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How does Libertarianism address the problem of systemic racism?

AGENT J said:
Right or wrong about what? What have you actually stated, thats what Im trying to find out.
when you answer ill be able to answer.

Dont run away from your statements, man up and support it. you are claiming something exists with a race of people and you cant tell us what percentage of that race you think falls under your subjective descriptions? how can you say its a factor if you dont know? Thats intellectually dishonest and makes no logical sense. you have am idea about the number. So percentage wise how many act like that and have subpar standards?

theres a precentage of men that are child molesters, we dont say men need to change their ways because we know the precentage is low.
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Sorry, what I have witnessed myself over the several decades I have lived, is real. I simply have no way of assigning a number to it without doing research that isn't important to me.

Besides. This thread is about "systemic racism." Not systemic poverty.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Sorry, what I have witnessed myself over the several decades I have lived, is real. I simply have no way of assigning a number to it without doing research that isn't important to me.

Besides. This thread is about "systemic racism." Not systemic poverty.
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nothing you just said matters to my question at all in anyway. The fact is you cant answer or you are scared too and thats exactly what i thought. To make the claim you did without being able to give a percentage is intellectually dishonest and absurd or cowardice.
 
AGENT J said:
nothing you just said matters to my question at all in anyway. The fact is you cant answer or you are scared too and thats exactly what i thought. To make the claim you did without being able to give a percentage is intellectually dishonest and absurd or cowardice.
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Or just not caring to try to convince you. I don't care what you think. Dismiss what I say if you want, or seek information yourself. I fon't really care. I put my two cents out there. Take it of leave it.
 
AGENT J said:
How many of "them" do you think act like that? percentage wise?
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There may be some degree that certain minorities are held back by society but the facts show that most of it isn't. It's also hard to measure, in any quantifiable way, how society effects minorities. At what point does it start and begin? Dunno because none of it is scientific or proven fact. East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews, despite a substantial amount of past social oppression, tend to get on not only fine but better than American whites.

Most of the struggle of mestizos and American blacks breaks down upon three key factors, in my opinion. Single motherhood, the welfare state, and IQ which effects many very important things such as deferral of gratification.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1520-iq-is-inherited-suggests-twin-study/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment
Single-Parent Families, by Race/Ethnicity | Data and Trends in Quality of Life for Greater Rochester Region
https://www.nap.edu/read/9719/chapter/8#157

Obviously the welfare state which, to some degree, can be linked to single motherhood is purely a government issue and the black family was much more stable prior to it. There is some science to suggest however that IQ and deferral of gratification while not only being correlated may very well have significant genetic influences as well.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Or just not caring to try to convince you. I don't care what you think. Dismiss what I say if you want, or seek information yourself. I fon't really care. I put my two cents out there. Take it of leave it.
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and another dodge and strawman. i didnt ask you to convince me of ANYTHING. I asked you what you feel the percentage is for the people you describe a certain way. I get it, you are afraid to answer or dont know thats already established, deflecting from that wont change it it just further confirms it. Nice try.
 
AGENT J said:
and another dodge and strawman. i didnt ask you to convince me of ANYTHING. I asked you what you feel the percentage is for the people you describe a certain way. I get it, you are afraid to answer or dont know thats already established, deflecting from that wont change it it just further confirms it. Nice try.
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No, I simply don't have a number and don't care to do you homework for you.

Get over it and stop harassing me over it.
 
Koke said:
There may be some degree that certain minorities are held back by society but the facts show that most of it isn't. It's also hard to measure, in any quantifiable way, how society effects minorities. At what point does it start and begin? Dunno because none of it is scientific or proven fact. East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews, despite a substantial amount of past social oppression, tend to get on not only fine but better than American whites.

Most of the struggle of mestizos and American blacks breaks down upon three key factors, in my opinion. Single motherhood, the welfare state, and IQ which effects many very important things such as deferral of gratification.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1520-iq-is-inherited-suggests-twin-study/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment
Single-Parent Families, by Race/Ethnicity | Data and Trends in Quality of Life for Greater Rochester Region
https://www.nap.edu/read/9719/chapter/8#157

Obviously the welfare state which, to some degree, can be linked to single motherhood is purely a government issue and the black family was much more stable prior to it. There is some science to suggest however that IQ and deferral of gratification while not only being correlated may very well have significant genetic influences as well.
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nothing you posted answers my question that I asked

ill ask again, what percentage of blacks:

were raised the wrong way in society.
project themselves the wrong way in society
act the wrong way in society.
are criminals
have parents tell them "the white man won't let you achieve anything."
Cant communicate well
are offensive to others
drop out
only speak ebonics
say f-word every other word
wear prison fairy pants
need to raise their own standards because the are sub-par

those were the subjective negatives mentioned for blacks, so im curious what that person feels or anybody feels the percentage is for blacks that match those things mentioned?
 
Lord of Planar said:
No, I simply don't have a number and don't care to do you homework for you.

Get over it and stop harassing me over it.
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Thats what I thought, you cant or are afraid too. It isnt MY homework its YOURS because YOU made the statment you cant support.

if you dont know how could you intellectually and honestly claim its a factor?

i mean logically if its 1% all those things you describe are meaningless right?

if its 80% then that changes things. Id say it does matter but then we'd have to look at if what you describe is true and why.

Seems you claim you dont know, but at the same time you feel it matters. . that simply doesnt make sense. Like I said I get it, you cant answer or are afraid. You keep confirming it with each dodge.
 
AGENT J said:
nothing you posted answers my question that I asked

ill ask again, what percentage of blacks:

were raised the wrong way in society.
project themselves the wrong way in society
act the wrong way in society.
are criminals
have parents tell them "the white man won't let you achieve anything."
Cant communicate well
are offensive to others
drop out
only speak ebonics
say f-word every other word
wear prison fairy pants
need to raise their own standards because the are sub-par

those were the subjective negatives mentioned for blacks, so im curious what that person feels or anybody feels the percentage is for blacks that match those things mentioned?
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I never agreed or disagreed with anything Lord of Planar said. I simply posted reasons as to why there may be dysfunction in society among, in this case, African Americans. I went on to list how the government impacts some of these issues. I could go on to discuss how a smaller government would fix some (not all issues). I'm not sure if Lord of Planar is articulating himself well on the issue but I think his general premise is black dysfunction in society. Dysfunction exists in any ethnic group sure, but objectively speaking there is more in the black community when you look at homicide rates, welfare collection, many forms of criminality, etc...

He also made clear his experience was clearly anecdotal which cannot be refuted or proven. I gave you more concrete data on the broad issue of dysfunction, sorry if I wasn't clear in my message.
 
Koke said:
1.)I never agreed or disagreed with anything Lord of Planar said. I simply posted reasons as to why there may be dysfunction in society among, in this case, African Americans. I went on to list how the government impacts some of these issues. I could go on to discuss how a smaller government would fix some (not all issues). I'm not sure if Lord of Planar is articulating himself well on the issue but I think his general premise is black dysfunction in society. Dysfunction exists in any ethnic group sure, but objectively speaking there is more in the black community when you look at homicide rates, welfare collection, many forms of criminality, etc...

He also made clear his experience was clearly anecdotal which cannot be refuted or proven. I gave you more concrete data on the broad issue of dysfunction, sorry if I wasn't clear in my message.
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I didnt claim you agree with him, i simply pointed out your post had nothing to do with the question I asked. so quoting me seems silly and confusing if you werent answering my question. No need for sorries, its fine, miscommunication happens all the times. Just saying my question is still unanswered.
 
Koke said:
I never agreed or disagreed with anything Lord of Planar said. I simply posted reasons as to why there may be dysfunction in society among, in this case, African Americans. I went on to list how the government impacts some of these issues. I could go on to discuss how a smaller government would fix some (not all issues). I'm not sure if Lord of Planar is articulating himself well on the issue but I think his general premise is black dysfunction in society. Dysfunction exists in any ethnic group sure, but objectively speaking there is more in the black community when you look at homicide rates, welfare collection, many forms of criminality, etc...

He also made clear his experience was clearly anecdotal which cannot be refuted or proven. I gave you more concrete data on the broad issue of dysfunction, sorry if I wasn't clear in my message.
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I definitely touch a nerve. I think he's in denial.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I definitely touch a nerve. I think he's in denial.
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LMAO oh sweet irony! Another deflection because you cant answer the question and or are to scared too. Would you like proof its a deflection? sure, simply qoute where in our exchange i denied anything about your post . . ready, go :)
When you can answer the question and back up your claim please let us know, thanks!
 
Absentglare said:
No:



The reason blacks aren't doing well isn't because they're inferior human beings, it's because we do not provide opportunities to our poor.
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So then you understand that the system IS weighted against the poor and you are not willing to provide special privileges to black poor people. Do you understand that if you were to produce something...that whites would end up using said program in larger numbers more than likely? Primarily because whites are the majority.
 
Absentglare said:
Just because something can be done one way doesn't mean that one way is the best way.
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Its difficult to understand what you are attempting to say, exactly what are you advocating.

Do you want the government to hand out free shovels to blacks or something like that?
 
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AGENT J said:
LMAO oh sweet irony! Another deflection because you cant answer the question and or are to scared too. Would you like proof its a deflection? sure, simply qoute where in our exchange i denied anything about your post . . ready, go :)
When you can answer the question and back up your claim please let us know, thanks!
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I don't think you understand the concept of irony.
 
AGENT J said:
and another dodge and strawman. i didnt ask you to convince me of ANYTHING. I asked you what you feel the percentage is for the people you describe a certain way. I get it, you are afraid to answer or dont know thats already established, deflecting from that wont change it it just further confirms it. Nice try.
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He answered you. you play games.
 
AGENT J said:
1.) again no matter how much you want it too it factually does not. you have to invent that in your head. its not present or suggested in the OP question at all.
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The title of the thread literally states, and I quote "How does Libertarianism address the problem of systemic racism."

AGENT J said:
since the government is not the main and sole source of the racism it would do nothing to address it.
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That's an assertion. Racism like all tribalism is fostered by the leaders of a tribe for the purposes of loyalty. Leaders like Nixon deliberately stoked the fires of racism in order to form a political base which they can ride to electoral victory. Racism may exist regardless of government, just look at what Donald Trump did. He exploited the feelings of racist whites to win election. He legitimized their angst and made them feel confident in it.

AGENT J said:
it would flourish with no real checks and balances. it would be worse. theres nothing logical that suggest otherwise.
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Nonsense. You overestimate the power of laws. Laws did not stop people from drinking alcohol. They haven't stopped people from doing drugs. They haven't stopped undocumented immigrants. The crime of Murder has been met with the severest punishment imaginable basically forever and yet it persists. Do you really think if that if murder was legalized we'd see a significan increase in it? Most people don't murder because they know it's wrong. The few people think it's acceptable can't help themselves. The laws don't matter to them until after the fact when they're trying to get away with it.

Laws can be successful when regulating the means to and end, but they rarely work when trying to ban the end itself.
 
AGENT J said:
He did? sorry i must of missed it, Could you please quote and tell me what percentage he told me then? Thanks!
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I tried to respond to a bunch of your posts today. I'm feeling the love, but searching your posts, I just shook my head, and walked away, :screwy
 
MrWonka said:
1.) The title of the thread literally states, and I quote "How does Libertarianism address the problem of systemic racism."


That's an assertion. Racism like all tribalism is fostered by the leaders of a tribe for the purposes of loyalty. Leaders like Nixon deliberately stoked the fires of racism in order to form a political base which they can ride to electoral victory. Racism may exist regardless of government, just look at what Donald Trump did. He exploited the feelings of racist whites to win election. He legitimized their angst and made them feel confident in it.



Nonsense. You overestimate the power of laws. Laws did not stop people from drinking alcohol. They haven't stopped people from doing drugs. They haven't stopped undocumented immigrants. The crime of Murder has been met with the severest punishment imaginable basically forever and yet it persists. Do you really think if that if murder was legalized we'd see a significan increase in it? Most people don't murder because they know it's wrong. The few people think it's acceptable can't help themselves. The laws don't matter to them until after the fact when they're trying to get away with it.

Laws can be successful when regulating the means to and end, but they rarely work when trying to ban the end itself.
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1.) correct you must of lost your place over the days because my reply was to you claiming that bigotry will always exist thats meaningless to the question and factually not what its about.
2.) I agree its a false assertion you made about the government and it doesn't float at all. losing part of the system will not lose the racists that are still here. so again libertarianism would not address it.
3.) who claimed laws would make it stop? oh thats right not me, sorry that starwman fails. The question is how would libertarianism address it, and it wouldnt in any significant fashion it would flourish
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
I tried to respond to a bunch of your posts today. I'm feeling the love, but searching your posts, I just shook my head, and walked away, :screwy
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Im sorry, you claimed the percentage was given, im waiting for you to show where, do you have that information? let us know when you do, thanks!
 
AGENT J said:
3.) who claimed laws would make it stop? oh thats right not me, sorry that starwman fails. The question is how would libertarianism address it, and it wouldnt in any significant fashion it would flourish
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HAHAHA!!!! So you admit laws aren't doing any good, but then criticize Libertarianism because it wants fewer of them?

Make up your mind buddy. Do you want to try and understand Libertarianism, or are you only here to bash it? Don't get me wrong there is plenty about it to bash, but you could at least try to grasp it before you criticize it.
 
MrWonka said:
1.) HAHAHA!!!! So you admit laws aren't doing any good, but then criticize Libertarianism because it wants fewer of them?
2.)Make up your mind buddy. Do you want to try and understand Libertarianism, or are you only here to bash it? Don't get me wrong there is plenty about it to bash, but you could at least try to grasp it before you criticize it.
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1.) please quote where i said laws arent doing and good. if you cant then you just got busted posting a lie, thanks
2.) again where did i bash it? i simply said it would not address what the OP asked. again tone down the dishonesty its not helping your failed claims.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Cool story.
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So you cant provide the percentage? ok i didnt think i missed it. fact remains my question was unanswered about the percentage of people who fit that discrimination. Thanks for proving it.
 
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