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Thread: Bitcoin

  1. #21
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    Re: Bitcoin

    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealistik View Post
    It's also a great instrument for tax evasion and conducting all kinds of illicit business; cyber cash. Not a fan. And yes, it may be better for the vendor, but a raw deal for the buyer.

    As a transacting tool I'm not sure how much true appeal it has given how unstable and volatile its value is; I wouldn't accept this as payment unless I'm getting a very considerable risk premium, unless I can somehow arrange a way to dump the stuff about instantly (even the intraday swings are ****ing huge), or at least a large % of it; if you could do that + easy, dynamic real time pricing to fix your price I could see it going places.
    I just remembered one advantage for the buyer. If you purchase something online with bitcoin, particularly a digital product that doesn't require shipping, there is no risk of identity theft. There is no third party with your name and credit card or debit card number out there that could be compromised.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Bitcoin

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I see bitcoin continuing to surge in value, well over $10,000. People that put money into this will be happy but I always get a sense its value is destined to fall eventually, perhaps crash under $1,000.

    Any thoughts on this cryptocurrency?
    To start with, looking at a currency as though it's an asset -- or worse yet, a lottery ticket, or a gold mine -- is downright moronic.

    Currencies aren't supposed to fluctuate massively in value. No one who actually wants to use the currency should want it to go from $6400 to $8200 in the space of one week. That's an incredible level of deflation, the likes of which defeat its actual purpose as a currency.

    For example, imagine that you want to purchase something using Bitcoin. If you used 0.0016 BTC to buy a movie ticket last week, that's the equivalent of spending $10 for it. However, today that same amount is worth $13 -- meaning that movie has effectively cost you an extra $3! And why? Because a bunch of speculators are jumping all over this, hypnotized by a chart that keeps going up.

    Similarly, the technical barriers for using Bitcoin are quite high, meaning the only people who will actually use it as a currency are those who are highly motivated to do so, i.e. those who want to move money in a way that is difficult to trace. This basically means people engaged in criminal activity, and the super-paranoid. That's not a good look.

    There is no way to know when, or even if, this bubble will burst. There are so few bitcoins, and the supply is so strictly limited, that it can keep going for who knows how long. When it does burst, it will be ugly for some time. And who knows, it could quickly recover (like it did in September 2017), or it could crater.

    It is possible that more rational cryptocurrencies will be able to, well, act more like currencies. The more likely outcome, though, is that blockchain technology will separate from currencies, and be used far more widely than cryptocurrencies.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Bitcoin

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic Bob View Post
    I just remembered one advantage for the buyer. If you purchase something online with bitcoin, particularly a digital product that doesn't require shipping, there is no risk of identity theft. There is no third party with your name and credit card or debit card number out there that could be compromised.
    TBH, most credit card issuers are pretty good about thwarting and even preempting identity theft these days though, and the risk is pretty small if you know what you're doing, whereas the consumer protections involved with credit card use are consistently useful; in general credit cards are a better deal for the purchaser as opposed to bitcoin (to say nothing of those that have cash back incentives/rebates for purchases; one gives me a 2% credit for anything I buy with it!).
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  4. #24
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    Re: Bitcoin

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic Bob View Post
    I use bitcoin quite often and my business even accepts it as a form of payment.
    What service(s) and software would you recommend to convert hard currency to bitcoin and hold it?
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  5. #25
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    Re: Bitcoin

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    What service(s) and software would you recommend to convert hard currency to bitcoin and hold it?
    Well, buying bitcoin and holding bitcoin are two different things. I personally like the flexibility of buying bitcoin at localbitcoins.com. They have traders who take just about every form of payment.

    Now, once you bought the bitcoin you could just leave them in your localbitcoins.com but that is the equivalent of trusting a third party with your money. If they go out of business and shut down without warning your bitcoin are gone. A more secure method is to use a software bitcoin wallet on your own computer. Make sure to back up your private keys in case something happens to your computer.

    You can find a list of vetted software here:

    https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

    I have found that Electrum is a good balance of security and ease of use.
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    Re: Bitcoin

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    bit coin is 100% a gamble. it is highly unstable and kinda shady. governments are already cracking down on it.
    I do believe that the US government has already labeled it a commodity not a currency so that right there was a huge blow
    to it. it also makes sense and is consistent with other federal laws that the only organization that can issue currency is
    the treasury department. what this also means is that you cannot buy anything with bitcoins. you would have to sell them off for
    dollars just like any other commodity.
    The governments cracking down on bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are those most afraid of them because they can't control them. Cryptocurrencies have provided safe havens for those hiding cash from their own governments from underground economies. Among those using cryptocurrencies are those dealing in contraband (i.e. illicit drug wholesalers, armaments dealers, pharmaceuticals, even food stuffs in countries like Venezuela where gov't owned store shelves are empty, and so on).

    Take a good look out there at how many sites accept bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies for purchases of goods and services. Of course they are in use despite governmental interventions. Even call girls and escort services are advertising they will accept bitcoins. If only Elliot Spitzer had known, he wouldn't have been caught so easily in his black socks.

    Every commodity transaction is a gamble, so is every currency trade.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Bitcoin

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic Bob View Post
    I just remembered one advantage for the buyer. If you purchase something online with bitcoin, particularly a digital product that doesn't require shipping, there is no risk of identity theft. There is no third party with your name and credit card or debit card number out there that could be compromised.
    That might rely on the digital wallet you've chosen to utilize. How secure is it, along with personal information of registrants? That is what caused the first bitcoin crash, an improperly secured exchange.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Bitcoin

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    To start with, looking at a currency as though it's an asset -- or worse yet, a lottery ticket, or a gold mine -- is downright moronic.

    Currencies aren't supposed to fluctuate massively in value. No one who actually wants to use the currency should want it to go from $6400 to $8200 in the space of one week. That's an incredible level of deflation, the likes of which defeat its actual purpose as a currency.

    For example, imagine that you want to purchase something using Bitcoin. If you used 0.0016 BTC to buy a movie ticket last week, that's the equivalent of spending $10 for it. However, today that same amount is worth $13 -- meaning that movie has effectively cost you an extra $3! And why? Because a bunch of speculators are jumping all over this, hypnotized by a chart that keeps going up.

    Similarly, the technical barriers for using Bitcoin are quite high, meaning the only people who will actually use it as a currency are those who are highly motivated to do so, i.e. those who want to move money in a way that is difficult to trace. This basically means people engaged in criminal activity, and the super-paranoid. That's not a good look.

    There is no way to know when, or even if, this bubble will burst. There are so few bitcoins, and the supply is so strictly limited, that it can keep going for who knows how long. When it does burst, it will be ugly for some time. And who knows, it could quickly recover (like it did in September 2017), or it could crater.

    It is possible that more rational cryptocurrencies will be able to, well, act more like currencies. The more likely outcome, though, is that blockchain technology will separate from currencies, and be used far more widely than cryptocurrencies.
    Currency traders make good money on the volatilities of multiple currencies. If you fear bubbles and consequent losses, don't play the market. Avoid tulips at all costs. But keep in mind you don't have to play forward, you can bet against a market. Hedge your bets. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
    What kind of a man is a man who has not left this world a better place?

    No one is in control.

  9. #29
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    Re: Bitcoin

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    The governments cracking down on bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are those most afraid of them because they can't control them. Cryptocurrencies have provided safe havens for those hiding cash from their own governments from underground economies. Among those using cryptocurrencies are those dealing in contraband (i.e. illicit drug wholesalers, armaments dealers, pharmaceuticals, even food stuffs in countries like Venezuela where gov't owned store shelves are empty, and so on).

    Take a good look out there at how many sites accept bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies for purchases of goods and services. Of course they are in use despite governmental interventions. Even call girls and escort services are advertising they will accept bitcoins. If only Elliot Spitzer had known, he wouldn't have been caught so easily in his black socks.

    Every commodity transaction is a gamble, so is every currency trade.
    Governments can control it via control/regulations of exchanges and in general transacting/converting bitcoins.

    Yes, government can never achieve total and absolute control, and individuals can still freely trade the things, but the extent of their control, should they decide to exert it, is certainly enough to be highly material: corporations, businesses and so on will likely not take on the legal/regulatory risk, which would significantly and severely limit the scope, penetration, depth and breadth of Bitcoin use, as well as its value.

    A determined government can thereby absolutely do severe damage to the prospects and value of Bitcoin, and its broadbased utility, nevermind many governments of large economies working in concert.
    "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." -Alberto Brandolini

  10. #30
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    Re: Bitcoin

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    That might rely on the digital wallet you've chosen to utilize. How secure is it, along with personal information of registrants? That is what caused the first bitcoin crash, an improperly secured exchange.
    Well sure, if you trust a third party with your personal information there is a risk it could be compromised. None of the wallets I have used, online or offline, are connected to my personal information.

    Now, exchanges like Coinbase are a little different. Because they are a place for people to convert bitcoin to fiat currency and back, they have to meet certain KYC laws. So if you want to exchange a significant amount then you have to provide ID and banking info.

    However, if you aren't comfortable with that then just stick to person-to-person trading rather than dealing with institutional exchanges.

    Now, if you want to make it impossible for your bitcoin to be stolen then just store your private keys on an offline computer or create a paper back up of them. There is always a trade off between convenience and security.
    “In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams, Hitchhiker's Guide

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