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Unfair upper-income taxation

TurtleDude said:
your position is based on a parasitic belief it appears. we make failure too easy in this country and too many people are addicted to government. btw the income tax is not a wealth tax, a wealth tax is disgusting
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My position is based on not wanting huge tax rises for the lower and middle classes in order to fund huge tax cuts to the top 1%. You have historic low tax rates and you still complain and demand people poorer than you must pay for a tax cut for yourself. Pure greed.

You talk about making failure easy yet you want vast swathes of the middle class to be broken by huge tax rises just so you and your wealthy friends can be even richer.
 
Lafayette said:
The purpose of an economic system is not the myopic accumulation of capital per se. It is (or should be) the well-being of ALL the people within the nation who share the benefits of their hard-earned work. And it should be a national objective to assure - not equal shares of the abundance - but equitable shares. Which is what taxation was intended to do, but amply fails at doing presently.
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Equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.
 
Aristaeus said:
My position is based on not wanting huge tax rises for the lower and middle classes in order to fund huge tax cuts to the top 1%. You have historic low tax rates and you still complain and demand people poorer than you must pay for a tax cut for yourself. Pure greed.

You talk about making failure easy yet you want vast swathes of the middle class to be broken by huge tax rises just so you and your wealthy friends can be even richer.
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The purpose of taxes is not social justice, its to pay for government.
 
OpportunityCost said:
The purpose of taxes is not social justice, its to pay for government.
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A government that cannot provide justice and a basic sense of security and safety for its citizens, even the ones who hit hard times, is not worthy of the name. It makes for an unstable society which cannot survive for long.

"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich."
-John F. Kennedy
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ataraxia said:
A government that cannot provide justice and a basic sense of security and safety for its citizens is not worthy of the name.
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Equal justice does not guarantee lifestyle, it guarantees the right to pursue it. Where do you read that equal justice means you take from one person and give to another?
 
OpportunityCost said:
Equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.
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When young children are growing up in crime and drug-ridden neighborhoods, when they are not getting lunch, there is no equal opportunity.
 
OpportunityCost said:
The purpose of taxes is not social justice, its to pay for government.
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The two often go hand in hand. And the wealthiest should pay the most, or do you have the same opinion as Turtledude and think the lower and middle classes should have massive tax hikes in order to pay for massive tax cuts to the top 1%?
 
Aristaeus said:
The two often go hand in hand. And the wealthiest should pay the most, or do you have the same opinion as Turtledude and think the lower and middle classes should have massive tax hikes in order to pay for massive tax cuts to the top 1%?
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I didn't say that, did I? I said the purpose of taxes is to pay for government not to redistribute wealth in an enormous game of bread and circuses.
 
OpportunityCost said:
I didn't say that, did I? I said the purpose of taxes is to pay for government not to redistribute wealth in an enormous game of bread and circuses.
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Think of it as insurance against a Russian revolution style revolt. People will not just quietly starve to death.
 
OpportunityCost said:
I would say where are their parents?
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Nowhere to be found, for some. Others, they are drug addicted and broke, or in jail.

So now what? Tell those kindergartners it's their fault for being so stupid and lazy and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps like you did?
 
calamity said:
Why punish people for earning more money? It's a dumb system. With progressive income tax, we are literally building in systemic disincentives to earn more.
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Adam Smith, considered by most to be the father of capitalism, didn't think so.

"The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state."
(Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations)
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ataraxia said:
Adam Smith, considered by most to be the father of capitalism, didn't think so.
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Sure. The "you didn't build that" theory has merit. Of course, we all use the state's resources and protections to make our money. Nonetheless, I do not like seeing labor taxed.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.
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No opportunity, no outcomes!

Fourteen percent of the American population is obliged to live below the Poverty Threshold. That's 45 million men, women and children that are incarcerated there. [

The population combined of California and Maryland ...

And "so what", you say .... ?
 
TurtleDude said:
Donald Dork?
Yawn. Most of us in the top one percent are not billionaires and we pay too much. you don't live in the USA so why are you so worried about the tax structure?
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Yet another homeland-Yank ignorant about FATCA.

The US is the only country on earth that taxes its nationals if they live abroad! Thus they pay their taxes in the nation in which they reside AND in the US (if their income is above $100K a year) ...
 
Lafayette said:
Yet another homeland-Yank ignorant about FATCA.

The US is the only country on earth that taxes its nationals if they live abroad! Thus they pay their taxes in the nation in which they reside AND in the US (if their income is above $100K a year) ...
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I oppose income tax no matter where an American citizen lives
 
Lafayette said:
Yet another homeland-Yank ignorant about FATCA.

The US is the only country on earth that taxes its nationals if they live abroad! Thus they pay their taxes in the nation in which they reside AND in the US (if their income is above $100K a year) ...
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and you can write off any tax that you pay to another country.
so you can stop screaming at the sky.
 
Again, Communists like lafayette want to obliterate the "evuul rich" with a 100% tax rate to fund worthless social "programs" that kill any work ethic and entrapeneurial spirit. Basically, desiring for everyone to be totally dependent on the government.
 
Bassman said:
Again, Communists like lafayette want to obliterate the "evuul rich" with a 100% tax rate to fund worthless social "programs" that kill any work ethic and entrapeneurial spirit. Basically, desiring for everyone to be totally dependent on the government.
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All these programs are only "useless" if they apply to anyone else. When our patriotic freedom lovers come to realize they themselves are the government moochers, it's totally useful.

medicare.jpg medicare2.jpg

 
Lafayette said:
Let's reinstitute "real" taxation at 92% (as it was before 1963) and see how many fat-cats jump ship with their billions. Shall we?

Think they'll fly-off to tax-havens like Bermuda or the Cayman Islands? Good riddance! The Replicant Party will sink without their money. (So, of course, that won't happen. Even with higher tax-rates, they will live very comfortably in the US. It's in Estate Taxation that the government gains back real fortunes, obtained due to the lack of real-taxation in the past!

Then we'll use the money gained from Enhanced Estate Tax-Revenue for some badly needed national services, two of which come to mind: National Healthcare Insurance and Free Tertiary Education ... !



Since when did smarts have anything to do with taxation? It's a game, is it?

The purpose of taxation is to level the playing field. As it stands now, the playing field looks like the two graphics I put in the initiating comment on this forum.

Anybody who does not recognize the lack of fairness needs his head examined ...



We have already some of the lowest tax rates (as a percentage of GDP) comparable internationally:
3.1.4-figure1.png


Just how much more do you want to give the FatCats on a free-ride from real taxation ... ?
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On your deceptive chart, what taxes are included in the taxes measured? In the US, we have various levels of taxation that rest on people because they live in a particular place. Your prescription would move us to a higher point on the chart you present.

You assert that the purpose of taxation is to "level the playing field? That's insane. The purpose of the tax system is to collect taxes. Can you link to a source that supports your delusion?

Out of curiosity, do you know what the EFFECTIVE tax rate was when the rate was at the 92% level you site?

I have a feeling you don't. I have a feeling you don't even know why this is important.

Why is it that Liberals think that raising taxes on cigarettes will decrease the number of cigarettes, but can't seem to grasp that raising taxes on rich people will decrease the number of rich people.

Liberals have many cognitive disconnects. This is just one more.

Incidentally, the actual wealth held by the top 1% in the US is about 5.5 Trillion dollars. Given the spending of the rest of the people, this would pay for about a year and a half of our federal outlays.

Do you propose stripping this wealth entirely? What happens next year when we need them to pay for 43% of the tax burden again? Where will we get that money in the future? When the plans to strip their wealth are made known to them, do you expect them to just sit back and let it happen?

You are proposing that the US be turned into Venezuela.

I love the class envy hatred constantly spewing from Liberals. Is there any economic position or plan of any Liberal that is NOT based on some form of hatred?
 
Helix said:
JFK's proposed tax cut was warranted, as the top rates were much too high; a carryover from WWII marginal rates. the top marginal rate when Reagan cut taxes was 70 percent, which was also way too much. another difference between now and the more equitable wealth distribution of the mid 20th century is that unions have been gutted. the depressing part is that even if we could restore unions, technology could probably render them useless for many jobs, and probably will anyway even without unions. however, the clapping that you hear will be significantly dulled as the idea of guaranteed income begins to gain a foothold.
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The trouble ALWAYS present with the leftwing argument on taxes, is that they never reduce spending. In fact they have the gall to ask how tax cuts will be paid for. Let me clear this up, IT'S THE PEOPLE'S MONEY! Tax cuts don't need to be paid for, spending needs to be paid for; reduce your spending when you have less revenue.
 
I think there should be one low tax rate for all, and no deductions.
 
code1211 said:
You assert that the purpose of taxation is to "level the playing field? That's insane. The purpose of the tax system is to collect taxes. Can you link to a source that supports your delusion?
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Yes, that source is where I live. Here in the European Union that has both a National Health System and Post-secondary Education - both of which are free, gratis and for nothing.

Meaning, easy entry and lo-cost promote the ability of our youth here to obtain the skills necessary for a well-paying job. It also helps them to analyze events lucidly and understand what is happening in both the EU and the rest of the world.

The ability to obtain a post-secondary degree without the barrier of a high-cost has produced this:
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What the above shows is that after a disastrous war, Europe was able to catch-up in terms of skills-levels that has allowed the development of a market-economy of the same level as the victor; that is, the US.

And as regards Healthcare, which is also very lo-cost in Europe, money is not diverted from hi-cost Medical Care into the pockets of its purveyors as is the case in privatized medicine in the US, which is a rip-off (given the more than double the cost of EU healthcare).

code1211 said:
I love the class envy hatred constantly spewing from Liberals. Is there any economic position or plan of any Liberal that is NOT based on some form of hatred?
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Cuckoo logic, and asinine. We are better off in Europe for the above basic reasons, even though Americans are "financially richer" on average.

Generating millionaires is not what makes a country great (except in the eyes of Americans). Assuring that a market economy is fair and equitable - though not equal - is the most honest societal objective of any nation.

It's a shame Americans - fixated on absolute dollar-values ("the higher the better") - don't understand that simple but key concept ...
 
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Lafayette said:


Yes, that source is where I live. Here in the European Union that has both a National Health System and Post-secondary Education - both of which are free, gratis and for nothing.

Meaning, easy entry and lo-cost promote the ability of our youth here to obtain the skills necessary for a well-paying job. It also helps them to analyze events lucidly and understand what is happening in both the EU and the rest of the world.

The ability to obtain a post-secondary degree without the barrier of a high-cost has produced this:
5.jpg


What the above shows is that after a disastrous war, Europe was able to catch-up in terms of skills-levels that has allowed the development of a market-economy of the same level as the victor; that is, the US.

And as regards Healthcare, which is also very lo-cost in Europe, money is not diverted from hi-cost Medical Care into the pockets of its purveyors as is the case in privatized medicine in the US, which is a rip-off (given the more than double the cost of EU healthcare).



Cuckoo logic, and asinine. We are better off in Europe for the above basic reasons, even though Americans are "financially richer" on average.

Generating millionaires is not what makes a country great (except in the eyes of Americans). Assuring that a market economy is fair and equitable - though not equal - is the most honest societal objective of any nation.

It's a shame Americans - fixated on absolute dollar-values ("the higher the better") - don't understand that simple but key concept ...
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Yes, because the US pumped tons of money into Europe after the war, and the same into Japan. Why? To fight the USSR.
 
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