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Bitcoin

I see bitcoin continuing to surge in value, well over $10,000. People that put money into this will be happy but I always get a sense its value is destined to fall eventually, perhaps crash under $1,000.

Any thoughts on this cryptocurrency?

The US could virtually end cryptocurrency by an outright banning based on many reasons.
 
Yeah, this is what I see being the eventual death of cryptocurrency. Eventually the amount of money tied up in it gets large enough for the government to start paying attention.
Ya, this looks like a gambling fad that will drive interest in regulating the internet, governments can not turn a blind eye towards this degree of recklessness, though with as reckless as governments have become their standing is not the best.

I have the BIG CRASH on my calendar for 2027, the decades or generation long crash the ends the current world order, we will get to this then if not before.
 
So in the same day I read both that by using a ton of energy these schemes are unhackable, and that they have already been hacked....and this is as we are frantically trying to save the planet by going on an energy diet.

"Houston, we have a problem".

One thing that they dont seem to ever talk about, that there are hundreds of types of cryptocurrency. Many cryptocurrencies have failed.

What I find strange is that cryptocurrency gets most of it value by the code be strong. Then they try to tell you that your wallet and the system is impossible to hack. lol yet there seems to be a lot of hacking going on.
 
One thing that they dont seem to ever talk about, that there are hundreds of types of cryptocurrency. Many cryptocurrencies have failed.

What I find strange is that cryptocurrency gets most of it value by the code be strong. Then they try to tell you that your wallet and the system is impossible to hack. lol yet there seems to be a lot of hacking going on.

Also if you forget your code your money is lost, there is no way to recover but ya getting robbed has to be the bigger fear, especially when we read that Russia just supplied the North Koreans with a second internet trunk line.
 
Another major threat is govt intervention, particularly as illicit/tax dodging uses become more common, and financial markets dangerously increase their exposure to it/other cryptos as they almost surely will, but this isn't as inevitable and assured as said technical limits.

China tried that, outlawing bitcoin and all cryptocurrencies. 80% of bitcoin transactions are still among the Chinese.
 
China tried that, outlawing bitcoin and all cryptocurrencies. 80% of bitcoin transactions are still among the Chinese.

We've had this discussion before; as previously stated, one country banning BTC isn't going to sink it (though no doubt BTC would be higher assuming that it was still fully legal to transact in China), but if all major economies do, the value will be harmed significantly and lastingly even though people would still be able to transact them on an individual basis. You seemed to acknowledge this, albeit countering that governments wouldn't attempt something so heavy handed specifically because the economic damage would be so severe which is, at this point, hogwash given the limited public exposure, with cryptos being cited as a potential future concern albeit one that does not presently threaten fundamental financial stability.

Further the ban wasn't at all total; it's still legal to own and transact crypto as a Chinese citizen so long as you do not conduct an exchange with a counterparty based in mainland China specifically (Hong Kong for example is still fair game).

Anyways, not interested in retreading old ground. As stated, you're welcome to believe that A: cryptos won't be affected by a global govt crackdown and B: that such a crackdown could never possibly happen; it's your money, gamble with it as you wish.
 
Also if you forget your code your money is lost, there is no way to recover but ya getting robbed has to be the bigger fear, especially when we read that Russia just supplied the North Koreans with a second internet trunk line.

You can get robbed? I was drunk in Milwaukee going down a street at night in the "hood" with no street lights on (power was out or something), and got suckered punch hard enough (and robbed of what i had been holding in my hand) that I had a concussion (still was standing on my feet). You don't need Bitcoin to get robbed. You can have jewelry, money, or guns in your house and that get robbed while you are gone away from the house. You can let you 7 year-old daughter out the door, she get abducted, and someone robs her from you for the rest of your life.

Robbery has been going on before Bitcoin ever came around. So has drug dealing.
 
You can get robbed? I was drunk in Milwaukee going down a street at night in the "hood" with no street lights on (power was out or something), and got suckered punch hard enough (and robbed of what i had been holding in my hand) that I had a concussion (still was standing on my feet). You don't need Bitcoin to get robbed. You can have jewelry, money, or guns in your house and that get robbed while you are gone away from the house. You can let you 7 year-old daughter out the door, she get abducted, and someone robs her from you for the rest of your life.

Robbery has been going on before Bitcoin ever came around. So has drug dealing.

And it is always a problem, more so when we have no control over our safety.
 
So in the same day I read both that by using a ton of energy these schemes are unhackable, and that they have already been hacked....and this is as we are frantically trying to save the planet by going on an energy diet.

"Houston, we have a problem".

Eh... I see you have not looked into crypto too much. As in all the varying cryptocurrency start ups. Apparently, repeating the term 1st Generation [technology] for Bitcoin doesn't mean anything to you. Do you have a flip phone or something? Because I don't have a "flagship" phone but mine is still 4G or 4th Generation with a 1080p HD resolution screen. More miraculous to me it is tying into the "internet-of-things" (at a very infant level from what the big brains in IT bring and are working hard to one day bring to reality) and I'm still easily impressed (like a little kid almost) at Google Assistance on my phone that responds to my voice commands. Amazing, had someone told me in 1980 when I was kid something like this would exist I would have thought they spent too much time watching Sci-Fi.

But you live and learn. I've learned over the things technology will likely change over time. It already has in my lifetime thus far. And I've learned some trades and jobs either can go extinct or just diminish greatly in numbers. So, how do I mean? Well... my German-American grandfather was watch maker and retired as such. Raised his large family in middle class lifestyle by fixing other peoples watches. Yes, there used to be a large market for fixing watches. Where the hell are they today? They are not totally extent but damn near.

Now, most watches are disposable items (not luxury watches), you simply throw it away and buy a new one. But lots of people no longer buy watches. Smart phones give the time and date (hell the weather and your location).

So, you are saying has been hacked? I think you are talking about the crypto-currency exchanges and not the blockchain.

As I have said earlier in this thread... I don't understand the complex math behind the blockchain. But then I don't understand it for any computer programing. I understand little to nothing as to how anything on the internet works, I just know how to tap keys or push mouse buttons and access the stuff available on the internet. So, because I fail to understand the complex math and physics undergirding the internet does that mean the internet was going to stop advancing because of me? No.

I have never been emotionally invested in Bitcoin or the blockchain. I have been interested in trying to get a fair grasp on what if any future it may have. So,ead some things and watched some things, even people like Peter Schiff disagreeing with Max Keiser. Ultimately one has to decide for themselves which camp they think is most right. The anti-crypto people like you or the pro-crypto people.

The fact the vast majority of you anti-crypto people know less than me about crypto does not persuade me to believe you all. In fact, Intelligent Designer people that dismiss the Theory of Evolution know more about the Theory of Evolution they dismiss than most of you know about crypto. For whatever reason most of you all are emotionally invested in your position like Coal Mining Country.

Maybe next election Trump should run under a anti-Bitcoin platform. You all would suck that up.



 
And it is always a problem, more so when we have no control over our safety.

Are you trying to say people that have bought Bitcoin have no, zero, control over their financial safety? How do you figure that?

I use digital (debit card) currency over the internet especially with Amazon. But with other places too. I don't use my debit card over my phone though, because I still have not placed faith in the security of that. But I don't ridicule others that do.

Problem seems solved with this: if you don't believe in crypto or the blockchain then don't buy cryptocurrency. Kind of like I don't use my debit card on my phone to purchase things.




(By the way... crypto is already being tied to Gold. Not Bitcoin. But some other newer cryptos. One would know that had they spent a fraction time looking into this stuff.)
 
Also if you forget your code your money is lost, there is no way to recover but ya getting robbed has to be the bigger fear, especially when we read that Russia just supplied the North Koreans with a second internet trunk line.

That is only a problem if you are foolish enough to not back up your privkey. And unlike cash, you can back it up in multiple places. For example, I keep a copy on an encrypted thumb drive on my key chain, on an encrypted offline laptop, and a paper copy in a bank safety deposit box so my family can access it if something ever happens to me.

Hacking is only a danger if you keep your privkey on a computer connected to the internet, which is the problem with trusting third party online wallets with any sizeable amount of bitcoin. Online wallets are convenient but you should treat bitcoin in online wallets like you do with cash in your real wallet. Don’t put more in it than you can afford to lose and keep the rest somewhere safe.
 
Eh... I see you have not looked into crypto too much. As in all the varying cryptocurrency start ups. Apparently, repeating the term 1st Generation [technology] for Bitcoin doesn't mean anything to you. Do you have a flip phone or something? Because I don't have a "flagship" phone but mine is still 4G or 4th Generation with a 1080p HD resolution screen. More miraculous to me it is tying into the "internet-of-things" (at a very infant level from what the big brains in IT bring and are working hard to one day bring to reality) and I'm still easily impressed (like a little kid almost) at Google Assistance on my phone that responds to my voice commands. Amazing, had someone told me in 1980 when I was kid something like this would exist I would have thought they spent too much time watching Sci-Fi.

But you live and learn. I've learned over the things technology will likely change over time. It already has in my lifetime thus far. And I've learned some trades and jobs either can go extinct or just diminish greatly in numbers. So, how do I mean? Well... my German-American grandfather was watch maker and retired as such. Raised his large family in middle class lifestyle by fixing other peoples watches. Yes, there used to be a large market for fixing watches. Where the hell are they today? They are not totally extent but damn near.

Now, most watches are disposable items (not luxury watches), you simply throw it away and buy a new one. But lots of people no longer buy watches. Smart phones give the time and date (hell the weather and your location).

So, you are saying has been hacked? I think you are talking about the crypto-currency exchanges and not the blockchain.

As I have said earlier in this thread... I don't understand the complex math behind the blockchain. But then I don't understand it for any computer programing. I understand little to nothing as to how anything on the internet works, I just know how to tap keys or push mouse buttons and access the stuff available on the internet. So, because I fail to understand the complex math and physics undergirding the internet does that mean the internet was going to stop advancing because of me? No.

I have never been emotionally invested in Bitcoin or the blockchain. I have been interested in trying to get a fair grasp on what if any future it may have. So,ead some things and watched some things, even people like Peter Schiff disagreeing with Max Keiser. Ultimately one has to decide for themselves which camp they think is most right. The anti-crypto people like you or the pro-crypto people.

The fact the vast majority of you anti-crypto people know less than me about crypto does not persuade me to believe you all. In fact, Intelligent Designer people that dismiss the Theory of Evolution know more about the Theory of Evolution they dismiss than most of you know about crypto. For whatever reason most of you all are emotionally invested in your position like Coal Mining Country.

Maybe next election Trump should run under a anti-Bitcoin platform. You all would suck that up.

This is a distinction without a difference, my money is gone either way, I cant protect myself from it either as I cant tell who will do their best to keep it from being taken, and I dont know that the best will be good enough which is even worse than was the situation with bank security in the Wild West.
 
This is a distinction without a difference, my money is gone either way, I cant protect myself from it either as I cant tell who will do their best to keep it from being taken, and I dont know that the best will be good enough which is even worse than was the situation with bank security in the Wild West.

It's not a distinction without a difference. Criminals hack into a centralized computer system. At least easier than a decentralized system. The blockchain increases security than your banking system today because no one computer handles anything. There are multiple computers all over the country or all over the world--randomly--processing different parts of a single transaction. So, how the hell is a hacker going to "hack" a single "block" transaction when part of that block is being processed in California, another part in Nairobi in Africa, another part in in England, and in a random process or nearly random. That's not like hacking into the Pentagon which has a central location.

The crypto exchanges are like the Pentagon. They have a centralized location. At least that is my understanding.

You're insinuating using modern banking with modern digital currency that is *not* cryptocurrency some how does not have "hacking" and theft problems. But then why do I hear in Milwaukee local news about people getting digitally robbed (not by guns or armed robbers) at ATMs?



Card skimming at ATMs affecting hundreds in at least three counties

TODAY’S TMJ4
Published on Sep 22, 2015


Have you swiped your credit or debit card recently? If so, you could be a victim of card skimming.




How to Keep Your Credit Card Safe from 'Skimming'

ABC News
Published on Sep 18, 2014


This high-tech pickpocketing technique accounts for the majority of ATM fraud each year.
 
How is it hard to sell? I acquire and sell btc 2 or 3 times a week. I sold about $2,000 of it this morning. Took 30 seconds to put in the order and about 10 minutes to show up in my bank account. But there is a learning curve.
Transactions have to be confirmed by at least 6 miners. As the number of transactions increases, the blockchain is getting congested, and it takes longer to process transactions. It can take hours when volume is high.

Exchanges can also be volatile themselves -- bogged down and crashing when there is high trading volume.

Also, many exchanges (like Coinbase) have limits. Obviously, you can't liquidate your position if the exchange you use sets a limit on how much you can sell at one time.

For an extreme example: https://twitter.com/TedOnPrivacy/status/940588631709896704
 
At least easier than a decentralized system. The blockchain increases security than your banking system today because no one computer handles anything.
You sure about that?

Mt Gox was destroyed by years of theft, in which 776k BTC was stolen. Customers lost their holdings, and despite the bankruptcy trustee making substantial recoveries, those customers may never be repaid. (Japanese law favors shareholders, not customers or creditors, in a bankruptcy.) Not to mention that the entire process is mired in litigation.
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/bitcoin-gox/

Bitfinex, 120k BTC stolen
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-bitfinex-exchange-in-hong-kong-idUSKCN10E0KP

NiceHash was hit for 4700 BTC recently
NiceHash: More than $70 million stolen in bitcoin hack - Dec. 7, 2017

Tether was whacked for around 3800 BTC
https://tether.to/tether-critical-announcement/

Bitcoin Gold wallets got hit for $3.2 million, site also got hit with a DDoS
https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-gold-wa...-2-million-after-stealing-users-private-keys/

You don't need to hack the blockchain. You just have to go after online wallets and exchanges.

Oh, and you can actually manipulate Bitcoin by controlling more than 50% of miners; having that much influence means you could edit the transaction record, and block the recording of new transactions. (This is known as the "51% attack" or "Majority Hash Rate attack"). Ghash.io went over 51% a few years ago, and people freaked out about it... with good reason. Today, nearly 30% of mining is done by Bitmain.


The reality is that Bitcoin is far less secure than USD in a savings or checking account. The banks are constantly looking for fraud, have insurance if they don't catch the fraud immediately, and the FDIC insures accounts up to $250,000.

Equally important is that no one backs it; no one controls it. While this has an appeal to the Tin Foil Hat brigade, the reality is that (as I've said several times in this thread) this undermines its ability to function as a currency, because no one can stabilize it. With cryptocurrencies, there are millions of speculators pushing for precisely the opposite -- they are trying to destabilize its value and exchange rate, and exploit the volatility in an attempt to make Free Money (i.e. take away money from other speculators who guessed wrong). Bitcoin whales and others can also manipulate the market, in the short term, for their own gain.

I.e. by the very structure of cryptocurrency, you can have substantial holdings one day, and substantial losses the next. That's a big premium to pay for the illusion of security.

By the way, I may be wrong, but I believe banks are starting to look into blockchain as a better way to protect their databases. I don't know specifics on this, though. Large banks certainly have the capacity to distribute a blockchain, or similar transaction ledger, across multiple physical locations (which they are probably doing in some form by now anyway).
 
Transactions have to be confirmed by at least 6 miners. As the number of transactions increases, the blockchain is getting congested, and it takes longer to process transactions. It can take hours when volume is high.

Exchanges can also be volatile themselves -- bogged down and crashing when there is high trading volume.

Also, many exchanges (like Coinbase) have limits. Obviously, you can't liquidate your position if the exchange you use sets a limit on how much you can sell at one time.

For an extreme example: https://twitter.com/TedOnPrivacy/status/940588631709896704

I stick with trusted individuals I met through p2p exchanges like localbitcoins.com. We generally wait for 3 confirmations. You can get around the congestion by increasing your Satoshis/byte transaction fee. Granted, if you are moving small amounts of bitcoin the fee may not be worth what you are moving. If you move larger amounts, like me, it definitely is.
 
Bitcoin has a limit on the number of transactions per second it is capable of, which makes it incapable of actually functioning as a currency. The result is that it trades not as a currency, but as a commodity. You buy them based on the hopes you can sell them to someone else for more dollars than you paid in the first place.

A commodity.... that doesn't really exist.
 
I understand investors wanting it to get to $100,000 but for people like me who use it just as a means of exchange, these tiny decimal amounts get annoying.

More and more it's seeming like Bitcoin is verging towards being the "gold" of the crypto-current market. A scarce commodity that serves to hold value and is worth significant amounts which is used as the basis for sizable transactions centered around obtaining more easily tradable currency.

I think a variety of coins with greater ability in terms of the amount of transactions over a period of time and the fees associated with it (here's where I shill a bit of XRB) will end up latching on in the future as the new "old bitcoin" that is used for online transactions, with Bitcoin maintaining a status as the foundation in which most of the various cryptos are purchased.

Then again, full implementation of segwit and lightning may change things around and allow Bitcoin to function better for widescale smaller amount purchases in the coming years.
 
That was the funniest thing I have seen in a while. :) Brilliant. Whoever wrote those lyrics either had first hand experience or did some serious research.

I absolutely lost it when the lights in the background spelled out "HODL". Then he piled meme on top of meme with the Doge reference at the end.

Now excuse me as I go back to crying over my money being tied up for 10 days between the bank and coinbase as XRB went from $3 to $30 on me.
 
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