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Thread: H R 115: the "fair tax"

  1. #81
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    Re: H R 115: the "fair tax"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I know the difference. You obviously don't. Payroll taxes to fund Social Security and medicare are paid by everyone who gets a paycheck, regardless of their income level. The money goes into the general fund, just like income taxes do. When you file your taxes, and you've not made enough to pay income taxes, you still don't get your payroll taxes back.
    actually i know perfectly well. i just explained to you how it works and nothing i said was wrong.
    changing the tax structure would not change any of that however it would give working people a better
    leg to stand on.

    evidently you don't approve of that.

  2. #82
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    Re: H R 115: the "fair tax"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Being considered currently in Congress: Opinions?
    Dittohead not!, for another point of view:
    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Supposn View Post
    Jaeger19, I'm pleased that you asked this question.
    Progressive income taxes are not, (as conservatives wish us to believe), all that progressive. Due to the waivers, exceptions, and exclusions or reductions of tax rates upon favored classes of taxpayers or income sources, the character of our federal individual income tax system's progressive tax rates are less progressive than otherwise and less equitable among income tax payers.

    I'm among those believing on that Fair-tax proponents are correct, in aggregate, wealthier individuals would be subject to as much or more net taxes if any proportion of our current progressive income tax system were transformed to a sales tax.

    In my opinion, what's problematic are:
    (1) I doubt the U.S. Congress would enact and in the future retain sufficient Pretax-refunds to compensate the poor that currently are not subject to income taxes.
    (2) I don't believe we can or should attempt to effectively enforce a federal sales tax rate to sufficiently replace all federal revenues due to taxes based upon net incomes, wages, and payrolls, or even upon only individuals' net incomes and wages.
    (3) Most Fair-tax proponents insist on the transformation be accomplished in a single step.

    In my opinion, #3 should not be considered.
    If the federal taxes are incrementally and simultaneously transformed, after one of the incremental steps, sales tax will approach an unacceptable rate and further increases will not be enacted.
    If I'm incorrect, all federal taxes upon individuals' net incomes and wages would be eliminated. Conceivably, in that case, all enterprises' taxes upon net incomes and payrolls could also be eliminated.

    Respectfully, Supposn

  3. #83
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    Re: H R 115: the "fair tax"

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Supposn View Post
    ... Dittohead not! … In my opinion, what's problematic are:
    (1) I doubt the U.S. Congress would enact and in the future retain sufficient Pretax-refunds to compensate the poor that currently are not subject to income taxes.
    (2) I don't believe we can or should attempt to effectively enforce a federal sales tax rate to sufficiently replace all federal revenues due to taxes based upon net incomes, wages, and payrolls, or even upon only individuals' net incomes and wages.
    (3) Most Fair-tax proponents insist on the transformation be accomplished in a single step. ...
    ... In my opinion, #3 should not be considered. If the federal taxes are incrementally and simultaneously transformed, after one of the incremental steps, sales tax will approach an unacceptable rate and further increases will not be enacted. ... If I'm incorrect, all federal taxes upon individuals' net incomes and wages would be eliminated. ...
    Regarding (1), monthly pretax-refunds, (i.e. “prebates”): To the extent that federal revenue derived from taxes directly levied upon wages, (i.e. FICA levied upon employees) are replaced by a general sales tax, “prebates” should only be considered for persons receiving public assistances that are not effectively subject to cost of living adjustments.

    Respectfully, Supposn
    Last edited by I'm Supposn; 07-13-19 at 03:11 PM.

  4. #84
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    Re: H R 115: the "fair tax"

    A suggested plan for incrementally transforming federal individual income taxes to a sales tax system:
    Income brackets for individuals' taxes should be annually cost of living adjusted.

    Each year, upon advice from the Congressional Budget Office, the Federal Reserve Board, the U.S. Congress shall annually determine:
    What portion of the then lowest taxable income bracket or brackets shall thereafter be no longer subject to taxes upon individuals' incomes.

    What, (if any) modifications shall be enacted regarding manners, amounts, or rates of provisions for augmenting the incomes of our population's poor.

    What if (any) modifications of the federal sales tax rate shall be enacted.

    It's my opinion if the federal taxes are incrementally and simultaneously transformed, after one of the incremental steps, sales tax will approach an unacceptable rate and further such transforming of our tax base will be suspended.
    If I'm incorrect, all federal taxes upon individuals' net incomes and wages would eventually be eliminated. In that case, all federal taxes levied upon enterprises' net incomes and payrolls might also be eliminated.

    Respectfully, Supposn

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    Re: H R 115: the "fair tax"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]Being considered currently in Congress:



    Opinions?
    A transaction tax that takes smaller bites would be better and hit the upper end of the income spectrum harder. Kept under 2% you would be able to fund all the government so long as the government maintained business friendly policies.
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    Re: H R 115: the "fair tax"

    H R 115: the "fair tax":
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    A transaction tax that takes smaller bites would be better and hit the upper end of the income spectrum harder. Kept under 2% you would be able to fund all the government so long as the government maintained business friendly policies.
    PirateMk1, I assume by “transactions”, you're excluding the trade or sale of goods and service products, (which are usually subject to general sales taxes)?
    The questions are if the tax you suggest is politically feasible to pass and enact, and what would be the economic and social consequences of the tax?

    I suppose you do not envision the tax be applied to all government provided services? Some government services for which beneficiaries now are paying government's fees? You're considering transfers of ownership titles, contributions, withdrawal and transfers of funds to what, as applicable or not applicable to the transaction tax?

    I haven't begun considering your proposal which is worthy of this forum's attention. Great Britain's Stamp Act was similar to what you're proposing. You're suggesting since our Revolutionary War, we come around full circle and enact our own transaction act.

    Respectfully, Supposn

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