• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is Venezuela's economic problem due to inflation, or is it due to it not being productive?

imagep said:
Printing money was a response to inflation, not the cause of inflation. The misery of the people of Venezuela is caused by bare shelves, which is caused by their lack of productivity.

Although I do agree that politically, piss poor government policies is the cause of the lack of productivity.

Think through inflation step by step, from the viewpoint of a store owner. If you have lot's of products on your shelves, then why would you increase prices? You increase prices when you have a lack of products. Same with a farmer, if you have excess crops you aren't going to raise prices. Same way with a factory, if you have warehouses full of goods, you aren't going to raise prices.

Inadequate supply of goods to meet demand at current prices is always the cause of inflation.
Click to expand...

NO, printing money was in response to falling oil revenues.

Printing money goes haywire in Venezuella
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-08-28/printing-money-goes-haywire-in-venezuela

A lack of manufacturing and a reliance of imports was a consequence of corrupt Socialist mismanaging a centrally planned economy.

Importers, of-course do NOT want to be paid with worthless bolivars
 
Fenton said:
...

A lack of manufacturing and a reliance of imports was a consequence of corrupt Socialist mismanaging a centrally planned economy.

Importers, of-course do NOT want to be paid with worthless bolivars
Click to expand...

We are at least in agreement on the part I quoted above. But regardless of any money printing, there still would have been inflation due to a lack of goods available. Inflation is caused by there not being enough goods to meet demand at current price levels.

that said, massive money printing and helicoptering that money would obviously result in more demand, thus adding additional inflationary pressure.

Now if they had printed money, and used that money to create more factories and farms, so that demand could be satisfied with internal production, they probably would have never reached double digit inflation - so I have to agree with you that governmental mismanagement, and poor socialist economic policies were also a huge contributor to the lack of goods, thus massive inflation.

I couldn't read your link because I am not a Bloomberg Professional Service Subscriber.

So I am wondering, how was all this printed money distributed? Do they literally give money to every citizen without them having to earn it?
 
I wonder if there's any non ideological pro-free market military generals in Venezuela willing to overthrow the "elected" leaders and form a Junta
 
imagep said:
Venezuela inflation soars to 4,000% in 'death spiral' - Nov. 22, 2017

The article makes it sound like inflation is the issue, stating that people have to check the value of their money before heading to the grocery store to see if they have enough to purchase anything...
...then it says "if there is even anything on the shelves to buy".

Seems to me that lack of production is their real issue, inflation doesn't even matter if there is nothing to buy.
Click to expand...

Ultimately it has to do with the failed socialist revolution that attacked capitalism and I guess won.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
I wonder if there's any non ideological pro-free market military generals in Venezuela willing to overthrow the "elected" leaders and form a Junta
Click to expand...

Doubtful. Chavez removed the generals after the failed coup, turning the military into an arm of his party. Since then, all the party elites share the public wealth (corruption) and the loot from the drug trade. The only tiny hope left for the people of Venezuela is an armed insurrection. That is q very problematical hope for two or three reasons:

a) Venezuela made gun ownership illegal sometime ago. The population is largely unarmed (except for Maudro's party thugs).
b) No outside power is willing to aide insurrectionists - (i.e. the usual Soviet vs US proxy sources are no longer viable).
c) While the opposition is at least 2/3rds to 3/4s of the population, at least 1/4 of the population are diehard government supporters. Any insurrection would likely end in civil war.

There is no hope for liberty in Venezuela. It is now, and will continue to be, a dictatorship - the only hope would be one of Maudro's party allies turning on him...unlikely.
 
faithful_servant said:
It's not proof, but it is evidence that points to a problem with socialism.
Click to expand...

Or is it proof that there is a problem with poorly operated socialism where the government fails to ensure that it produces most of the products that it uses, and all of the products that it really needs.

I suppose the same thing could happen in a non-socialist country, but generally when capitalist recognize that there is a need for something, they start making that something, so I would think that free market capitalist countries are naturally less vulnerable to government miscalculations and poor planning.

An example of this would be the '70s and early '80s in the US, when we relied on foreign oil to the point that OPEC was able to cause double digit inflation and rationing at the pumps. Being more or less self sustaining is a vital national security interest just as much as a strong military is.
 
csbrown28 said:
if money is so-called "printed", most of it should be spent domestically in ways that increase domestic production on goods and services that would limit the need for foreign goods.
Click to expand...

spending printed money causes inflation not domestic production. 1+1=2
 
James972 said:
spending printed money causes inflation not domestic production. 1+1=2
Click to expand...

Not if there is enough goods and services to meet demand.

High school economic text books explain inflation as "too much money chasing after too few goods". We tend to focus on the first part and ignore the second part. But the first part is what should be ignored. I mean do you have too much money? Neither do I. I've never met anyone who thought they had "too much money".

Reality is that inflation is caused by inadequate supply to meet current demand at current price.

The last time that we had harmful inflation was in the early 1980's. So what caused that? Inadequate oil supply due to the OPEC embargo.
 
Soopairik said:
It's both.
Click to expand...

Not really.

And here is why...

as long as there is no shortage, it doesn't matter how much "money is chasing after goods", there will still not be inflation (aside from any cost push inflationary pressure).

However, if there is a shortage, regardless of the reason of that shortage, then the shortage will result in inflation.

About the only way that we could create "too much money" inflation is if we helicoptered money to the masses, with no expectation of a corresponding increase in production.

Which leads me to something that I have always wanted to start a thread on, but just never get around to doing. Is means tested welfare more inflationary than forms of government spending which result in the creation of infrastructure (including education and research along with physical infrastructure)? Since that first cycle of spending doesn't directly create anything additional, and since welfare may actually discourage some people from producing, then I suspect that welfare is at least somewhat inflationary.
 
imagep said:
Not if there is enough goods and services to meet demand.
Click to expand...

subject was Venezuela where low oil prices meant less revenue for govt which then printed money to make up shortfall which in turn caused inflation and depression. Now do you understand?
 
imagep said:
I mean do you have too much money? Neither do I. I've never met anyone who thought they had "too much money".
.
Click to expand...
dear, subject is not whether a person thinks he has too much money, but whether there is a point in time when money supply increases relative to goods and services and you thus generate inflation. You can't make progress without knowing what the subject is and staying
on it.
 
imagep said:
Reality is that inflation is caused by inadequate supply to meet current demand at current price.
Click to expand...

Venezuela and world supply of oil grew hugely ( it was not inadequate) , price collapsed, govt revenue collapsed, govt printed money and caused huge inflation. Do you understand?
 
imagep said:
The last time that we had harmful inflation was in the early 1980's. So what caused that? Inadequate oil supply due to the OPEC embargo.
Click to expand...
utter insanity no economists agrees. The huge inflation was caused by printing money and the huge inflation was eliminated by shrinking money supply!!! Got it now?
 
imagep said:
as long as there is no shortage, it doesn't matter how much "money is chasing after goods", there will still not be inflation (aside from any cost push inflationary pressure).
.
Click to expand...

if you double money supply tomorrow prices will double tomorrow because you have double the money chasing the same goods. Sorry to rock your world. Do you have the courage to learn?
 
imagep said:
However, if there is a shortage, regardless of the reason of that shortage, then the shortage will result in inflation.
Click to expand...

wrong of course. If oil supply were cut in half tomorrow and thus a shortage created there would be no inflation because their would be no more money to drive the general price level up. ECon 101 class one day one. Sorry
 
imagep said:
About the only way that we could create "too much money" inflation is if we helicoptered money to the masses, with no expectation of a corresponding increase in production.
Click to expand...

but thats what liberal governments do all the time rather than raise taxes. Do you understand?
 
imagep said:
Is means tested welfare more inflationary than forms of government spending which result in the creation of infrastructure (including education and research along with physical infrastructure)? .
Click to expand...

actually, neither is inflationary since neither change the money supply
 
imagep said:
I suspect that welfare is at least somewhat inflationary.
Click to expand...
it make no difference as regards inflation whether govt buys a bridge or a million welfare recipients buy a can of corn since it does not change the money supply. you have the same amount of money chasing the same amount of goods.
 
The USA has been trying like hell to get a foot in the door in VZ for a long time, I say we're behind it.
 
lefty louie said:
The USA has been trying like hell to get a foot in the door in VZ for a long time, I say we're behind it.
Click to expand...

1) bizarre conspiracy theory
2) you think USA is behind oil price collapse that collapsed Venezuela ??
 
James972 said:
1) bizarre conspiracy theory
2) you think USA is behind oil price collapse that collapsed Venezuela ??
Click to expand...

All one needs to do is look at the failed attempt
To put there own puppet in place.
 
James972 said:
what puppet??? Why so afraid to tell us??
Click to expand...

Not afraid of anything, maybe it's new years eve and I'm short on time, maybe I want to see how informed you are, or assume you know who I'm talking about, maybe I figure you should look it up yourself being you're the one that doesn't know. When you have the time look up Pedro Carmona, who was in office all of about 1 day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom