• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why the Trade Deficit Matters

I'm Supposn said:
James972,I'm not discussing tariffs; I'm a proponent of the policy described within Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article.
Click to expand...

An import certificate is just another libcommie name for a tariff tax on the American consumer
 
I'm Supposn said:
Are you contending USA enterprises do not effectively compete among themselves;[/COLOR]
Click to expand...

exactly, any fool knows American cars got better when they had to compete with Japanese cars, for example
 
I'm Supposn said:
Although individual purchasers benefit, a nation’s annual trade deficits AlWAYS “drag” upon their nation’s GDP and numbers of jobs;(i.e. annual trade deficits are always net detrimental to their economies).
Click to expand...

total BS of course since the money Americans save on imports they spend in industries where the goods are competitive and thus stimulate the correct and efficient industries
 
James972 said:
An import certificate is just another libcommie name for a tariff tax on the American consumer
Click to expand...
James972, exporters of USA goods may request and agree, (they would not be required) to have their shipments be assessed and pay the federal fees that defray all federal net IC expenses. Markets pass all net IC costs onto USA purchasers of imported goods. If you consider that a tax rather than a fee, I will not argue the point.
IC policies are more market and less government driven and it they would indirectly but effectively subsidizes their nation's exports. Exporters of USA goods would be market driven to reduce their prices and greater benefit from their increased sales rather than from their IC transactions. Although both tariff and IC policies increase prices paid by their nation's purchasers of imported goods, there are significant differences between the two policies.

Within a universe of infinite colors and shades, you see only black, white, and possibly also red and blue. Those that know better would regret their limitation; you have no need for regrets.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
I'm Supposn said:
Although both tariff and IC policies increase prices paid by their nation's purchasers of imported goods, there are significant differences between the two policies.
Click to expand...

you don't understand, libcommies have 10001 ways to interfere with the efficiency of the free market. And each day they make up more ways to interfere if they cant sell the old ways. Every libcommie has a rationale for his libcommie policies. The net effect is always the same thus our Founders tried to make them all illegal. Why not be honest and give us a list of the all the ways you'd really like to see libcommie govt interfere with the free market.
 
I'm Supposn said:
Within a universe of infinite colors and shades, you see only black, white,
Click to expand...

this is very very true. Since Plato and Aristotle there has only been the choice between freedom and govt. Those lost in the weeds trying to decide which libcommie weeds are best need to step back and take a conceptual look at the picture to see that libcommie weeds are all the same and far removed from the green grass, and all very anti American.
 
Lafayette said:
NYT: Why the Trade Deficit Matters, and What Trump Can Do About It
 - excerpt:



His prescription remedy is a classic non-starter - and yet he understands very well the problem. He just wont admit it.

The jobs that have been lost aren't coming back. They were lost because higher US labor costs pushed them into the far-East, and those without the necessary advanced skills/competencies are being left behind. Worse yet, to obtain those skills companies are obliged to hire foreigners? (You betcha!)

What's happening? The post-secondary schooling costs to obtain the necessary qualifications are too effing expensive. So, our kids or their families are not able to obtain them.

Last count I saw from the Dept. of Education stats, 45% of our secondary-school graduates are not obtaining an advanced degree. Thus guaranteeing them a lifetime of below average individual wage existence (at $54K per year), and incarcerating 14% of them below the Poverty Threshold (at $24K per year for a family of four).

And that's the fault of who? The Democrats, who's last candidate promised free post-secondary education for all families below the $100K earnings threshold?

Yeah, right. We all collectively shot ourselves in the foot on that one! The irony being that it was in those key states of the Electoral College won by Donald Dork that those jobs were most necessary.

Only in America, could that have happened. It's the only country on earth to have warped an honestly democratic presidential election by means of an Electoral College artifice ... !
Click to expand...

Have you considered the possibility that payroll taxes may be to blame? They disproportionately affect small businesses and the middle class has to pay a higher percentage of their income than the top 1%. It's basically a regressive tax.
 
OP article makes plenty of reasonable points, but our current political climate makes just about all of them unattainable. Even with some political will to discuss them, not a one of them is a quick fix.
 
Masterhawk said:
Have you considered the possibility that payroll taxes may be to blame? They disproportionately affect small businesses and the middle class has to pay a higher percentage of their income than the top 1%. It's basically a regressive tax.
Click to expand...

I think the the entire subject of taxation needs revisiting.

Frankly, I am in favor of the EU solution. (Of course, I live here.)

The Value Added Tax is the principle source of tax-revenues in Europe. (And its rates are generally about 20% on all goods and services. It is a tax that is easy to collect and there are no "opt-outs".)

Otoh, I am also for a tax-solution to the awesome Income Disparity in the US - one of the worst of any developed nation. So, I suggest that we think seriously about putting tax-levels back up into the 90% range. Then, we decide at which level they should be set at 100%.

No doubt, we need "incentive" for people to be creative and work hard. But with today's tax-code we are way, way beyond "incentive". It's become pure thievery ...

That ultimate measure alone will stop a lot of people who think "the sky's the limit", and rip-off unacceptable sums of money. That they cannot possible spend - so eventually they pass the undeserved wealth on to their inheritors ...
 
Last edited:
Lafayette said:
I think the the entire subject of taxation needs revisiting.

Frankly, I am in favor of the EU solution. (Of course, I live here.)

The Value Added Tax is the principle source of tax-revenues in Europe. (And its rates are generally about 20% on all goods and services. It is a tax that is easy to collect and there are no "opt-outs".)

Otoh, I am also for a tax-solution to the awesome Income Disparity in the US - one of the worst of any developed nation. So, I suggest that we think seriously about putting tax-levels back up into the 90% range. Then, we decide at which level they should be set at 100%.

No doubt, we need "incentive" for people to be creative and work hard. But with today's tax-code we are way, way beyond "incentive". It's become pure thievery ...

That ultimate measure alone will stop a lot of people who think "the sky's the limit", and rip-off unacceptable sums of money. That they cannot possible spend - so eventually they pass the undeserved wealth on to their inheritors ...
Click to expand...

Trade deficits matter and they dont... it all depends on the country in question. The US trade deficit does not matter because it is the global currency. Having a positive trade deficit is not some golden ticket.. Japan has had a positive trade deficit for decades and yet is the most indebted nation on earth in % of GDP. And to have a positive trade deficit, you need something other countries want.. there aint much made in the US that is sellable overseas anymore.

The problem with the US is political and structural. They are basically too boneheaded and stubborn to think outside the box. They do not collect enough taxes because of their hatred of taxes, and yet they demand so many things of the state... just does not add up. The US is the Greece of the world. Would VAT help? Sure.. maybe. Problem is that the average American is a big spender, and usually via debt. But that spending also drives the economy far more than most nations, which is a double edge sword. VAT will increase prices, which if going by European standards.. lower consumption. That will mean no more 2.5+ growth, but far lower growth.. Politically that is suicide. Now it will improve the overall federal economic situation as more taxes will come in to cover the growth deficit,.. expected to go past 1 trillion dollars this year. It will also lower the trade deficit since no one will buy as much, and most goods come from overseas.

But it is not that easy, when most of the country has a hatred of government and taxes and cant get past the ideological constraints of the right wing to find solutions that work.

Another thing to remember.. VAT was put in place in many countries in Europe to curb spending due to an overheating economy.. but then turned into a new revenue of tax for a government that many think are out of control. I come from Denmark, and frankly they have become experts at new taxes and fees to get in any and all amount of revenue and it is getting too much if you ask me. But we also have a very big public sector that needs a lot of money.. the debate is of course, what is needed and what is not needed and that debate has been going on for 50 years.

As for
 
PeteEU said:
Trade deficits matter and they dont... it all depends on the country in question. The US trade deficit does not matter because it is the global currency. Having a positive trade deficit is not some golden ticket.. Japan has had a positive trade deficit for decades and yet is the most indebted nation on earth in % of GDP. And to have a positive trade deficit, you need something other countries want.. there aint much made in the US that is sellable overseas anymore.

The problem with the US is political and structural. They are basically too boneheaded and stubborn to think outside the box. They do not collect enough taxes because of their hatred of taxes, and yet they demand so many things of the state... just does not add up. The US is the Greece of the world. Would VAT help? Sure.. maybe. Problem is that the average American is a big spender, and usually via debt. But that spending also drives the economy far more than most nations, which is a double edge sword. VAT will increase prices, which if going by European standards.. lower consumption. That will mean no more 2.5+ growth, but far lower growth.. Politically that is suicide. Now it will improve the overall federal economic situation as more taxes will come in to cover the growth deficit,.. expected to go past 1 trillion dollars this year. It will also lower the trade deficit since no one will buy as much, and most goods come from overseas.

But it is not that easy, when most of the country has a hatred of government and taxes and cant get past the ideological constraints of the right wing to find solutions that work.

Another thing to remember.. VAT was put in place in many countries in Europe to curb spending due to an overheating economy.. but then turned into a new revenue of tax for a government that many think are out of control. I come from Denmark, and frankly they have become experts at new taxes and fees to get in any and all amount of revenue and it is getting too much if you ask me. But we also have a very big public sector that needs a lot of money.. the debate is of course, what is needed and what is not needed and that debate has been going on for 50 years.

As for
Click to expand...

long winded silly disorganized rant on many subjects. Why not cut the BS and tell us if you are capitalist or socialist and why.
 
Lafayette said:
That ultimate measure alone will stop a lot of people who think "the sky's the limit", and rip-off unacceptable sums of money.
That they cannot possible spend - so eventually they pass the undeserved wealth on to their inheritors ...
Click to expand...

this liberal wants to stop Apple from being our premier most profitable company ??
Apple gets people to wait in long lines so they can be ripped off? People don't usually wait in line to be ripped off.
This liberal wants to tax their money away and give it to the poor to cripple them further? Thats a great solution.

anyone surprised this liberal is scared to death of debate? Ever see a conservative scared to debate?
 
James972 said:
long winded silly disorganized rant on many subjects. Why not cut the BS and tell us if you are capitalist or socialist and why.
Click to expand...

Why would it matter if I was a capitalist or a socialist or both or neither? That is the problem... the labels that people like you have to put everyone in.

To me, you are in denial. The US deficit will punch through 1 trillion dollars soon and that is purely down to so low taxes and so much ability to avoid paying taxes.. especially among the wealthiest.
 
PeteEU said:
Why would it matter if I was a capitalist or a socialist or both or neither? That is the problem... the labels that people like you have to put everyone in.
Click to expand...

why would labels be a problem?? Human history is the battle between freedom and govt. Now you know it too and just have to decide what side you are on: capitalist or socialist.
 
PeteEU said:
To me, you are in denial. The US deficit will punch through 1 trillion dollars soon and that is purely down to so low taxes and so much ability to avoid paying taxes.. especially among the wealthiest.
Click to expand...

actually a trade deficit is caused when other countries don't want to buy our products. It has nothing to do with taxes. Make sense?
 
James972 said:
actually a trade deficit is caused when other countries don't want to buy our products. It has nothing to do with taxes. Make sense?
Click to expand...

Yes.. or when you buy too many foreign products, and that is very relevant to taxes. VAT is one of the ways to prevent too much buying and hence lower the trade deficit. Denmark, my home country, did that in the 1980s.
 
James972 said:
why would labels be a problem?? Human history is the battle between freedom and govt. Now you know it too and just have to decide what side you are on: capitalist or socialist.
Click to expand...

Both. Capitalism is good in some cases, and bad in others. Socialism is good in some cases and bad in others. And it gets really ****ty when capitalism becomes so much "private" that it in fact turns into defacto socialism for the 1%... aka what is happening in the US. But how is this in anyway relevant to the discussion?
 
PeteEU said:
Both. Capitalism is good in some cases, and bad in others. Socialism is good in some cases and bad in others.
Click to expand...

that just means you lack the IQ to know if you are capitalist or socialist. Have you ever heard of East/West Germany? Why not read about it?
 
PeteEU said:
And it gets really ****ty when capitalism becomes so much "private" that it in fact turns into defacto socialism for the 1%... aka what is happening in the US.
Click to expand...

socialism is when govt owns business, no idea what de facto socialism for 1% is???
 
PeteEU said:
But how is this in anyway relevant to the discussion?
Click to expand...

a libsocialist will want govt to manage a trade deficit with taxes. A capitalist will want to manage it by becoming more competitive.
 
PeteEU said:
But it is not that easy, when most of the country has a hatred of government and taxes and cant get past the ideological constraints of the right wing to find solutions that work.
Click to expand...

I have to agree, and that's why I am in this particular forum. Americans are ignorant by-and-large of economic matters. They are infected with a Hollywood bred disease called "BigBucks".

The prevailing thought-process is, "If you have BigBucks, you are better off than everyone else and that's just fine!" But it isn't. What is "fine" is a gradation of Income from bottom-to-top but one that also demonstrates Income Fairness. Which is not happening in America, because Net After-tax Income becomes Wealth, and this is what the sharing of Wealth is in the US.

Not all believe that postulation, however. Unfortunately a silent-majority does hold a religious-belief in such inanities - thinking that the US is a Pioneer Country (blessed by God) that has not yet reached its limits.

Its limits were seen all too ominously when the unfettered Capitalist Greed of the SubPrime Mess brought about the Great Recession. Stoopidly, Congress (owned by the Righteous Right as of 2011) refused Obama any further Stimulus Spending (the key-medicine for all recessions since the Great Depression).

So the US took its own sweet time during which no-jobs-were-created as indicated by the BLS Employment-to-population Ratio at a time also of High Unemployment!:
latest_numbers_LNS12300000_2007_2017_all_period_M12_data.gif


From 2010 to 2014 NO NEW JOBS WERE CREATED IN THE US.

How dumb can a country get?

Dumb enough to be proud of an election-system that allowed the loser of a Popular Vote to become anyway PotUS. If nothing is done to correct this monumental error, history will tell that the demise of America began in 2017 with the contestable election of Donald Dork.

Has America in general lost leave of its (once hailed) good sense? Not all, but many are obviously very naive of the manner in which the Upper-class is manipulating the Middle & Lower-classes ...
 
Last edited:
Lafayette said:
... So the US took its own sweet time during which no-jobs-were-created as indicated by the BLS Employment-to-population Ratio at a time also of High Unemployment!:

From 2010 to 2014 NO NEW JOBS WERE CREATED IN THE US. ...
Click to expand...
Lafayette, ​
your post, ( #46) lacks a link and some vital labels.

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS12300000
Data extracted on: January 31, 2018 (11:50:49 AM)
Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey

Respectfully, Supposn
 
James972 said:
socialism is when govt owns business, no idea what de facto socialism for 1% is???
Click to expand...

So what is it when a handful of people own most of the wealth?

Plus there is only one place on earth where government owns all business.. North Korea.
 
James972 said:
a libsocialist will want govt to manage a trade deficit with taxes. A capitalist will want to manage it by becoming more competitive.
Click to expand...

LOL what a load of bull****.

Capitalists CANT become more competitive without the following.. lowering costs.. which means going towards slave labour or robotics... or hurt the competition with violence, extra costs aka taxes or damage... we have seen this before when Standard Oil became "more competitive" via such methods.
 
James972 said:
that just means you lack the IQ to know if you are capitalist or socialist. Have you ever heard of East/West Germany? Why not read about it?
Click to expand...

So you are that boneheaded that you believe you cant be both.. or in the middle? Seriously? And you accuse me of having a low IQ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom