right now.



Which is kinda like trying to predict the outcome of a reasonably well-matched football game based on the first couple minutes of play.



Two points you're ignoring:

1. As did the previous three Januaries.

2. According to your own sources, the tax cuts didn't take effect in January for the majority of people.

Indeed, I don't even understand why you think there's any argument to be had here. The reason tax cuts are supposed to result in the same or higher revenues is because the economy is stimulated, and people and businesses are supposed to make more money overall, so while they're paying a lower rate of taxes, they're paying it on more money. But it's downright absurd to suggest that such effect happens a couple weeks after people see the first tax cuts--especially when, as your own source points out, most have not seen those cuts.



I think to accurately understand the effect, it'll take at least a year...and probably more like ten.
Click to expand...

It seems unlikely that waiting a year will do any good if you are opposed to looking for facts instead of listening to the talking points of the Dems.

Nancy Pelosi said of the Tax Bill that contained an end to the Obamacare3 mandate:

“If this goes through, kiss life on earth goodbye. The debate on health care is like death. This is Armageddon.”

Seems like a pretty benign start to the end of "life on Earth".
 
devildavid said:
Do you know reply with a quote properly? Do you know that anecdotal evidence is worthless? Did you read the IRS website that I provided a link for? Please do us all the courtesy of becoming familiar with reality before you accuse anyone ever again of not knowing what it is.
Click to expand...

Came across this by accident.

When you change the attribution as you did in changing the quote, it does not appear in my responses.

It's interesting that you change a quote in a post in which you demean another for not understanding how to "reply with a quote properly".

You guys are amusing and amazing in a Keystone Cops kind of a way.
 
code1211 said:
It seems unlikely that waiting a year will do any good if you are opposed to looking for facts instead of listening to the talking points of the Dems.

Nancy Pelosi said of the Tax Bill that contained an end to the Obamacare3 mandate:

“If this goes through, kiss life on earth goodbye. The debate on health care is like death. This is Armageddon.”

Seems like a pretty benign start to the end of "life on Earth".
Click to expand...

Uh...what? How is any of that remotely relevant to the topic at hand? Who is opposed to looking for facts?
 
code1211 said:
Came across this by accident.

When you change the attribution as you did in changing the quote, it does not appear in my responses.

It's interesting that you change a quote in a post in which you demean another for not understanding how to "reply with a quote properly".

You guys are amusing and amazing in a Keystone Cops kind of a way.
Click to expand...

I did it because you messed up my ability to quote you properly with your messed up reply to me. Now go to the IRS link I provided earlier and splash your face with the cold water of reality. There is no legal requirement to implement the payroll tax cut until February 15th 2018. Case closed.
 
ashurbanipal said:
Uh...what? How is any of that remotely relevant to the topic at hand? Who is opposed to looking for facts?
Click to expand...

The only facts we have on the impact of the tax cut on tax revenues are revealed in the January receipts.

Anything else, including extrapolating that into the future, is only conjecture. The CBO is currently projecting an increase in the deficit of February 2018 compared to February 2017.

When the "final" is in, we'll have another fact to review.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/53638#section2
 
devildavid said:
I did it because you messed up my ability to quote you properly with your messed up reply to me. Now go to the IRS link I provided earlier and splash your face with the cold water of reality. There is no legal requirement to implement the payroll tax cut until February 15th 2018. Case closed.
Click to expand...

There is also no legal requirement to award bonuses based on the tax cuts nor is there a legal requirement to increase wages. Still, the wage increases, the bonuses AND THE TAX CUTS all appeared in January for those fortunate to work for a living.

Why do you prefer fantasy to reality?

I can't believe that my fiancee and I are the only people in the US who saw a reduction in withholding on their paycheck.

Do YOU get a paycheck? What did it say?

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-...-giving-bonuses-wage-hikes-due-trump-tax-cuts

Some of the companies giving out raises and bonuses because of tax reform - Jan. 11, 2018

Federal tax cut showing up in paychecks already | abc7news.com
 
code1211 said:
There is also no legal requirement to award bonuses based on the tax cuts nor is there a legal requirement to increase wages. Still, the wage increases, the bonuses AND THE TAX CUTS all appeared in January for those fortunate to work for a living.

Why do you prefer fantasy to reality?

I can't believe that my fiancee and I are the only people in the US who saw a reduction in withholding on their paycheck.

Do YOU get a paycheck? What did it say?

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-...-giving-bonuses-wage-hikes-due-trump-tax-cuts

Some of the companies giving out raises and bonuses because of tax reform - Jan. 11, 2018

Federal tax cut showing up in paychecks already | abc7news.com
Click to expand...

The tax cuts did not immediately go into effect on all paychecks, nor was it legally required.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom