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Karl Marx's Das Kapital

Starvos

Starvos

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Got Fat copies of Marx's economic book Capital: Volume I, I & III coming my way in the mail. It's considered one of the most unreadable books on earth

I've so far only read the trimmed version online in a PDF, but I'm ready to dive in.

Have any of you read Capital? What do you think of Marxist economics? Should Marxist economics be taught alongside other economic schools in universities?
 
I find it ironic you partook in the capitalist system to get your books. ;)
 
Marxism (or extreme socialism) has not worked in the past, isnt working today (looking at you Cuba), and will not work in the future
 
Starvos said:
Got Fat copies of Marx's economic book Capital: Volume I, I & III coming my way in the mail. It's considered one of the most unreadable books on earth

I've so far only read the trimmed version online in a PDF, but I'm ready to dive in.

Have any of you read Capital? What do you think of Marxist economics? Should Marxist economics be taught alongside other economic schools in universities?
Click to expand...

I've read mostly excerpts from Kapital. A lot of serious and in depth discussion having to do with the exchange of labor for compensation. Marx was one of the earliest people to look at labor scientifically and as a commodity.

Unfortunately (for him) things changed radically and many of his concepts were obsolete because of those changes.

But that is my opinion. Read to your hearts content. I suggest though you might be helped by a college level book on Marxism. One that takes a dispassionate look at Marx and his writing.
 
Starvos said:
Got Fat copies of Marx's economic book Capital: Volume I, I & III coming my way in the mail. It's considered one of the most unreadable books on earth

I've so far only read the trimmed version online in a PDF, but I'm ready to dive in.

Have any of you read Capital? What do you think of Marxist economics? Should Marxist economics be taught alongside other economic schools in universities?
Click to expand...

Sure, there's a place for Marxist economics. If we have professors running around believing that markets are efficient then we might as well have some arguing from a Marxist perspective.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
It's a philosophy that leads to mass genocide like national socialism, but other than that it's sooper swell.
Click to expand...

Yes, and capitalist regimes has never been responsible for millions of deaths or genocides, right?
 
Fledermaus said:
I've read mostly excerpts from Kapital. A lot of serious and in depth discussion having to do with the exchange of labor for compensation. Marx was one of the earliest people to look at labor scientifically and as a commodity.

Unfortunately (for him) things changed radically and many of his concepts were obsolete because of those changes.

But that is my opinion. Read to your hearts content. I suggest though you might be helped by a college level book on Marxism. One that takes a dispassionate look at Marx and his writing.
Click to expand...

Anything to recommend books wise?
 
Starvos said:
Got Fat copies of Marx's economic book Capital: Volume I, I & III coming my way in the mail. It's considered one of the most unreadable books on earth

I've so far only read the trimmed version online in a PDF, but I'm ready to dive in.

Have any of you read Capital? What do you think of Marxist economics? Should Marxist economics be taught alongside other economic schools in universities?
Click to expand...

I don't know much about Marxist economics. I can understand the view that in a Capitalist society labor is exploited to generate wealth for a privileged class of people. As I understand it, in a Marxist society labor generates wealth that is then distributed to society through the state. If that basic assumption is correct I still don't see how Marxist economics would fix a problem. If the problem with Capitalism is that labor is exploited for the gain of the few, then the problem with Marxism seems to be that the few are just replaced with the state.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Not as a matter of policy no. care to name them?
Click to expand...

Pinochet's Chile, Nazi Germany, Fascist Spain's atrocities in the civil war, The right-wing killers in Nicaragua, endless atrocities done overseas by the US, the PKI massacre, the massacres of political dissidents during the korean war by the US and south korean army, smallpox blankets, US backed African and latin american dictators, the indian famines in the 1880's caused by the british exporting food from india, vietnam, the Western-backed invasion of the USSR in 1918, Batista's dictatorship, the shah, etc.
 
Starvos said:
Pinochet's Chile, Nazi Germany, Fascist Spain's atrocities in the civil war, The right-wing killers in Nicaragua, endless atrocities done overseas by the US, the PKI massacre, the massacres of political dissidents during the korean war by the US and south korean army, smallpox blankets, US backed African and latin american dictators, the indian famines in the 1880's caused by the british exporting food from india, vietnam, the Western-backed invasion of the USSR in 1918, Batista's dictatorship, the shah, etc.
Click to expand...

You are really into Marxism; youve got the half truth/stretching the truth thing down. I bet that works well in echo chambers.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
In your biased opinion you mean.
Click to expand...

"In the summer of 1950 in South Korea, anticommunists aided by the US executed at least 100,000 people suspected of supporting communism, in the Bodo League Massacre. For four decades the South Korean government concealed this massacre. Survivors were forbidden by the government from revealing it, under suspicion of being communist sympathizers. Public revelation carried with it the threat of torture and death. During the 1990s and onwards, several corpses were excavated from mass graves, resulting in public awareness of the massacre. 1"

"In 1965, The CIA overthrew the democratically elected Indonesian leader Sukarno with a military coup. The CIA had been trying to eliminate Sukarno since 1957, using everything from attempted assassination to sexual intrigue, for nothing more than his declaring neutrality in the Cold War. His successor, General Suharto, aided by the CIA, massacred between 500,000 to 1 million civilians accused of being communist, in the Indonesian mass killings of 1965-66. The US continued to support Suharto throughout the 70s, supplying weapons and planes.

"In 1969, The US initiated a secret carpet bombing campaign in eastern Cambodia, called, Operation Menu, and Operation Freedom Deal in 1970. An estimated 40,000 - 150,000 civilians were killed. Nixon lied about this campaign, but was later exposed, and one of the things that lead to his impeachment. 1"

"From 1982-89, The U.S. government attempted to topple the government of Nicaragua by secretly arming, training and funding the Contras, a terrorist group based in Honduras that was created to sabotage Nicaragua and to destabilize the Nicaraguan government.As part of the training, the CIA distributed a detailed "terror manual" entitled "Psychological Operations in Guerrilla War," which instructed the Contras, among other things, on how to blow up public buildings, to assassinate judges, to create martyrs, and to blackmail ordinary citizens. In 1986, the Nicaraguan government under the Sandinistas shoots down a C-123 transport plane carrying military supplies to the Contras. The lone survivor, Eugene Hasenfus, turns out to be a CIA employee, as are the two dead pilots, contradicting Reagan's claims that the US was not aiding the contras. 1"

These are only a couple of examples of US Imperialism. Deny this. I dare you.

Source: https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md#imperialism
 
Starvos said:
Pinochet's Chile, Nazi Germany, Fascist Spain's atrocities in the civil war, The right-wing killers in Nicaragua, endless atrocities done overseas by the US, the PKI massacre, the massacres of political dissidents during the korean war by the US and south korean army, smallpox blankets, US backed African and latin american dictators, the indian famines in the 1880's caused by the british exporting food from india, vietnam, the Western-backed invasion of the USSR in 1918, Batista's dictatorship, the shah, etc.
Click to expand...

You might want to do a head count....

I think you would be surprised.

The Soviet Union alone starved millions during the Holodormor. Not all were intentional but the numbers dwarf most of your examples combined. Then there are Mao Era slaughter. Last time I checked millions lost as well. Then there were the Killing fields. And just prior mass execution by the Viet Cong and to a lesser extent the NVA regulars.

I don't think the numbers are on your side.
 
Starvos said:
Got Fat copies of Marx's economic book Capital: Volume I, I & III coming my way in the mail. It's considered one of the most unreadable books on earth

I've so far only read the trimmed version online in a PDF, but I'm ready to dive in.

Have any of you read Capital? What do you think of Marxist economics? Should Marxist economics be taught alongside other economic schools in universities?
Click to expand...

I will admit that I once tried to read it but gave up. It is chloroform in print, an ideal cure for insomnia.
 
Starvos said:
"In the summer of 1950 in South Korea, anticommunists aided by the US executed at least 100,000 people suspected of supporting communism, in the Bodo League Massacre. For four decades the South Korean government concealed this massacre. Survivors were forbidden by the government from revealing it, under suspicion of being communist sympathizers. Public revelation carried with it the threat of torture and death. During the 1990s and onwards, several corpses were excavated from mass graves, resulting in public awareness of the massacre. 1"

"In 1965, The CIA overthrew the democratically elected Indonesian leader Sukarno with a military coup. The CIA had been trying to eliminate Sukarno since 1957, using everything from attempted assassination to sexual intrigue, for nothing more than his declaring neutrality in the Cold War. His successor, General Suharto, aided by the CIA, massacred between 500,000 to 1 million civilians accused of being communist, in the Indonesian mass killings of 1965-66. The US continued to support Suharto throughout the 70s, supplying weapons and planes.

"In 1969, The US initiated a secret carpet bombing campaign in eastern Cambodia, called, Operation Menu, and Operation Freedom Deal in 1970. An estimated 40,000 - 150,000 civilians were killed. Nixon lied about this campaign, but was later exposed, and one of the things that lead to his impeachment. 1"

"From 1982-89, The U.S. government attempted to topple the government of Nicaragua by secretly arming, training and funding the Contras, a terrorist group based in Honduras that was created to sabotage Nicaragua and to destabilize the Nicaraguan government.As part of the training, the CIA distributed a detailed "terror manual" entitled "Psychological Operations in Guerrilla War," which instructed the Contras, among other things, on how to blow up public buildings, to assassinate judges, to create martyrs, and to blackmail ordinary citizens. In 1986, the Nicaraguan government under the Sandinistas shoots down a C-123 transport plane carrying military supplies to the Contras. The lone survivor, Eugene Hasenfus, turns out to be a CIA employee, as are the two dead pilots, contradicting Reagan's claims that the US was not aiding the contras. 1"

These are only a couple of examples of US Imperialism. Deny this. I dare you.

Source: https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md#imperialism
Click to expand...

An unbiased site! It's an opinion piece.
 
Starvos said:
"In the summer of 1950 in South Korea, anticommunists aided by the US executed at least 100,000 people suspected of supporting communism, in the Bodo League Massacre. For four decades the South Korean government concealed this massacre. Survivors were forbidden by the government from revealing it, under suspicion of being communist sympathizers. Public revelation carried with it the threat of torture and death. During the 1990s and onwards, several corpses were excavated from mass graves, resulting in public awareness of the massacre. 1"

"In 1965, The CIA overthrew the democratically elected Indonesian leader Sukarno with a military coup. The CIA had been trying to eliminate Sukarno since 1957, using everything from attempted assassination to sexual intrigue, for nothing more than his declaring neutrality in the Cold War. His successor, General Suharto, aided by the CIA, massacred between 500,000 to 1 million civilians accused of being communist, in the Indonesian mass killings of 1965-66. The US continued to support Suharto throughout the 70s, supplying weapons and planes.

"In 1969, The US initiated a secret carpet bombing campaign in eastern Cambodia, called, Operation Menu, and Operation Freedom Deal in 1970. An estimated 40,000 - 150,000 civilians were killed. Nixon lied about this campaign, but was later exposed, and one of the things that lead to his impeachment. 1"

"From 1982-89, The U.S. government attempted to topple the government of Nicaragua by secretly arming, training and funding the Contras, a terrorist group based in Honduras that was created to sabotage Nicaragua and to destabilize the Nicaraguan government.As part of the training, the CIA distributed a detailed "terror manual" entitled "Psychological Operations in Guerrilla War," which instructed the Contras, among other things, on how to blow up public buildings, to assassinate judges, to create martyrs, and to blackmail ordinary citizens. In 1986, the Nicaraguan government under the Sandinistas shoots down a C-123 transport plane carrying military supplies to the Contras. The lone survivor, Eugene Hasenfus, turns out to be a CIA employee, as are the two dead pilots, contradicting Reagan's claims that the US was not aiding the contras. 1"

These are only a couple of examples of US Imperialism. Deny this. I dare you.

Source: https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md#imperialism
Click to expand...

I am aware of the anti-American propaganda campaign that Marxist have been waging for a great deal of time now. Oh and Cuba and Che have their own atrocities but hey this isnt a pissing contest. This is your thread where you get all propagandist about capitalism. Das kapitol is discredited by the fact that it violates sound science by using mental gymnastics to attack capitalism in order to introduce socialism as the replacement. Im sure that you are biting at the bit to release that 'unregulated capitalism' argument. Ill cut to the chase and point out that capitalism in America has never been unregulated. But I am sure that wont stop you from dragging out all of the bad things that have happened, and youll bend over backwards in trying to convince me that it was capitalism.

Then youll go on and on about how real communism has never existed. Then youll write off every bad socialist.communist regime as if they had nothing to do with Marx, Engles or Lenin any of those other fanatics. Then you will be overjoyed to tell me that Lenin was good and Stalin was bad. ANd if you are really getting into it you will go on about the teachings of Christ equals socialism and what not.

Then you will try every way that you can to talk bad about right leaning politics. Again Ill cut to the chase: the left and the right are not two separate villains in this story, they are both villains which depend on the others existence to validate their own existence. Two halves of the same rotten tomato.
 
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